Eagle92

Not a bad idea. Hopefully units can hook up with a local physician to give out the physicals for free. One of my old units had a physician in the CO who did that. And as a scout one fo the ASMs was a physician and did that aswell.

one thing has hit me, he was part of summer camp staff. Does your camp staff form their own Venturing crew and if so is he a member already? You may be able to go that route as he may already be a Venturer

Hal Yep DEs are paid to raise units and members. There is supposed to be a 12 step process that the DE and the potential CO go through to get a unit started. Follow the process and you will get a good unit with a strong foundation. Problem is you do have DEs who are only concerned about the $ and not about the scouts. instead of doing it right and following the steps, they take shortcuts that result in poor units. And when a new DE comes into the district, he not only has to try and start new units, but also problem solve the failing units, especially if the commissioner corps is little to non exisitant. "ashes to ashes, dust to dust, when volunteers won't the professional must." trust me been there, done that, got the patch. I believe Eagledad has hit it somewhat on the head. You do have a lot of leaders who do not allow the scouts to develope into leaders. I do disagree with the women statement as I've seen men do the same things. The one thing both then men and women had in common were they were CS leaders. FWIW from my experiences with them, they view BS as an extension of CS and carry over their leadership. While some of them eventually get it, usually because of training and coaching from experienced leaders, those starting new units do have a hard time making the transition. Especially since it not always possible to get a boy lead troop from the get for your first duties will be getting everything organized and everyone trained. So it takes soe time, and also some habits need to be broken. As for how to retain older scouts, I do like the concept of the Venture patrol, and wish it was used more. Again from my experience it is used very infrequently. I remember when the Leadership Corps program was being used. Yes we did everything with the troop, but some things were left for the LC to do alone. An example was when the troop went to Vicksburg Military park, the LC did the cross Country trail, while the rest of the troop did the road trail. So I've seen the VP continue that way of doign things. Program is definitely a key to keep older scouts. having clear expectations is another. Working aroudn their schedules ia a third. Trust me that last one can be a pain in the buttocks, especially when you are tyring to plan activities and the 9 scouts in the VP go to 6 different public and private schools with different calandars, but it is doable.

Yep TC at one time were issued an orange backing for their 1 year star. From aug. 1982 until sometime in the 90s I believe, TCs were not considered part of Cub Scouts, but for lack of a better word affiliated with CS. The uniform for both TC and adult partner was the orange t-shirt and hat. When you completed TCs, you were issued first a 3" square TC Graduate patch to be worn as temporary insignia on the CS uniform. Then it morphed into a TC Graduate strip worn under the right pocket. When TCs offically became part of the scouting program, they did away with the orange background, and tenure in TCs counted towards CS tenure.

Please don't tell me that your unit does a preliminary EBOR to see if the Eagle Candidate is ready for the EBOR conducted by the district? I thought that that situation was just a local thing in muy current area as I've never heard of that process before coming NC. That is adding requirements and therefore not authorized. Also it takes away from the SM conference.

Way stars work is that they wear one star with the number of years as a CS. That star andyellow backign can be worn as a Scout, venturer, and adult. Scouts wear a star with a green backing, venturers ( and for those of us old enough Explorers) wear a red backing, and adults wear a light blue backing. Adults have the option of either A. Wearing all their stars throughout their total scouting career, i.e in my case a 3yr. Yellow for CS, 7 yr Green for Scouts, a 1 yr red for Sea Scouts, and 16 yr light blue for adult service, or B wear a 26 year star and light blue. From my experience in supply, it was 50/50 on the number of units giving those out, usually with trops getting them

Emb, Unfortunately not everything in Scouting, is correct, try as they might. if you read the inspection form, dated 2007, it still calls the letter "Venture/Varsity Letter" Also this website http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/03.aspx refers to the award as "Venture/Varsity Letter" and can be worn on the red jac shirt. I know it's wikipedia, so take it witha grain of salt, but they have soem ifno two, that's where i got the info on the 2005 letter. http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Venture_Patrol_Activity_Pins it also points to the inspection sheet. Unfortunately I my copies of the books come from 1996 or older, when I was trying to implement a high adventure program at summer camp that incorporated these awards. Not alot of interest. Also working for supply, those pins were NOT real popular, I don't believe I sold any, just kept the requisite 12 on hand to "be prepared." maybe someone from a scout shop, or has access to the activity books could clear this up.

if memory serves, some of those Star Wars come from Santa Clara, home of the Skywalker ranch and have permission from Lucasfilm. At least that's what I've been told whe I tried to get a Yoda council strip and lodge flap.

I have to agree with Raisinemright. Yes it's great that she's back and should be welcomed to the fold. However a nice cup of coffee with the CM and CC is in order to express your concerns. It may very well be that there is a private matter involved,i.e. illness, death, divorce, loss of job, etc., that is in play and known only to those two folks. I'll give you an example, my old SM was a phenominal leader who was in that position for 24 years. During the 25th year, his mom got gravely ill and died. He took it very hard, and stopped showing up to meetings and activities, and only the CC and the ASM who would replace him knew what was going on. None of the youth, other ASMs, committee members, or parents knew what was really up. However if she did just drop off the face of the Earth with no reasons or without informing the CM or CC, then "Be Prepared" to take over her den as well IF the time comes. Remember we are in this for the boys. Hopefully you will be VERY surprised and she stays.

BW, Are you suggesting that we go to that time honored nautical tradition of impressment to get volunteers :0 I know Sea Scouts need to learn nautical history and such, I did get as far as Ordinary once upon a time and was a Skipper as well, but I don't think national would like us getting folks drunk and signing paperwork, or banging them upside the head and forging their paperwork to get volunteers . Now getting them drunk and having them fill out FOS pledges is a different story, at least in this council As for what I am saying, I think it's obvious from what I posted. some areas have an abundance volunteers, and others don't. As for recruiting, yep it's an art form, and some folks do have it, and others don't. But as you mentioned previously you don't try and recruit everyone, otherwise they will start to avoid you. Part of the challenge is finding the right people. You need to be selective. But at times, you can't find the right person, nor someone willing to become the right person. So you adapt, improvise, and overcome. On a district level, you are right in that part of the problem is that we are not doing a good enough job recruiting volunteers to run events. Part of that problem does lie with the district committee. Part of the problem is also due to lack of guidence from the council level. To use a natautical metaphor, the district has been as sinking ship, with the captain and succeding mates (the various DEs) jumping ship, leaving all the crew (committee members) to fend for themselves. And trust me it's been everyman for themselves. Hopefully the new District chair, who came to us from another council and has lots of experience in the job, will stem the flooding, allows us to make repairs while underway, and achieve our mission of a successful Scouting program.

BW, I thought that the Sea Scouts did away with press gangs to Shanghai "volunteers" around 1915 or so . Seriously though unlike the metro council I grew up in and was first a volunteer in where you could be selective in volunteers, for whatever reason this council is always desparate for volunteers, so 99.9999% volunteers aren't turned away. And in two other councils I was in, they also took all volunteers willing to help out. Maybe it's because the three councils in need of volunteers were mostly rural, I don't know, but that is what all three have in common. I give you an example, when I worked CSDC in my old council, we had 150-200 CS in 15-20 dens. And that was when CS was a four year program. Adults and den chiefs were no problem, and folks were turned away from staff psotitions. We even had female Explorers working a tot lot for the siblings, so overall we had from 180-230 youth and siblings at camp. When I moved to the current council the first go around, I was concerned that only 32 CS were registered with day camp, with a max space of 35 cubs, they were desparate for both adult staff and den chiefs, and that most DEs spent all day working at their CSDC. Since I was the COPE Director that summer, I wasn't around to help. Point is different areas of the country do things a little differently based upon the resources available. Some areas have lots of volunteers beating down the doors to serve, while other areas are desparate for volunteers. Again there is a 99.999999% that a volunteer willing to help WILL be allowed to help. Heck I was at a AOL/Crossover ceremony last nite, and listened to the CM talk to a parent who wants to get more involved, and he was practically all over her encouraging her to register, get trained, etc. I think if their UC had any more adult apps, their new venturing crew adviser got them all prior to the ceremony, she would have been signed up that nite! So this problem isn't just on the district level, but the unit level as well.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

BW, Back in the day when I attended PDL-1, I was taught that you listen to your volunteers on how to improve program since they are closest to our customer base: the youth. I was also taught that if you have a volunteer who has ideas on improving the program, ask them to assist with running the program. It appears that Sctdad is asking for advice to present to the powers that be to improve the event. Knowing him, he also is willing to help with the event to make it the best possible for the boys. Getting back to the ideas I suggested on event improvement, those came from my experiences as both the pro in charge of the CS event (1999) and a volunteer on the committee running the same event (2000), so most of my advice is admisnistrtive. Another key is PROMOTION PROMOTION PROMOTION. I had ad in the council newsletter (when we had one) for the event for 4 months. In my district at least I promoted the event at every RT for 4 months prior to the event, at at every BnG banquet I did an FOS presentation at. Promotion, promotion, promotion.

Oh yes I forgot, never, EVER, forget about the patch, especially with Cub Scouts. TRUST ME on that one had an event that the council's sales rep "left the company" and took all her orders with her. Didn't find out until about a week before the event. Although the company rushed the order after resending the info, we did not get them until after the event. NOT A PRETTY SITE.

Sctdad, So how was Camp Charles this weekend? Folks, here's the reason for the questioning of day camp. The local council Scoutdad and I are in calls this one day event "Cub Day Camp at Camp Charles." this is not to be confused with the traditional week long cub Scout Day Camp that you must have NCS certified directors, get inspected, etc. This is just one day activity for the Cubs. Yep offer suggestions for improvement in writting, and be willing to take up some responsibility as you WILL be asked to help out next year. My goal for next year as a TCDL is to keep my mouth shut for at least 1 year so I can enjoy at least 1 year with the oldest. Then I can work staff at these events. But knowing me, that will be difficult Here are a few ideas I recommend. We did some of these with the council's Cub Family campout in 1999, and doubled attendence in 2000. 1) Start recruiting new leaders for the event NOW, and no you can't use my name as I got to play TCDL next year 2) Start developing a program NOW with activities, equipment needs, etc so that you will know what can be done, who needs what training etc. 3)Try and coordinate with all the different CSDC directors and talk to their staff members about working. 4)Get the OA involved. This you can put put my name into the hat to advise my chapter chief to discuss att eh planning ECM on January 3rd since I've been drafted to be chapter adviser until June when I switch to a pack. I've found Cubbies love the OA ceremony and dance teams. Hope this helps.

If you have have enough girls who are old enough, start an all girl venturing crew. Crews can be all male, all female, or coed, based upon the CO's wishes. yep it gets confusing, especially since venture patrols were orignially called venture crews prior to Venturing splitting from Exploring. Also Venture patrols can earn the Venture letter (used to be known in SD circles as the Varsity/Venture Letter) and earn the Varsity/Venture Activity pins. I know some read the Scouting Article from 2005 that gave an incorrect answer, so check out the 2007 uniform inspection sheet at this link http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf And it's also in the current edition of the handbook. If they haven't changed the requirements for the activity pins since 1995, the requirements for both Varsity Scouts and Boy Scouts in Venture patrols were identical. At least in my neck of the woods way back when, the activity pins were not real popular as no one understood or used these awards.

Don't have the guidelines in front of me, so I can't quote chapter and verse, but if memory serves ANYONE can serve on a BOR except SM, ASMs, and parents. For an EBOR you must have at least 1 council representiative sit on it, usually someone on the district level. Now some districts have an EBOR group that meet every month and their only job is EBORs. Eagle92

Well as i stated before, teh handbook at one time did specify COHs. And as someone else had stated the terminology used currently also has that comma in the, which can mean lots of things. Further the sash can be worn in the dress uniform of coat and tie. Now if it could one time be worn at COHs, can be worn with the dress uniform, which is usually seen at banquest and COHs, and the terminology has a comma in it stating As I stated previously if the youth want to wear the OA sash, fine, but I'ld encourage him to wear the MB sash at it's more personal. Now adults, I encourage them to wear it. There is also another reason why I encourage the OA sash at special events, mostly related to the status my chapter was in, and that is for visibility. For whatever reason few parents, youth, and new leaders new anything about the OA in my neck of the woods. Heck I had one parent rudely "interrogate " me about the OA, and then ask if the Sm new anything about the OA. Funny thing is the SM was a former section officer and Vigil Honor member, yet no one in his troop knew that. Since taking over as Chapter Adviser and encouraging members to wear the sash at special events like Blue and Golds, COHs, and the fall camporee campfire (we do call outs at that time) people are starting to get more interested in the OA. heck we had 32 candidates called out this year (3 times as many the previous year), and one of the guys I taught Swimming MB to told his First Class BOR that the reason he wanted first class was to get into the OA. Anyway I'll be wearing the sash monday nite at a pack meeting since they asked the chapter to do a AOL/Crossover ceremony

Some people say the flap should be enough, but did yo know that some lodges do NOT issue flaps to new members, or member who transfer from other lodges? In my current lodge you must be a member and doe 7 hours of work to get a flap. So new members are out of luck. Also if you transfer into the lodge, you have to wait to the next OA Ordeal to get a flap. Also does anyone find it interesting that the current handbook states that it can be worn in the dress uniform,i.e. grey slacks, white shirt, blue blazer, and tie? Only time I've ever worn this uniform, or seen it worn is Council banquet, District banquet, blue and gold banquets, and COHs. Most people in that uniform are in it a s professionals, with a few council level volunteers every now and then.

Wally, I wish I was back home in Metairie now. How's the troop and Tchoupitoulous District doing? Eagle92(This message has been edited by eagle92)

In reference to wearing both sashes from the other thread, I agree you don't do it. In reference to the Insignia control guide from the other thread, it doesn't tell you when to wear the sash, only how to wear it, so I agree. As for wearing the sash on special occasions, I have to disagree and state that you are wrong. I quoted the handbook, grant you it's an older printing, that stated COHs were appropriate. I also paraphrased the latest statement and asked several questions pertaining to troop COHs and OA sashes in support for wearing the sash. SO why is it wrong to recognize those OA members whom the troop has chosen as rendering outstanding service to the unit at COHs? Again it comes to one thing: interpretation of the wording in the handbook. Personally I would wear the MB sash at the COH as a youth. Adult can wear the sash.

Actually the swastika is an ancient symbol found in many cultures throughout the ages. Most Native American nations stopped using it when Hitler corrupted the symbol for his evil purposes. The Navajo, went to far as to have a written prohibition against this symbol in their artwork, so if you a Navajo item with it, it is pre-WWII.

Shelton, Welcome to the boards. This exact question has been asked before and caused lots, and I do mean lots of controversy. IMHO there are two schools of thought: Yes you can and No you can not. The reason for these two schools of thought is based upon the wording of the OA Book and how it is interpreted. I do not have the most current edition, but I do have my 1987 and 1995 printings easily available. Both 1987 and 1995 printings state the following The sash is worn at all Order of the Arrow functions and special Scouting activities including Courts of Honor. It is not to be worn at troop meetings nor is it to be worn draped or folded over the belt. It should only be worn on occasions when members need to be identified as rendering special services." Again this is from older printings. And this is the basis for the Yes school of thought on this topic. Prior to the 1977 editions of the OA Handbook, which 1987 and 1995 are printings of, the COH terminology was not in the book. I believe the current wording also dropped the COH phrase, but states special occasions when members need to be identified as rendering special services termnology. This leads to my argument for wearing the sash: Didn't the troop elect you into the Order if you are a youth, or committee select you if an adult? If so then isn't it appropriate to wear the sash at COHs since the unit selected you for your service to the troop? And isn't continued service to the troop the primary role of an Arrowman? The answer is yes to all the questions above, so yes wear the sash. I've been honored by my old troop to be an OA member, at a time when election rules were stricter. I've been honored by my old lodge with both the lodge's honor neckerchief, and the Vigil Honor. I wear my sash to COHs, Blue and Gold Banquets, district banquets, and to council banquets as it was something I did not earn, but something I was honored with. (This message has been edited by eagle92)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Does anyone use the troop Program features, or the old Woods Wisdom? That had outlines for instruction as well as games to incorporate into the lesson plans. As for the role of instructor, In my old troop instructors were 1st Class or Above, had served at least one term as a PL, and were elected into the old Leadership Corps. So they were generally the older, expereinced Scouts who had skills. While the Green Bar/ PLC planned the meetings, those folks in the leadership corps had an active part in executing the program.

I have to concur it's the Scout's responsibility to know and meet the requirement's. If something is not right, then HE needs to solve the situation. One of the reasons I hate adult appointed positions is the above reason scouts can get left out of leadership PORs and leaders get blamed for it. And I admit I was breifly an adult in an adult run troop; didn't like the situation, but when you are getting a troop restarted, it sometimes needs a little help. Luckily after about 6-8 months, we got some trained youth to take over. In ref to Scouting again, Whenever I meet a scout I always ask 'when are you gonna get __________?" They reply should be \, and usualy is " I need ____, _______, _____ MBs, and _______ Months for a BOR.? I jokingly give them a rough time, as a form of encouragement to get the ball rolling. It seems to help, especially with those Scouts I bug every time I see them. One Scout did get me though. One of my favorite scouts, who I knew was getting close to Eagle, I was bugging by asking the usual question. He stated "I had my EBOR last nite and am now witing for national to approve. And I all I need to do is wait three months and I got my first palm."(This message has been edited by eagle92)

I was one o0f those who got both First Aid and Em. Prep simultaneously. The summer camp counselor taught both classes, so I went from the FA class in one room, to the EOP class in another room. I had to do that b/c I dodn't pass my swim test and couldn't take the canoeing MB I wanted scheduled to take.