Eagle92

Well the online training took me over 2 hours with lots of interruptions, i.e. read stories, feed baby, etc. probably would have finished faster if a) I didn't have the interruptions and b) i didn't use un-scoutlike language on when the thing would end. I thought that the recruiting sim was just part of the training and not the test. As for where they get photos and videos from. A lot of times they use national staff for training photos and some videos,especially if all they are doing is reading a teleprompter. Yep national has a small studio for that purpose, or they did back int he day. When it requires actors, yep they hire them.

I'm a volunteer again, so I don't know what Williams did exactly. But I do know of the challenges on the local level, and can just imagine the ones on the national level. Since the background checks on volunteers and the membership confirmation process ( or whatever it is called) came into being under his watch, I'm going to give him credit for that. Yes we may have lost membership on paper, but I've already stated how I feel about that. To me that is a big plus as a I did have to deal with that issue as a new DE. THAT was the biggest reason I switched to supply. I think Kudu may have a point, not necessarily in having another West as CSE, but in a return to program, i.e. patrol method, activities, etc. I got the reputation of a "program freak" because I am a firm believer in that a quality program will attract people.

Ok I've been wary to get into this conversation since I am a former pro having worked as a DE and Scout shop employee. But here is my $.02 worth. 1. Please remember that all pay in the BSA is pay for performance. Sometimes you have great pros who bust their butts doing their job. I've had friends who left professional scouting and doubled their salaries, and in one case tripled his BSA salary. Two of the folks were recruited by their District chair or Finance chairs to work for the chair's company. So if for me the talent argument is viable. Heck I've had folks question some of the things I've done as a pro when I was younger because most 20 somethings had not had the level of responsibility placed upon them unless they prior military. Are their bad apples in the professional corps, heck yeah. Sometimes they get weeded out. And unfortunately sometimes they get promoted. 2. There is a lot of behind the scenes work that few to no volunteers see when it comes to a pro's job. Lots of meetings, lots of activities, lots of time away from home. one example is the SDE who has been covering my district, his district, and another district. He bought a new car last February and already has over 102,000 miles on it in under 11 months. 3. Because of all the time away from home, there is a lot of stress placed upon families. I've seen more good pros leave the profession because of stress to the family life than I can count. And yes it was one reason why I left the profession. In less than 3 months of marriage, my wife wanted to divorce me becasue of the job, and she dated me while I was a DE and knew what to expect. I've had friends who wives left them, including one guy who was married three times with all ending in divorce. 4) In addition to the family stress, for some there is personal stress. I've seen coworker have a nervous breakdown, and heard about a former co-worker having one. All job related. All the above is related to council folks. My national experience is the following 1) Not everyone working for national is a "commissioned" professional. Commissioned professionals are those who have gone through PDL-1 and have served as DEs, etc. national will hire outside folks who are experts in their field, i.e health and safety, IT, etc. Because of the high demand for some of these jobs in the private sector, BSA deos need to be competitive in pay. 2) National employees do alot of work that is outside of Irving. You got trainers going all over to conduct training. You got division heads and their staff traveling all over to help local council problem solve their challenges. Again there are things that the pros do that few to no volunteers see. But without that hard work, there would be serious problems. Now Sctldr does bring up a good point on membership. After seeing what some of the ethically challenged pros have done, I have always doubted the membership stats. One thing that I am glad that Williams did is institute the verification process. I think that is a very good start to solving challenging membership. Another thing is the background checks, again it insured the safety of our youth and prevents membership issues. I think the current numbers are a more accurate reflection our organization than previous ones. I firmly beleive that you will see membership growth occur, just not in the huge spurts of the past.

At one time WB use to offer continuing ed hours. That was before WB21C. Also Some universities would take it as credit for management courses, but again before WB21C. I have not heard about that being offered withthe new course. If they did that, I may be able to get work to let me off to attend. As for how I described it, that was in my council 10 years ago, so things do change. to bad the other high adventure bases don't offer advacne training.

Annie, No those invitations are NOT sent everyone. In the council I worked for back in the day, the DEs were asked to recommend folks from their district to attend. So from my perspective,an invite was for the outstanding leaders inthe district. Even then, I did not nominate someone for every course available, nor was everyone nominated by the different DEs selected to receive an invite. A few other factors I used to nominate people included, 1) what other training/activities they were doing that summer 2) their economic shape (my neck of the woods has been in economic hard times for a few years now) 3) and would they accept the invite.

My troop took the easy way out. We used the old red and white signal flags with a patrol medallion drawn in the center, a CSP in one corner, and a troop keystone shaped patch in another corner. the flags dated back to when semaphore was still required and those flag had alot of history. No one wanted to retire them, except when the patrol went inactive. I had the privelege of restarting one of the old patrols and we decided to just update out flag as the original flag was getting shoddy.

Sometimes it's a necessary evil. My old camp lost a lot of tree due to logging. Problem was there was a bug infestation and to save any trees, they had to cut a bunch. Something like a 30' or 40' distance between trees. The state forestry service actually came in and dig the marking, colorcoding which trees were safe and whiche had infestations. As for those trees with infestations, it was more like a 100' radius. fortunately ALL the money went back into the camp. new waterfront, a new building or two with more on the way, etc.

Hendrickms24, I can definitely relate to your son in that I did drown and had to have EMS revive me. I was terrified of water over my chest. Long story short, my mom gave me a choice: take swim lessons or quit scouting. I took those lessons and was a pain in the buttocks for the entire first week. I finally got comfortable enough to swim during the second week. i also had to take instructional swim at camp my first summer camp, but that was OK. If i hadn't have taken those swim lessons as an 11yo, I would never have had some of the wonderful experiences tHat i did in scouting. Definitely sign him up for swim lessons, even private ones if you have to. Try to find out who has a good teaching record and has experience dealing with kids like your son. I know that when I taught swimming through the YMCA, I was always getting the challenging kids. As far as advancement, I agree with Lisabob talk to folks before trying to use the alternative requirements. It may take longer, but in the long run it will be a better experience for the scout, and will give him a valuable life skill, swimming, and the confidence to survive a water accident.

Yep BL and Scouting do their best to get proper uniforming, but it isn't always possible. I know of one unit that was fortunate to get their pics in a BL or Scouting article a few years back, sorry can't remember which, from the several units at the event because they were the only ones in proper uniforms.

As a librarian myself, I cannot tell you all of the resources available as I need to do my actual work the rest of the week. It is endless. One thing my district use to do is provide a bound list of all the merit badge counselors in the ditrict to be checked out at the library. This is something we are trying to get redone, and the gentleman whose project it is has lots of connections at the library as his wife works there. SS has just started on some of the things.

Well I just got an email from one lodge that charges $50 for Ordeal candidates. it covers everything that has already mentioned plus the brotherhood sashes for those candidates. yep you heard me, that lodge figured out that by charging $5 extra per candidate, the Brotherhood candidates can go through Brotherhood for free. I guess they see it as an incentive to continue on because they say this method will save folks who are active in the OA $10 the follwoing year.

Check out William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's biography Two Lives of a Hero GGB had access to lots of stuff as Lady BP gave him full access to everythign she had. I believe Tim Jeal also did a bio. Some of Jeal's ideas I don't beleive, and it's been so long since I read it, I cannot really go into details. For I scout I say Hillcourt's the best book

Just had a discussion on this last nite with the other half after being shocked at how people are going overboard and selling ready-to-race PWD cars on ebay. Where's the fun in that? Anyway she suggested using fingernail polish. You can get it in any color, it comes with a fine brush for detail work, and hardens into a smooth coat.

CNY, Welcome back to the fold! FWIW, I'ld try fiding any of yoru old things, book, card, sash, etc. so that you can verify you are ane Arrowman. We had one guy trying to pose not only as an Arrowman, but also as a Vigil Honor Member. When no record of him being Vigil could be found, he said he made a mistake and it was Brotherhood. Again nothing could be found. After asking a few questions that ANY Arrowman would remember, the LA realized he had a poser.

yep emb is right. I know our Ordeals as members are $18. Brotherhood candidate pay more to cover the new sash and Brotherhood lodge flap ( until we run out of them that is). Ordeal candidates do pay more, i don't hawev the figure off the top of my head but about $40-$45 is about right. thast cost covers dues, sash, handbook, and pocket dangle. Also includes a New member packet of information

Gern, France was having major financial problems before this depression started due to socialized healthcare. They actually had researchers exploring the US model of healthcare, i.e. mixed government and private insurance, as a possibility of solvign their economic problems. Also in Canada there are people who want private insurance and sued the Canadian government for the right to have private insurance. It went all the way to the Canadian Supreme Court, which sided witht he plantiffs statting that the Canadian Public Health service is killing folks.

yep once you earn those cords you can wear them on your scout uniform until 18, and venturing uniform until 21. I didn't take mine off until I was 18. Unlike den chief cords, once you earn it you keep them on.

Young American Award. not any have heard of it, but it's very easy to get. I've seen one council give out 100+ of those at a banquet. basically all you do is apply and if accepted you get it. Ther eis also a BSA Know to go with it.

Click, Unless things changed, those at PTC were at PDL2. It used to be that ALL PDL1 courses were in Irving so that the top execs in different areas oriented the new hires. Plus you also toured the HQ building, at talked to the benefits folks, etc, unless you were "THE MAN." I can't remember his name, but his nickname was "THE MAN." This guy was a "retread" in that he started out as a DE moved up to FD or DFS, then went to work for the United Way, where he became a big wig and retired. Along the way he knew and worked with a bunch of the national staff while they were SEs. One of his freinds talked him out of retirement to be an endowment director for his metro council. He got the nickname "THE MAN" when he got pulled out of class to talk to his SE (there really is not supposed to be any contact during the period so you can focus on learning), and was told that the $500K endowment deal he had been working on was completed while he was in training. Also it seemed as if 2/3 of the executive staff who came in for presentations knew him. And When it came time to tour HQ, this guy said see ya, I have a meeting with the finance folks and skipped out the entire day at HQ. Great guy to talk to.

NO EGG CARTONS AND LINT FIRESTARTERS ?!?!?!?!?! i don't know where they are coming from, but I've never had any problems with smells. In addition to lint, I've used sawdust and wood shavings in cartons as well.

I don't know the current process, but when I was a pro it took approx three months from hire before going to Professional Development Level 1 (PDL1)for 2 weeks. During the three months you are supposed to undergo Cub Scout Basic Leader Training, SM Fundamentals, and Explorer Basic Leader training (I told yo it's been a while)If you hadn't taken those three courses you either couldn't go (SMF since an overnite was required) or you had to take them at PDL1 in your spare time (basically the weekend you were off) I lucked out in that All I needed was CSBLT as I did the other two as a volunteer, so I was able tyo get it doen in the three month frame. You were not offically a DE until After PDL1, up until that time you were a " Executive Trainee" and you didn't get your full pay until after PDL1. PDL1 basically covered all the basic of runnign a district: recruiting committee members, running FOS dinners, etc. If your council had the budget, 12 months after PDL1 you went to a week long PDL 2 course. Don't remember the agenda as my council was having some budget issues. Long story short, my PDL2 course was canceled by my council a week before I was supposed to leave. It's important to make PDL2 and PDL3, the third year's course,because promotions are based upon the training completed as well as performance. So you miss training, it puts you back in the scheme of things.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

yep I was one of those DEs who 'got too close to the volunteers." It was very easy to do since #1 they were the best bunch of folks I ever had the pleasure of working with, and #2 I saw some of the internal "challenges" of district membership and did not want to perpetuate that problem. Real interesting situation when at your first RT and you have a list of all your units and when you try to meet all the top unit leaders about a third of them no one has ever heard off.

Eagledad, If I sounded angry or what not, I want to apologize as that was not my intent. My intent was to state that the top level of leadership training for youth has been identical to WB for years. I can't comment on the current programs, I've not been to WB21C yet or worked NYLT, so I don't know what goes one. i was just trying to point out that the two courses were deliberately planned that way. On a lighter note, If the adult staff can get their WB staffer beads, and the program is identical except for the ticket, why not include a ticket, and give WB beads to the youth (This message has been edited by eagle92)

This is a great idea for the pros. Volunteers can express their opinions on www.myscouting.org under the community tab. They do need to register though. Eagledad, Based upon my experiences of going through Brownsea 22 and staffing JLT, these top level scout trainging courses ARE suppose to mimic WB. For the two courses I went through and staffed, all adults either were working on their ticket, went through WB, or staffed WB. All except me. They considered my Brownsea 22 training equivelent to WB, and I got ther job as SPL since I was a "grey area" youth/scouter (registered Sea Explorer youth and ASM). Also one of my youth staffers went through WB a few months later, after turning 18. He told me JLT and WB were identical except for the ticket. In my opinion this idea is reinforced by the decision to award WB staff and SM beads to NYLT adult staffers meeting certain requirements.

Ok the Great Depression is not my forte, WWII and Korean War is, but it is my understanding that Hoover's policies were stop gagging the Depression. FDR came to the presidency because people did not believe Hoover was doing enough. Unfortunately we now know that FDR's policies actually kept the Depression going longer than it should have. Only WWI got us out the Depression. Basically what people want is called KEYNESIAN ECONOMICS. Basically the belief is that government needs to spend money during an economic crisis in order to create jobs. Sounds good in theory, but when government plays around with a free market, it affects multiple areas,sometimes without people realizing how far the effect will be. I think of it as a reverse trickle down effect.