Eagle92

The eagle ring has been around for a while, I remember takign orders for the custom eagle rings, the HS/Eagle Ring (both sets of info on the ring), and the current signet ring. When I sold these rings, ti was usually either a gift from family, friends, troop, or combination thereof for a really nice gift, or someone who wanted to recognize their eagle with HS graduation. Once before WB rings were available, but they were not really popular.

Hopefully someoen from national will look at A) how the last major program change worked out, and B) talk to the folks in the field, i.e. the volunteers, before doign any major reinventing. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George George Santayana

i don't think that they are goign to change anything except how they market to the Latino. As has been shown in other articles and what not, Scouting, once you get past the uniform and language barriers, does have alot in common with the Latino culture.

No I'm talking the week long daycamp in the summer. There were only 32 registered. And that is an all time high if I remember correctly. I remember when I first got here in '98, there were only 12 registered. I was not involved as I was assigned summer camp duties, but that number blew my mind. I'm use to 120+ cub daycamps from my youth. I emailed the steak stealer about whether the CS on Demand program is incouncil only or if out of council packs can take advantage.

40 kids to a station, I wish. last year we only had 32 in attendance total.

If I'm there and the Head Adult singer for the drum is at the ceremony, there is Hopefully once the paperwork comes back form national the head youth singer will be able to stand up as well

Merry Christmas Y'all. May it be a time of peace and joy.

Another idea abut challenges, challenge the cubs not receing the AOL to strive and get the award, using those who are as examples. Once the Webelos crossover and take the Scout Oath and are given loops, book, nekcer, etc. The ceremony team usually recognizes all Eagle Scouts in the audience and challenges the new scouts to climb the trail to Eagle.

Must ditto what shortridge stated PLAN NOW AND RECRUIT. From my limited expereince of being a staffer for 2 years, at the Staff party celebrating the end of day camp,we started planning by exchanging ideas to improve the camp and making plans to come back.

Emb said, Explorer Achievement Award from 1981 to 1995 Your are correct and I forgot about that one. But I will say that the folks I talked to about what challenges Exploring had to offer did not mention that award. The post adviser I talked to said there was nothing, and the national scout shop manager said only Sea Explorers had anything, and it was Quartermaster. I believe that since emphasis on exploring was career oriented these awards were not advertised or really made known, at least in my council. Exploring was a neglected program in New Orleans until they hired an Exploring exec. This was after I aged out.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Replacing Eagle as the top award would definitely kill scouting as it loses brand name and also older Eagle would get very upset with the changes. they might not support the program. It would definately be a PR nightmare. Please do not get me wrong,I understand the value of the Quatermaster, Silver, and Ranger Awards, and highly encourage Venturers to go for them. I also put the awards on par with Eagle Scout, not above it, and not below it. However If I have earned those awards, i would wear the knots and/or medals in this order: Eagle, Quartermaster, Silver, Ranger, since that is their order of precedecne based upon how long the award has been offered.

Barry, Good observation. I don't think that we should kick out the 14 plus year olds as well. they are indeed an example to the younger guys and can be an inspiration to them. But I do think opprotunities should be provided for them, whether it's promoting COPE and HA opportunities at summer camp; jambos, Philmont, and other trips via the council or other troops that have spots open; to doing a few older scout activities without the rest of the troop; to planning something to go on concurrently with the rest of the troop on an outing. I also think that clear resposnibilites, goals, and levels of performance should eb worked out withthe older scouts, SPL, and SM. I also think that the older scouts should be part of the PLC, since they have expereince and are usually troop level leaders: quartmaster, instructor, etc. But on the opposite end if a troop is not meeting the needs of the young man, then a venturing crew may. And he should be encouraged to continue on, especially since one of the things about venturing is supporting the other scouting programs.

BW, You are right, "It is a fine personal accomplishment." And no one is going to tell me it's 'mis inflated,' especially when at the time I earned it, there was no other awards available. Unless you found a sea explorer ship, a very rare unit to find, that used the traditional sea explorer program, which because for the shift in exploring in the 1960s was even rarer to find, and had the opportunity to earn that award, there was NOTHING but Eagle Scout. i acknowledge that Quartermaster, Silver, and Ranger are equally difficult awards to earn and I have praise for anyone who earns them. But I say bullocks to anyone who tries to denigrate Eagle Scout.

Emb, The problem is the brand name "Eagle Scout" has been around since 1910 and has a definitive meaning in our culture. grant you the Sea Scout Quartermaster has been around almost as long, I believe since 1912, but since Sea Scouts are so rare, they don't have the name recognition. Heck I lived on the gulf coast and never heard of Sea Scouts or Quartermaster until we got an adult who was one to be an ASM. Even now all I can find is 1 sea scout ship in my council, And I am on the east coast. Also some Eagles, like myself, were in a period of Scouting where there was no Exploring awards like Ace, Ranger, Silver, etc. So Eagle WAS the highest award readily available. When folks try to, for lack of a better word downplay the Eagle by saying the Venturing Awards are supperior, you will get the "Hell No" response as 40+ new DEs gave the director of venturing during my PDL class. not Trying to downplay any of the awards, but Eagle Scout has been in continual use since 1910, unlike all the other awards. When it appears that people are trying to downplay my and others achievement, especially when none of the other awards were available, you will get defensive.

According to the FAQ the talent release was added b/c several councils asked for it all to be on one form. As for the heioght and weight requirements, it will force alot of units to lose volunteers on activities since my reading of the language is that it is not limited to HA activities, but any scout activity with and hospital more than 30 minutes away. You do have some scout camps that do not meet the 30 minute rule, heck it took me 45 to drive folks to the hospital at one camp I worked at.

Gcan, My OA chapter has several different AOL/Crossover ceremonies that we do depending upon what the unit wants, and who is available(try having 3 unit AOL/Crossovers in the same nite!). So ask what the local OA chapter can do for you. Cubs love the "Indians." As for what to give, I've seen plagues in the shape of the AOL award with their name, pack, and date. I've seen arrows made with stone heads and hand painted imitation eagle feathers with bands corresponding to the ranks earned, their name, and pack number. Thinking about it, I am losing track of all things I've seen. Most important thing is make the ceremony memorable for the youth receiving the award. Also make is inspiring for those cubs still in the pack so they want to get the AOL. good luck

Sorry BW, but it can't be the SMs. I had a WB trained SM of 25 years. At one point early in my scouting career, a patrol hike without adults was OK. Later on we needed an adult. Same exact hike, just some timing differences to make it shorter. Needed an adult. Also when I was with the Leadership Corps, the older scout patrol at the time, we couldn't do hikes without an adult. Yep couldn't do the Vicksaburg cross country hike unless an adult was with us. Also couldn't do the two road hikes at Vicksburg without an adult, and I can go on. Also can you show me where in the current training syllabi where it says scouts can go on patrol events without adults? I honestly don't remember reading that, but I know you should always have 2 deep leadership.

Well the weight limits are an incentive for me to maintain my weight. Ever since my accident I've been in the 230+ catagory and now borderline on this chart. One thing I do hope: for national events there can be waivers. I met a leader who was "overweight" by all these height/weight charts. Guy was a PT monger, always working out, and every year had to get a weight waiver b/c his BMI was extremely low.

I've been thinking about this issue, and I think it's come done to two things 1)the dumbing down of our education system and 2) the fear of lawsuits. Let's face if you compare books from 40 or 50 years ago, they were written at a higher level. Just read an old Fieldbook, or Sea Scout manual and compare them to today's. While not as dumbed down as some things they still have been affected. Heck it's been mentioned that in the 1970s national deliberately dumbed down the program to #1 get more youth involved and 2) make Eagle a 13-14 year old award. Also look at curricula from the 50s and 60s and compare the same grade level and you will notice it as well. Some if this is due to educational theories and what not. Heck one school of thought states that you are not truly an adult until around age 25 because your brain is still developing, I personally think that a bunch of bullkicky, and an insult, especially to our men and women serving in the military who are in the 18-15 bracket. It's proven fact that if you have high expectations, folks will do their best to meet them. But it seems that standards are falling. Just look at Philadelphia which has just decreed that no one will receive a grade lower than a 50 since it hurts self esteem. So if you lower expectations, boys will not perform and get bored. In reference to lawsuits, why do you think the G2SS came about. I remember as a scout in the 80s building 30' pioneering towers as well as having a 20' tripod and 10' tripod with a line attached to them for a bosun's chair event at scout show. We used common sense and had no accidents. Cubbies loved it and we had people waiting inline all day. for the ride. Nowadays you can't have anything over 6' i bleive without having a COPE director certify it. I remember taking my patrol for a hike early in my scout career and having no problem. A few years later, I tried to do the same thing, and I needed an adult to accompany the patrol for insurance reasons I was told. I personally believe that if a unit is having trouble with older scouts, SPL and SM should sit down with them, assign them some duties with clear objectives and responsibilities. Give them full authority to do what they need, within reason of course. Since they would then be troop leaders, have them comeup with ideas to do separate activities at a few troop functions throughout the year. Ok my $.02 worth

From my limited experience working at two international scout campsites in the UK, programs vary greatly. I know of a Belgian group of scouts who were supposed to go on a bike tour of England with only two leaders, both of whom aged out of the program. unfotunately the follow up van broke down and they stayedif memory serves Duke of Edinburgh (sp) Award (DofE) that the UK offers requires scouts to go it alone with out adults. Don't know about the Irish Explorer Belt Award, but beleive a similar requirement exists. I worked with three Finns, ages 16, 17, and 18. The 16 YO came over to the UK by herself. the 17 and 18 YOs were brothers, so they came together. But still all three cam unaccompanied by adults. It's been my experience that fewer rules and regs exist in other countries compared to the BSA. YPT, SSD`,safety afloat, etc don't exist as people are expected tp use common sense. Scouts do act more independently, and my favorite quote comes from a patch that shows a leader with hands in pockets shrugging and says " don't ask me I'm only a leader."

FWIW, I'm going to be the "new" TC DL that was mentioned. With the exception of BALOO and OWL, I've been trained already as a cub leader under the old Cub Basic Leader Training. I know the program and training has changed some, but I have been keeping current with the changes. I am also trying to get some refresher training since I haven't used those Cub Leader skills in a very long time. Trust me I know training is important, having been a training chair in the past. So that's why training was exempted as training is a given. I just wanted some ideas on what to prep for and get ready to do. What brought up the conversation is that my district does not have a training chair at the moment. I have a feeling that once I step down as OA chapter adviser in march, I'll be asked to do training again, with an emphasis on Cub training because no new cub leaders have undergone training yet except for the online stuff. With no DE, and no council newsletter to inform us of training dates in other districts, it is challenging for the new folks. And don't get me started about RT as only ONE PERSON showed up for CSRT this month. yes we have some challenges. So another reason I wanted to know about additional resources is so that I could get them and share them when I do become training chair again. heck even if I am not chair, I will 99.99999% likely be asked to staff the training, been asked to already and had to turn sown b/c of OA obligations, and I want to be prepared. So here's what I got #1 TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING #2 Baloo's Bugle #3 Show no fear #4 Drink lots of bug juice. #5 Remember sometimes adults don't play nice with each other. #6 Have FUN!! #7 It's for the scouts. #8 Ask others (parents) to do things to help. #9 Boys will be boys. #10 be flexible #11 alternate activities #12 TC Den Rules that they make #13 Denner and AD #14 KISMIF #15 Roundatbles, (Gotta get that one going) #16 Program helps (I advised every new leader to get a copy when I worked supply and was ALWAYS told they are great and thanked for the advice at sometime during the year) #17 Boy's Life, ( gonna have to steal my son's copy ) #18 Den Newsletter #19 coordinate activities with monthly themes, i.e. Fire station with Fire safety month, etc. Again anything and everything is welcomed in the form of advice. Also stupid question but here it goes: I know when I was an ASM way back when SCOUTING Magazine had some program helps in them. Ok I admit I didn't use them as the SPL and PLC handled all that, but since getting on the district level I haven't seen the inserts. Do they still place the inserts for unit serving leaders?

BW, I sent you a PM on the stats situation. TRUST ME on this one.

One misinformed statement from BSA in reference to SSN. It is against the FEDERAL Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) to deny anyone in an emergency situation medical help, irregardless of citizenship status, insurance status, or ability to pay. So it is NOT required by state laws to have the SSN. federal laws supersede state laws.

basement, Sorry to hear that about the pack, but can understand. Sounds like they have issues, good luck in finding a new pack.

BW, While numbers can be an effective way to measure a program, they can also be played with, especially by pros who are in it only for the money. So some care does need to be taken with them. Trust me on that one. EMB In reference to yours idea on what other associations do, didn't the BSA did that in the 40s and 50s with Exploring? Sorry I don't knwo as much as I should on that period, but maybe someone with someknowledge could enlighten us on how it worked. Now in referecne to older scouts and program, I can tell you about my expereince. At fourteen I went to a NSJ and did a 50 Miler in Canada. After that trip, local campouts didn't really compare, but I did attend a few campouts until 16. Once I was old enough to work, I was busting my buttocks to support myself, so most weekends I was not able to camp. I also didn't go to summer camp as I needed to work and support myself. The way my job worked, if I had to work in two week increments, so if I miss one week, I had to miss a second. Not an option. Now attending meetings was a different story. It was expected of me to attend and teach the skills I knew to the younger guys. I was given specific tasks, given reasonable objectives, and was left to my own resources. It worked out well. Againthe way I see it, the older scouts can still be active with a troop. They need clear responsibilities, clear goals, and expectations. And yes soemtimes they need to do a few things with just the older guys. The few trips I did go on after Jambo until I started were ones in which the Leadership Corps had special activities going on while the rest of the troop did their thing. usually these were hiking campouts that the older guys did the more difficult trails on, or combined multiple easy trails on.