Eagle92

Yep we had a year round patrol competition,and uniform inspection was part of it. Thing about the competition was this: one patrol had to be the winner or no award. leadership Corps was excluded as they were the ones conducting the inspection and they were EXPECTED to set the example. As i scout I remember looking up to those guys and hero worshiping them as they were the epitome of a Scout IMHO. If the scout has been talked to by the scouts and the adults, it's time to 1) talk to the parents and explain to them why it's important, and 2)have the SPL or PL start documenting every time the scout doesn't following directions, hence "OBEDIENT" in the Scout law. That way you have written evidence that he is not ready for the Scout Spirit portion of the advancement, Still have the SM Conference so that you can tell him how to work on it, but don't let anyone sign off on Scout Spirit. In my old troop that was the PL, ASPL or SPL who could sign off on that before Star.

My old troop conducted weekly uniform inspections. It wasn't tucked, you got points taken off for neatness. usually the shirts cam off all together during game time, but once the game was over, SPL enforced the tucked in rule. let the scouts enforce the rules

If memory serves, it wuld take a few days to verify soemone was an Eagle via national. It was run through NESA, and they needed council number (although name and HQ city or state worked), unit and year. If you know anyone with the new NESA book, you may be able to use that. Grant you the book is not 100% correct, I know a young man who is a Lifetime member, but was not listed int he book, but it's also a good authoritative start. "Trust your feelings, Luke" You got a nagging doubt, you do need to act on it.

Unfortunately my lodge and I were victims of a fraudulent leader. We had a guy posing as an Arrowman with lots of "expertise" on Native American culture. When I talked to him about dancing and singing, he didn't know what I was talking about, not I what he was talking about. If you are into Native American Affairs you will know about the various men's dance styles: Straight, Traditional, Grass, Fancy, and Chicken; and the two styles of singing: Northern and Southern. That tipped off my radar. What tipped off the lodge's radar was that not only did he claim to be an Arrowmen, he first claimed to be a Vigil Honor member. He even tried to get Vigil card from national, when the issue was brought to the lodge's attention as no record was found for him. He backed down saying it was a mistake and he was Brotherhood. Again no proof could be found for him, and talking to him he could not answer ANY questions about the OA, questions that any Arrowman, whether active or inactive for 30 years could answer. I know from a lodge standpoint, his fees were returned and the Scout Exec was informed of the situation. I also know that the gentleman is no longer invovled in Scouting. IMO, there needs to be a serious talk with the CC, IH,and UC. If you will lie in one thing, there will be more lies. While I am offended if he didn't earn the religious award, and is wearing it, I do know of folks who have earned it as a CS, but don't remember what exactly they did. I'm one of those. But I do remember what I did for my BS and Sea Explorer religious awards. As for the Eagle knot, that is a restricted item and there is a database than can confirm if he is an eagle or not with some information, ussually the council, troop, and the year of awarding. This ticks me off to no end because I know how much time and energy go into that award. I've seen excellent scouts not get that award because they joined late, or got so involved in HS that they couldn't meet all the requirements. And Don't get me started with WB! Unfortunately with ebay and other web auction sites, you can buy just about anything beads, medals, patches, ad nauseum. very helpful tio the collector, or person who earned soemthing and lost in a fire or hurricane(like me:( ) but also for the poser.

SR, They cannot use anotehr military installation b/c the ACLU et al sued the DOD over the matter. That's why military installations can no longer charter units, nor after the 2010 Jambo host a jambo.

A few ideas 1) have an OA ceremony team dot he ceremony. This is especially good if you have several troops taking in the new scouts. 2) Talk to the SPL and older scouts to see if the troop has or had an induction ceremony and use it. 3) Let your older scouts come up with a meaningful ceremony and let them do it. The best ceremonies IMHO are the ones that the scouts created and participate in. That said here are some of the things I've seen. A) the CM or WDL taking them to the Crossover bridge. Sometimes a gift is given, BSA handbook, shoulder loops, etc. Then SPL or his youth representative takes over and leads them across the bridge. SPL then makes them say the Scout Oath or law after him. Then he and a few other scouts remove their Webelos hats, neckers, slides, tricolors, and blue loops (everythign being placed in the hat), replacing them with the troop necker and slide, green loops, etc. And then a round of applause for the new scouts. Again this is the most commone thing I've seen, but I know that soem troops have a special ceremony for new scouts.

Scoutnut, Yep the committee and leaders need ot have a talk with the CO, but sometimes the "big guns" to help out, and that's when the DE, UC, and District chair may get involved. As a DE I know I had to get involved when a unit asked me to intervene with their CO. The CO was concerned about the Dale case in the SCOTUS lineup at the time. They felt the BSA was going to lose, and were adamant that they did not want gay leaders in the unit, nor working with the youth they were responsible. So instead of a scout troop, they wanted Awana or Royal Rangers instead. even after explaining that THEY are supposed to approve the leaders, they still said no, their decision was already made

Back to where I was, and this is all based upon my experience. Most COs don't care what the troop has and willing give it to the new CO, or another scout troop if the troop is merging. Since they really do not get involved with the troop, they don't really care about the finances and equipment. However I do know of one unit that "sold" all their equipment to another unit for $50. And we're talking brand new equipment because the troop was folding after about 2-3 years. That same unit also distributed all the money in the "scout accounts" to the members, with significant "interested" going to the scouts so that the CO wouldn't try and get the money that they raised on their own. Smart move as when the troop folded, the CO kept the money, about $100-$200 after all expenses and distributions were made. Also a very sore point in my current district are some canoes that a folded troop had that the CO has kept for their youth group. Originally the canoes were donated to the scouts in the district, but to keep the council's hands off the canoes, the folks who organized the donation arranged it so that a troop and its CO owned the canoes, with the stipulation that every unit had access to them. When that troop folded, the church kept the canoes and trailer, since it was legally theirs, and now their church group uses them. plenty of people are upset b/c the church will not allow anyone else to use them.

My old troop changed COs twice within a four year period. The first CO was a Catholic Church that had a large parish originally when the troop started. As the population in the town grew,other churches were built,and the CO's population demographic changed. GWD is lucky that all the CO has done is move you around. Ours not only moved us around, but used our brand new shed as a dart board, causing over $15,000 worth of damage to the shed and equipment. We looked into finding a new CO, found one, and had to get paperwork from the original CO saying that we could keep our unit number, transfer monies, keep equipment (there wasn't much left after the dart board incident), etc. and moved. Lots of paperwork, but with the COs signatures it was OK. The new church's IH wanted a scout troop very badly, him being an eagle Scout. Two to three years later our new CO got a new IH with a very anti-BSA bias. Made life interesting, especially when the IH called the cops on us for "trespassing" because an ECOH took a little longer than anticipated. Luckily the cop that came out didn't realize that the 'trespassers" was the troop since the church owns the troop. He also just happened to be an ASM with the troop. So again the troop committee got all the paperwork filled out, and switched to another CO that wanted us as they already had a pack. We got to keep the unti number a second time, and made 25 years Vet Status when I got Eagle. Couple of things to rememebr about switching COs. 1) you got to get it in writing that you can keep the unit number. Loose the number and you loose tenure towards vet Status. 2)All equipment, money, etc that the unit has legally belongs to the CO. So if they want to keep it they can. Luckily the first CO destroyed most of our stuff, so that wasn's an issue. Ands the second CO had such an anti-BSA bias, they just wanted us out. But I bet if they realized how much money was int he accoutn and that they owned the equipment, they would have kept everything for themselves. More later

Well I guess I've been fortunate in that when I wrote my letter for cit nation, I got a reply with a signature, not a stamp. A few years later, instead of sending a letter to my COH, he actually attended the ECOH and presented me a certificate.

Funny and very appropriate inthta I sent an email to my senators about tax frauds being nominated for cabinet level positions. I got a very nice letter in the mail today from one of them about the issue i wrote about.

pretty good, just a tad bit disorganized. There were multiple groups for the same thing.

In reference to the money. 1) it definately needs to be open for all to see 2) a budget definately needs to be made 3) make it so that TWO SIGNATURES are necessary for the checks, with three non-related people eligible to sign off. TRUST ME ON THAT ONE. Also recruit committee members. The more folks ivolved, the less work there is for everyone.

If supply used the same system whenthe item came out as they did when I worked in supply a few years back, then the cookbook is a "bin item" meaning that it's a freebie from national. I personally think that it would be great to reissue it. To bad they didn't for the Centenary of Scouting 2 years ago, maybe for BSA's centenary next year. On another note Can I get a copy?

First off has both the new SM completed NLE, SM Spec. and IOLS; with the cc completing troop committee training? If not then that is the first step. Second how old are the scouts in your unit? Usually you can get input from the older ones. And if mostly younger scouts, do you think you can get some assistance from thr scouts of a neighboring unit. Third, has any training with the youth taken place? You got to teach them HOW to plan, organize, teach etc. Get them going and they will Not want you to plan things for them. Fourth for your BORs, have htese folks read the advancement guidelines. no BOR is supposed to be an interrogation, even Eagle. I agree than a meeting o the minds is in order. If that doesn't work go up the chain of command.

One thing that was mention that I completely forgot is the OA. getting active in the OA, if a member, can eba supllement to the dullness of the troop. Yes an Arrowman's fiorst responsibility is to the unit, but with so many opportunities out there for Arrowmen, jambo service corps; OA Trail Crew, Ocean Adventure, and Wilderness adventure at the national high adventure bases, European Camp Staff Program; etc. it will allow soem freadom of movement for the older ones. Also OA has a new menoring program out. this allows expereicned scouts and leaders to work with new units. This is another option for the older scouts, with permissionof the SM of course. On we thing I forgot to mention about my old troop's Leadership Corps/Venture Crew/Venture Patrol/Venturing Crew (this general idea goes back a ways)was that while our primary responsibility was to work with the younger guys, we/they did plan separate activities either on our own or within a troop trip. For example, when we did Vicksburg, the troop did one 14 mile trail while the LC did the 12 mile cross country trail. or if that was closed, we did both 14 and 7 mile road trails on our own. We had a separate canoe trip just for the venture crew, venture ASM, and me. And when they started their Venturing crew, they did things on their own 1 per quarter. But the rest of the rime they were with the troop and in essence their own patrol.

Technically speaking, EVERYTHING the unit owns: camp equipment, trailer, canoes, checking account, etc belongs to the charter organization. So in essence you are not giving them anything that they do not already own. that's why BSA doesn't have a policy on units giving money to the CO; the CO OWNS the unit.

Back in the day, they had the Leadeship Corps. This was the patrol for your older scouts who have "been there, done that." In my old troop it consisted of the ASPL (he was also the PL of the LC), troop quartermaster, librarian, historian, instructors etc. To get in, you had to be Star or above, serve 2 terms as a PL, and be elected by the current members. This was the patrol that taught the skills and did a lot of work running the troop. They first changed it to a venture crew, then with venturing coming out, changed it to venture patrol. Having a venture patrol with the older scouts may be the answer. I know that my old troop used this until they decided to create a venturing crew. Both were successful, withthe Venturing crew giving additional challenges and opportunities.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

I have to ditto what others have said. Unless you are a specialty MBC, i.e nuclear science, Vet Med, that has few to no MBC, I would not work with your son. Now if you are the only MBC in the area, I would do something along the following 1) have a small group work on the MB with your son that way no sense of favortism can be exerted. 2) work with your son and have him do all the work, BUT have him present it to some else who for approval. Every unit/distict/ council is different and some will allow the SM or CC to sign off on the MB, others it's the district adavncement chair.

I know that some units budget 1 advance leadership course, and will split the cost among the number of scouters, i.e 1 person gets full ride, 2 get 1/2 paid, etc,

isn't directions for it in the 2nd edition of the field book? If so give me some time.

Also and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but also part of the money national collects from councils also goes towards training the professionals. Now what I would like to know is how much is the compensation for the national CEOs of other non-profits like Girls Scouts, 4-H, Red Cross, etc. I know there is an easy way of doing this online looking at their tax records, they are public records and accessible, but i can't remember the website. This looks like a hit piece on the BSA, and I'm sure opther non-profits will not be looked at.

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOU EAGLE. But I do have one concern, 2 hours for a EBOR? Also the secrecy of teh EBOR concerns me as well. The two hours is definate overkill, and having 'trick questions" is NOT supposed to be part of the EBOR.

Anywhere we can get a list of titles and authors. Curious minds want to knwo.

Gunny, As someone who did it in the past, you're welcome. Oh and SEMPER FI!