Eagle92

Well I know that my old council's winter camp focused on bunch of the "paper pushing" MBs that don't require outdoor activity, the Citizenships, Personal Management, Fingerprinting, etc. If a scout was serious enough and started on the prerequisites and extended requirements like the budget in PM, etc, then they could earn the MB that week. otherwise it's a partial.

Lodge, Here how it was explained to me when I worked in supply and based upon the Insignia Control Guide. You can wear the number star and yellow backing for tenure in CS. You can wear the number star and green backing for BS. You can wear the number star and red backign for pre-1998 Exploring/ Venturing. You can wear the the number star and blue backing for Adult Leadership Service only, in conjuntion with the other stars, OR wear the TOTAL TENURE with the Blue backing. In my case i can wear the following a 3 yr star on yellow. a 7 yr. star on green a 1 yr star on red, a 16 yr star on blue OR I can wear a 26yr. star on blue. Now you do the math on the indiviudal stars and it adds up to 27, not 26, because there was one year that I was both an ASM with a troop (adult leader) AND a Sea Explorer (youth). So if you were an adult leader in a troop, you get tenure for adult, and if you are a Venturer at the same time, you get youth tenure as a venturer. Same goes if you have a scout dual registered in a troop and crew. He gets tenure in each individual program at the same time. However TOTAL tenure is not double counted. I personally don't wear the stars as they kept popping off the shirt

I personally think that the CS were too young, and there were risks that the leaders took and may not have been aware of. I've had to assist in rescuing another lifeguard when a group of us did the "polar bear" plunge at work one winter. The water was only in the 40s, it was in New Orleans so it was the coldest we could get, and when one of us jumped in , she went into shock and passed out. the first and only time we were allowed a "polar bear" plunge.

Shortridge and Bob White, Shortridge is correct, in that I am discussing the section Conclave, which is always the same weekend in April, barring when that weekend is Easter, and is set 3 years in advance. District at one time did not have the conflict, but then a new person in charge of the event, scheduled it the same weekend as the conclave. She refused to move it, and every time I went to the district it was "the only open weekend." Fortunately the person who took over from her is active in the OA,(he just got Vigil this year), and changed the date for us. Heck he wanted to go to conclave too.

The problem comes when the fun ones, say a conclave, occur the same weekend as a work event, like a district Webeloree, in which Arrowmen are expected to staff and raise $ for camp improvements via the trading post. Grant you that was a district event, but I believe it was 1 major reason for the downfall of the OA chapter. Luckily after several years of begging to get it change, it happened. ; Sctdad, I'ld talk to both your district chairman AND your good buddy, the steak stealer. The DC represents the interests of the district to the council folks, and that's part of his job. As for the steak stealer, well I bet he's going to get some new responsibilities in reference to program. Had a quick conversation and was WOWED at the stuff that is being planned for the 2009-2010 school year.

Yes that is a problem nationwide, but with good planning it can be minimized. I remember once upon a time the VP of Program took a VERY active role in the planning process, deliberately spreading out activities throughout the year, etc. If any type of double booking did occur, it was usually a district event geared to another segment of the Scouting population. Some volunteers, usually those in multiple units, did have some tough choices to make at times, but overall it was a well oiled machine. that VP was the one who implemented the EXTRAVAGANZA where everyone recieved all the info on the upcoming year. Only problem with the Extravaganza was that it occurred in September, and units really need the council and district calendar in MAY for planning. When she passed away I don't know who took over or what happened. But I do agree the council has the 'cramming " problem. Hopefully things will improve, in spite of the increase in programming that I hear is coming our way. The new SE appears to be a "program freak," and it looks like more activities are headed our way. Don't know the details, But I know that he wants more OA camperships, despite not all the ones we raised last year being used, and 2) it appears he wants the OA even more involved than it is already on the district and council levels. It appears that he wants to utilize ALL of the council's assets, instead of possibly selling them off, and has asked that the OA do the May Ordeal at Camp Charles, with a hint that more programing was on the way for that camp. Trust me I know it's frustrating having to pick which ones to go to. Last year i had to pick between Conclave one weekend or Council camporee the next weekend. Since I was asked to advise the camporee show, the decision was made for me.

Eagledad, I can tell you stories that will make your hair raise. YP and 2 deep leadership protects both the youth and the leaders. I knew one scout with a history of lying that accused a married female leader of making a pass at him. Guess what, the Silver Beaver recipient was thrown out of scouting because when this supposedly happened, everyone was asleep and she was making the rounds to make sure everyone was in their tents. No other leaders accompanied her on the rounds. And how do I know he's a liar, previous to the incident above, I had an incident with the same youth at an OA NOAC n. I was lucky in that I had 2 other adults with me, and 2 youth were with him when we caught him sneaking out the dorms. Try to say I gave him the OK to be out past curfew. Another incident is hearsay, but I take it seriously because I had a nice little chat with the scout shop manager about me not doing the activity anymore. Apparently a long time scouter who took a PT job with the scout shop in another shop was asked to step down after a mother accused the gentleman of inappropriate contact in the scout shop when he put on the brand new CS's neckerchief on him. That's right someone complained of inappropriate contact by putting on a neckerchief. Don't know how that one went, but I and the other scout shop staff were told in no uncertain terms to NEVER put on a neckerchief again. Another incident involved a brand new leader, a scouter who just turned 18 the week before summer camp, who I had to call the SE on because he hit a scout and the mom was ticked. The rest of the story was that the scout was such a problem, the other leaders called the mom to pick him up earlier in the day and she said no. Before they came to see the camp staff to deal with the problem, the new leader was correcting problem scout in front of the troop after he caused another problem. PS ran and started attacking the new leader and the new leader decked PS in self defense. I just followed procedures and let the SE handle the situation. I can go on if you like. Yes the rules are a royal pain in the glutus maximus at times, but there are reasons for them. You would think common sense would reign, but in today's litigious society, you got to CYA(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Ammon And Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or events in which emergency evacuation would take longer than 30 minutes by ground transportation (emphasis added) will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the weight limit as documented at the bottom of this page. Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory Those sentences is causing the commotion. In some parts of the country, like mine, the local summer camp is more than 30 minutes away from a hospital with an ED. In fact two of the camps I've worked at had more than 30 minutes to a hospital. I should know for one of them as I was the "camp ambulance" fro two staff members that needed to go to the hospital. Also some units out west will face this problem on ANY camping trip they go. And let's not forget the last sentence, "Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory

ALLELUIA, ALLELUIA, AAAALLLLLLEEEEEEELLLLLEEEEEEUUUUUUIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Definitely want an OA ceremony, usually recognizing those who have the AOL or are about to get the AOL.

Ok long story short, I need information on what a complete 1950s den mother uniform would consist of, i.e hat insignia, etc. All I have to work on is the 1950s Den Mother's Handbook and that just shows a picture without going into details. So what are some good internet sites and books that may be able to help tell me what the components are.

Yep service is service and it really doesn't matter. We are not in it for self gratification. But when you have parents of scouts who come up to you and don't know what the OA is, that's a problem. Or as the phone call I dealt with last year, a mom who didn't know that her son's SM was not only an OA member, but a Vigil Honor member who was at one time a chapter, lodge, and section officer. there's a problem. That's why I've been pushing the visiblity on the chapter level. Oh and I forgot to mention, we got a chapter picture from the lodge's award banquet in the local newspaper with a brief explanation of what the OA is and the awards we earned.

One thing I forgot to mention, with the community, they don't see us as Scouting's national Honor Society, the OA, they see us as the Boy Scouts. Another reason to wear the sash!

ok i had the opportunity to write something. SR540Beaver In reference to not giving out the flaps, this is a cause of concern for some of us. It is brought up every year and the majority of youth on the ECM want to keep it the way it is. Over the past 2 years, more and more youth are wanting to have an Ordeal Flap, but with nationals new policy of no individual honor flaps, a lot of people are upset, and I think that the vote will be to continue to not issue a flap to Ordeal members as backlash to the new national policy. To encourage Ordeal members to attend inter-lodge functions, we issue conclave, NOAC, Jambo, and this year AC5 flaps, which are authorized for uniform wear. Plus with the 70th anniversary, the lodge issued a special flap to those in attendance at the fall fellowship. Saw one young man sewing the flap on Friday nite. So they can wear flaps, but it's a specialty flap. As to sashes, printings from the mid to late 1970s until the printing before the current one specifically spelled out COHs as an approved event. Plus the current book states that it is authorized for wear with the dress uniform, i.e navy blazer, tie, grat pants, etc. which is usually only seen on pros and council level volunteers. And lets face it 99.99999% of the time if you are in that uniform, you are not doing OA specific duties. And thats where the , comes in. As noted elsewhere on the net, when someone edited the old printing to make the new one, cutting a bunch of pages, there is a comma in the section relating to sashes. It could be poor editing, but who knows. Also if you think about it, the unit honored the scout or scouter, and their primary duty is to the unit. I feel it is only right for the OA members to wear the sash that they were honored by their unit with. Now I agree with many that the MB sash is more appropriate for the youth. But adults should wear the sash. After all they are fulfilling the primary duty of the OA: to the unit. Finally the new policy of no individual honors flaps also supports wearing the sash more often. There were two reason why the lodges Ive been in had individual flaps: 1) Promote achieving Brotherhood, and 2) Recognize honor a person was when not wearing the sash, which prior to the 1970s changes was 90% of the Time. Since the honor recognition is officially the sash, with the lodge flap recognizing the current lodge one is a member of, again I feel it is only right to wear the sash, and that sloppy editing is resulting in the confusion. Shortridge We have changed the program to do more than the traditional patch auction/ cracker barrel. We no have campwide games with chapter vs. chapter after the ceremonies. We moved up the times so that the candidates start earlier, finish earlier, go through the ceremony before dinner, and can fully participate with the chapter at dinner and the camp wide game. After that we have the patch acution and cracker barrel, also moved up in time, and then movie nite. As for staffing events, that has been a problem in the past. Weve had no support from the district folks as they kept scheduling things the same time as OA functions, with my biggest pet peeve being the Webeloree being the same weekend as conclave. That is changing as I am attending the Dis com meetings, more and more adults are becoming aware of and participating in the OA, and the new DisChair is a Vigil Honor member, was horrified that the conflicts were taking place, and mandated the no district event would conflict with an OA event in the future. So far its been good ASM915 Is it possible or even desired to merge the two organizations. I know of local camp organizations merging/ forming OA lodges and all members are automatically made OA members. But again that is a local decision. Scoutldr While the OA was still an experiment, a bunch of them came about. Most merged into the OA, but a few exist independently of the OA, usually the ones with lots of rich alumni. Bob White Yes weve been weak in that area. This year all we did was paint fire hydrants in one of the local communities. If you count AOL/Crossover ceremonies, staffing Webeloree, and staffing the council camporee show as service, then we did OK. Also we have a chapter workday at the camp in our district, not the main camp, and we provided a few members when an emergency arose at that camp. Not many, but it was last minute and a weekday, not weekend. Usually are number 1 service project is being part of the Red Cross Disaster team that runs the emergency shelter. Fortunately our services havent been needed the past few years. Knowing my luck we will be needed next year. Also another service project was participating in and cleaning up the Relay For Life event in the county. Again weve had problems the past 2 years as the local R4L committee moved the event up to the same weekend as the lodges May Ordeal. I keep telling them to put it back to the original weekend and wed be there in a heartbeat. SR540Beaver Ill PM with some of the changes the lodge has done, and the chapter has done. We are not perfect, not by a long shot, and this Chapter Adviser knows he needs to do a better job of letting the youth run the program. Thats my #1 goal until I step down in March: let the youth do more of the work. Its hard, especially when you finally get the youth in charge trained and doing a great job and they leave for college and you lose that experience. Again that is something Im working on. But we did meet the lodge's Quality chapter requirements and won the Fall Fellowship Spirit Award and the 2008 Spirit Award. talking about being flabbergasted, we were only hoping to get the Chief's Award for most improved chapter. WOW what a year. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Folks, Keep the comments coming. It may be a while for me to reply since I'm off today and am dealing with three rambunctious boys who will not give me the time to post a full response. i'm working on it as they let em

Ok so how do some lodges do it. I know my lodge incorporated the First Year Arrowman Award, flaps can only be earned after completing 7 hours of work as a MEMBER (so no flap until you attend another Ordeal, a conclave, jamboree, or NOAC) and changed the schedule to include both work and fellowship the Ordeal weekend. On a chapter level, we want OA sashes visible at all special events,i.e. district banquet, COHs, BnGs, camporee campfire, etc. I know what some people will say, I've posted about this topic already. The OA on the district had a visibility problem with scouts, parents, and some leaders. Now the unit I had some problems with having people interested in the OA has 16 candidates, and people want to be in the OA. Ok who's next. And remember, this is not a safeguarded thread.

BW Sometimes it fun jumping off the cliff, especially if you are "rat running" aka "Australian method' of rappelling down the White Cliffs of Dover DISCLAIMER THIS METHOD OF RAPPELLING IS NOT ALLOWED BY THE BSA. But it was by the Scout Association in the UK Also in reference to NCS, I did the COPE Director course 2 weeks before camp started and a friend missed staff week to go to NCS. And alot of councils were in the same boat. speeglevillemom CSDC is what YOU make of it. Talk to folks, get ideas of the net, and come up with a general, adaptable idea of what you want. You will need to get together with the CD and DE to find out the budget, and tailor your needs and wants to it. keep it active and KISMIF! And Please, PLEASE don't have daily movie time as 1 camp I visited had. the only time they should not be doing something is Lunch, and even then that is the time they plan stuff like skits, songs, etc. Start recruiting people to run events NOW because unlike college kids who are off summers and can work Summer camp, you will need adults who need to plan vacation time. I'm personally praying that my CSDC is not the same week as the Medical Explorers day camp my hospital hosts that my department is responsible for. Also talk to troops, especially those who have DCs or do not have a feeder pack. Working day camp is a requirement for the DC Service Award, and those units without feeder packs will jump at the gun to do recruiting. DCs ARE YOUR FRIENDS At the camp I worked at, we were the ones who actually led the dens and assisted the cubs with their activities. The "DL" usually was a different parent everyday and some had no background in CS other than to be a parent. And yes I recruited a number of cubs into my troop. Promote, promote, PROMOTE. Go to Blue and Golds, Go to RT. GET THE OA INVOLVED! Not only can they be staff, they can help promote it, especially if they incorporate the words "DAY CAMP," "RESIDENT CAMP," and other specifi CS activities into the AOL/Crossover ceremonies. trust me Cubs love the 'Indians" heck one year my chapter gave a Native American dance performance. Ok off the soapbox and let others talk. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

BW, She also stated in a post that she thought she was going to be the CD, until informed otherwise. She was prepared to shoulder the entire burden. You need to read all the posts before criticising someone for stepping up to the plate and trying to improve program. After all we are all in it for the scouts.

Now in reference to the food question, brown bags from home work best. If you do a Webelos overnighter, sorry it's been a while since I worked camp so do not know if it is still done or not, then have the Webelos plan the menu with the aid of the Den Chief. Two things that were done back in the day, besides the overnighter, was 1) 'world's largest sundae" on Friday afternoon where a super long sundae was made for the campers to eat, and 2) staff cook out celebratingh the end of CSDC. This was at the CD's house where we ate hamburgers, hot dogs, and chips and swam in the pool. Just make sure if you swim you follow SSD

BW if you reread the post, she states that she will be attending NCS in Feb. And she offered to help out, so she wasn't "pushed" she jumped As for coming online to get ideas, nothing wrong with that. As some have posted elsewhere this is a virtual campfire. Ideas are exchanged and questioned asked. Heck I've been around for a while, held a bunch of positions, and still ask questions. As my grandpa used to say, "the day you stop learning is the day you die." In addition to NCS, I'ld talk to other CDs and PDs in your council, or if you are close enough the neighboring council. There is a wealth of info out there from NCS, people, and the 'net.

Sorry got called away before completing prior post. Sometimes it take fresh ideas and approaches to get things going. Sometimes it takes one motivated and enthusiastic person to make the changes needed to make a successfult program. And that enthusiasm is contagious. Look for more people who want to make the prgram better and recruit them. Yep you got a lot of work ahead, but when you see the smiles on those Cubs faces, you know you made a difference and all the hard workl will be worth it.

While BW does ask a good question, do not be discouraged. Soemtimes it takes fresh blood and ideas to get somthing. going.

Diogenes, Hope you're right and that LDS units will leave the folks in place for a while. The LDS unit in my district seems to change leadership every year, or sooner, and trying to contact them about district functions like the camporee, roundtables, etc is a giant game of phone tag.

Short, National came out witha policy in Aug 2007 stating that lodge flaps would no longer have membership distinctions, i.e. No more Ordeal, Brotherhood, and Vigil flaps. However our Supreme Chief of the Fire at the time stated that we should exhaust our existing supply of Brotherhood and Vigil Flaps before ordering anymore patches. And we had just ordered a bunch of flaps prior to the national mandate. What I mean by restriction is that you must do 7 hours of work as a MEMBER before getting a flap. So brand new Ordeal members do not get a flap, just the sash, handbook, and OA dangle. This is an issue that coems up every year, and the majority of youth on the ECM like it the way it is. Maybe over time it will change.

An OA knot would be nice. As I mentioned elsewhere, some lodges do have restrictions on their flaps, so not everyone has a flap on their uniform. Also let us not forget our sea scout brethren who are no longer allowed to wear OA flaps on their uniforms. Glad that policy was not around when my OA lodge created the sea base and the attached sea scout ship. Only unit I ever knew of that had all Vigil Honor members as adult leaders, and every single one of us wore the lodge's Vigil flap. (This message has been edited by eagle92)(This message has been edited by eagle92)