Eagle92

Yes it is the volunteers who run programs, but the pros can provide the push that is needed to get something going. Best example is my current SE. I'd call him a "program freak" because he saw a problem with our council's Cub Scout programing, i.e. lack of it on the council level, and has nudged and pushed volunteers to resurrect a Cub Scout outdoor committee, and we now have 2 council level cub family camp outs every year. Unlike the pros I worked for, he actually comes to events to see what is going on. Another example is that he saw a council camp not being maintained as it should. Well he pushed and nudged the OA to have an Ordeal at the camp instead of just a work day that only get 2-3 chapters at the camp. I will say he did tick off some folks doing that. BUT the camp is a heck of a lot better than it was. BTW, remember that really severe cold weather a few years back? it was the result of two events that caused Hell to freeze over. #1 the Saints winning the Super Bowl ( WHO DAT!) and #2 an SE who actually spent an Ordeal weekend doing cheerful service. And yes I got the photos to prove it.

AM, In addition to the above, I have met two pros who do not want LFL in their council b/c it isn't "traditional scouting." They wanted to keep the in school scouting units. On another note, I converted 2 "in school Scouting" units to LFL, and got the materials for them. If memory serves, old age ya know , the materials were very good and I liked it.

2nd, The challenge is this. BP made the necker a uniform item b/c it does help Scouts to "Be Prepared" b/c of its many uses. You go anywhere in the world and, with the exception of the BSA, the necker is 1 of 2 items that IDs you as a scout if you have uniform shirt on. The other item is the World Crest. BUT as others have stated, the practice of wearing a necker in a T-shirt, or even without a shirt at all is a very common practice. I still have my '95 WSJ stamp that shows a scout in a necker and Smokey Bear.

Actually pros get reputations. Some are known as "program folks" who can help develop programs. Others are known as "memberbship folks" who know how to recruit folks. Some are known as "money folks" because they are good at the fundraising. It's my understanding that when a SE vacancy occurs, the needs of the council do play a role and a group of people who have reps in that area are forwarded to the council committee for selection. I wish I could forget the last category that people get a rep in, and that is "IDIOTS" to put it extremely mildly. i worked for 2 pros in this category.

Here's what I've been told by various folks about LFL. 1) It came about from the "in-school Scouting programs" where BSA was trying to get schools to use Scouting to instill values and character development. 2)One reason for it's creation was to allow girls into the program. 3) another reason was to allow government agencies like schools to use it without the atheism issue. 4) Exploring become part of it after a lawsuit against a police department CO was lost by the PD.

If my COR actually enforces the pack's by laws which state that the necker is worn under the open collar, and says that I can no longer wear the proper pre-1972 way of over a tucked under collar then I will only have one alternative to do... ... CUT OFF THE "ELVIS COLLAR!"

yep it would help if council training records are up to date. Once upon a time I had a very experienced and trained leader listed as "untrained." Very ticked off he made the comment, "Well I guess i shouldn't have taught my class at PTC." Also it is aggrevating to keep seeing the names of leaders and youth that you have dropped 1,2,3 times already keep reappearing. Also frustrating is missing the leaders who have submitted 4 applications and YPT card copies over the previous 4 years to get on the charter. Or the leader is listed in the incorrect position. Or worse the scouts who either are not listed on the charter or have the wrong rank listed. Kinda sad that someone going for Eagle is still listed as a First Class Scout despite advancement reports being turned in, and corretions to the charters being turned int.

Since 1972, units can wear a necker under an open collar, or as James E. West stated was the correct way, over a tucked under collar. Or they don't need a necker, which surprises a lot of foreign scouts who visit.

AM, At NCS for CS day camp, the literature lists a "camp uniform" consisting only the CSDC, or other scouting, t-shirt. And everyone is allowed to salute in it.

Exactly what happened. 2 corpsmen went to the wilderness area of the reservation and were goofing off. Now HMMWVs are banned from camp.

And let's not forget the Marines. My old council couldn't hold they their annual encampment with 10K+ participants without help from the 4th Marine Division. 4MarDiv would also TDY folks for our summer camp staff. GREAT HELP. An aside: did you know it is possible to flip a HMMWV over?

To quote the 9th Doctor, "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!" Get a copy of the 3rd Edition SMHB, both volumes, and implement the Jr leader training in it, i.e taking your PLC on weekends separate from the troop and model the behavior.

I want to say it's a "woven sew on" typical of European patches.

2nd Class, You got it backwards. Field Uniform is the tan and green (Boy Scouts and Webelos using BS option), all blue (all Cubs including Webelos), and green and grey (Venturing). The current Activity Uniform is scout related t-shirt or polo, belt, shorts or pants, and socks. From 1989-98, the Activity Uniform was khaki shorts and a colored polo shirt based upon what you were ( red for Boy Scouts, maroon for Boy Scouts in what was called a venture crew, now a venture patrol, and khaki for Varsity) No polos for Exploring, and eventually a blue polo for Cub leaders came about.

Don't know if it is in this thread or another one, but at 1 time OA relaxed when and what you could wear the OA sash with. It was in the mid to late 1980s, I know I could wear mine at COH per the OAHB at the time, and the sash wasn;t restricted to just the field uniforms and those performing in ceremonial attire, but could be worn with the dress, aka professional, uniform of grey pants, white shirt, "barber shop" tie, and blue blazer with insignia.

Base, a few comments from a former pro. 1) It can take longer than a year to get things going. A new pro needs to see what is going on and get a feel for things before making changes. TRUST ME, someone coming and trying to change things right away, even if they are the way things are suppose to be, WILL tick off someone. When I came into my district, it was a mess. I tried to change things to get them the way things are suppose to be and I ran into some opposition, not only from my bosses but also the volunteers. Not as bad as a friend who had some volunteers come to his door and threaten to give him a butt kicking, but I did have some nasty "discussions" and a very nasty letter left on my door. An aside. DO NOT MESS WITH RECON MARINES (emphasis). Friend responded to threat by saying, "I haven't had a good [butt] kicking in years." 2) If you really want a good program event, it will take a year of planning. I know the CSDC I use to work for began planning for the next year after the campers left. 3) While SEs do have a lot of power, the committee can still hold you back. On a district level, I know of district committees that have 1, 2 people max form the cub scout side of things, and everyone else is Boy Scout, Venturing, or both. Tring to add district Cub activities is mixed, sometimes easy, sometimes not. But bet your bottom dollar if a CS event gets scheduled and the Boy Scouts want the weekend, all kind of howls of protest will occur. 5) Look at council level programing to see change.

Only time I have run into a camp commissioner, I can say in all honesty that he was the most knowledgeable, hardest working, enthusiastic, motivated staffer. Did I mention the commissioner was me GK hit spot on

This link may help, but you may need to have a translator. http://www.prscouting.com/

got a link to the pic?

I can tell you from first hand expereince, albeit from an OA and CSDC roles, that it is VERY hard for someone to just step down and let the new person do their job. If it wasn't for A) my wife telling me "you're not in charge anymore, you need to focus on (my now Tiger)," as well as B) my new addiction: model trains, I don't think I could have controlled myself from interfering with the new PD for CSDC. OA stuff was easier as A) I was burning out and B)I had to focus on my now Webelos who was a Tiger. Again if it wasn't for a new POR and the amount of time a TCDL entails, again I probably would have butted in. 2Cub gives some great advice, have a plan an present it to everyone so that A) they know what you plan to do ahead of time and B) you can get feelers out as to whether or not you will have support to implement the changes. Be advised, it aint easy becoming youth led. Sometimes it will look like Chinese fire drills. Patrol method isn't pretty, especially when starting out. BUT DANG DOES IT WORK

Almost forgot something. One year my camp was thinking of a HA program for the following year. Turnout that week of camp was low so we didn't need any of the CITs, and a few staffers. Someone came up with the idea of using the CITs as "guinea pigs" to test out the proposed HA program. So they did the HA program gratis and had a blast. Anything to say "thank you" and keep them pumped is the way to go.

Yep it's bad in some locales, and the telecommunications companies don't help. I have friends who had begged for service and the companies essentially said not enough users to warrant the upgrade. Several cities in similar situations, where part of their communities didn't have high speed internet, decided to create their own internet companies. What's cool withmy city is that they focused the infrastructure in the high need areas, after government offices of course, then moved to the areas that did have access to high speed internet. They were so successful, and the prices so good, that people were demanding that they speed up the infrastructure process so they could get the service. The city had several sets of goals, including a 12 or 24 month subscriber goal, that they exceeded in 6 months. I was a subscriber, and will be resubscribing shortly, and the service IS that good. Bad part was that they only offered package deals: internet, telephone and cable TV altogether, and you couldn't ala cart it. Which is why I switched. Now they offer a 2 package deal, so I will be going back. The telecommunication companies were so ticked off, specifically Time Warner Cable and Century Link, they got legislature passed to to prevent the city telecommunication companies from expanding outside the city limits and current areas in service. Good news is that to keep subscribers, the big companies have to offer cheap rates, cheaper in fact than other areas.

Skeptic, I'm out in the boonies where in some locales it can take hours, yes HOURS (emph.) to download something because all that is available is dialup. So the majority of the the units still send in the advancement reports for the council to record. Give you an example, at a meeting we were doing YPT online with one person logged in, and everyone else watching the 30 minute video. It took over 4 hours to download the video. I didn't know how bad the advancement records situation was until I became a commissioner this year. Now I'm doing IA, but the advancement person cannot do on her computer b/c of the dialup..

Short gave an EXCELLENT response. Only thing I would add is a "THANK YOU" of some sort, i.e camp mug, extra staff shirt, etc, once they complete their term. I had to send home 2 CITs one year, and 1 the next year. Also one thing once camp does is schedule some time off for the CIT to attend a class and/or have free time.

Probably THE most important position at a camp. Next is the Program Director. I saw an excellent camp with great facilities and a once great staff turn to poodoo because the CD and PD were horrible. Staff moral suffered so bad, someone was sent in to make sure "the staff don't kill (the CD)." And when staff morale suffers, everything suffers. You need someone not only with management, but people and outdoor skills. And to be honest you should have started looking during staff week this summer. As others mentioned, look at college students, teachers, and retirees. Advertise at colleges, heck if a local college has and Outdoor Recreation program, see if you can set it up as an internship, that way they can get paid, time off for "internship related training" i.e. NCS, AND get a grade for working. Saw somwthing like that once, but it was an area director and no the CD.