Eagle92

Why do they sell them at scout shops? Not all scout shops are run by national. Some are run by local councils and some are local distributorships, i.e. JC Penny, etc. Local councils and distributorships can sell additional items if they want. For example the local distributorship sell precut, unoffical cars in addition to regulation PWD cars. Some councils decide to sell things that they just shouldn't. The you got a few folks at national supply who just don't have a clue. 2 examples of this is the Totin Chit and Whittlin Chit patches that national sells. basically they saw other badge companies makign them, and wnated a peice of the pie. These two items are shaped to go on the right pocket flap, whic is reserved for the CS outdoor award and/or CS Sumemrtime pin, or an OA flap, and nothing else. yet you see these two items.

In reference to the youth, I'ld have a chat with them about how they are living the Scout Oath and Law in their lives, not only in the troop, but in their personal lives as well. Ask they how do they treat their fellow scouts in the patrol and troop. Then use what they say to the situation. I was elected back in the day when you could only put half the eligibles on the ballot, and it took me a little while to get elected. It wasn't becasue I was a bad scout, or not worthy, but becasue there were others in the troop who were MORE worthy of being an Arrowmen. It doesn't matter when you are elected, oncwe a brother, always a brother. In referecne to the adults, a definate cup of coffe and chat needs to occur. This isn't little league where everyone wins. The ideals and putrpose of the OA need to be explained to them, even if they were members as a youth they need a reminder. They need to understand not only the service obligation that OA membership entails, but also some of the fun that OA does and they would be remiss in not allowing the Scouts in their charge to haev the opportunity to partake.

Child protective services reminded of an incident at summer camp. The parents of 1 "scout" DID go on vacation while the "scout" was at camp. The little hellion tour up about $1000 worth of new tents and wrote graffiti on the lifeguard tower with his deodorant. SM said parents would not listen to him and said 'deal with it,' so he asked the CD to handle it. CD called them at approx 9:45PM informed them that they had 12 hours to pick up their son, or he would have him arrested for trespassing and have CPS notified. They picked up junior about 9AM.

JoeBob, As someone who worked at a scout shop and saw what happens to those shirts that had badges 'ironed' on, over a few washes, the patches do come off, and there is a terrible stain on the shirt. Also if you decide to make a shadow box, transfer them to a new shirt, etc the patches will start to fray, one reason why our patches are so popular overseas. further the shirt is ruined and you cannot pass it down to others b/c of the stains. On another note, if it is the tan BS shirt, and you are thinking of throwing it away ;et me know as I'll take the BSA strip to put on my new shirt.

if the DAC is following procedures, it's the actual EBOR.

That's where nicknames, and in the OA Vigil names, come from All in good fun and no harrassing involved. Heck my old lodge even changed a lodge chief's vigil name because he did not like the tranlsation "Fiery-headed Loud Mouth Chief." National reissued the certificate to "Fiery-headed Chief."

I'ld say money for changing the hats every year. I liked it when you only had to deal with 2 caps: a yellow-blue Wolf/Bear hat and an all blue Webelos. As for neckers, it was for ID purposes, at least that was what I was told. It does make sense working council day camp the first day, or at a major council event when you have to divide the cubs into their age groups. As for the slides, when I worked supply I'ld recommend buying two as the CS always seemed to be losing the first one. So I can understand why they created a new slide for each year. Still wish there were only 2: one for CS who are TC to Bear, and one for CS who are Webelos. Now as for the Webelos uniform option that started in 1984: Webelos having the option of wearing the blue CS uniform OR wearing the tan and green BS uniform with CS insignia, the purpose was to SAVE money. Lots of parents complained about having to buy a new shirt, pants, or both afor only 1 year as their cub scout outgrew the blue uniform. The option allowed parents to get the BS uniform if they needed to, or keep them in the CS uniform until crossover. that was the intention. being in that first group able to wear the BS uniform as a CS, I WANTED that BS uniform!(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Concur, but doesn't mean you cannot display it by other means. I have a bunch of my 95 WSJ patches in a nice frame on my Wall in the home office.

As a former pro, I can tell you that some FiDs, DFSs and SEs want you to use the hardnose approach. They want the money and don't care how you get it. That said, I concur that the best approach is to be honest, humble, and informative. Tell the folks WHY it is important. Tell them where the money is going, giving specifics if known, i.e. it costs XYZ amount for a scout to go to camp, yet we charge ABC amount, etc. The DE, or presenter, should be prepared to answer any questions that come up. And if an answer is not known, say so and get back to them with the info. In my experience Scouting sells itself, you don't need to pressure folks to give. One saying I picked from a very experienced fundraiser I use tio end every FOS presentation: "Don't give until it hurts, give until it feels good!"

I haven't looked in the current HB's advancement section in a while, I look it up when I get home to check. If they did take out the BOR's signature part from the requirements, then I would agree that a HB is not needed for advancement, so the BOR should have happened. However if the BOR's signature, or initials, are required for adavancement, then the book would be required for bor since the signature needs to be in the book in order to advance. No book = no signature= no advancement. Not adding requirements, just the way it is. Again I'll double check when I get home.

While not exactly outdoorsy, we did a field trip to Seymour-Johnson AFB in Goldsboro. Although we did encounter some resistance, the PR folks are there only M-F, It helps to have a retired 0-6 in the chapter This year the youth decided to visit Ft. Bragg/ Special Forces museum in Fayetteville, depending upon what we can get ahold of. We also do a pool party in August or Sept to kick off the new school year.

While I think the BOR could have handled it differently, I do agree with the overall premise. The book IS the official record. Let's face it if there are errors with the troop and council's records, that book IS the source they go by. Hence the book is needed for the BOR to sign off. It also places responsibility where it belongs, on the scout. It is his book, his bor, his responsibility. As a scout, the HB was considered part of the uniform, you brought it with you everywhere. When my HB broke in half, I made darn sure I kep copies of the signoff section, just in case. Glad I did as the book went missing on a canoeing trip.

Sctdad, You should have be getting a copy of the lodge's AIA cd-rom I made by he end of the week. Gotta burn more copies and I have a busy Scouting schedule this week with oldest, gotta get ready for a trip to Camp Charles . Do you know what style of regalia you want, i.e. Sioux which is the most common, Tuscarora which is local, or do want Dance Regalia I've seen a cermonialist in Straight Dance regalia, minus the bells. The Cubs loved it and they want more of him. Problm was he was an adult who had to fill in for the chapter team because there were 2 othere ceremonies that nite they were doing. Not enough ceremonialists at this time The CD has general info, but if you want spcifics on Tuscarora, who are part of the Iroquois League, let me know as that info is not on the CD. Toisnot chapter is in the process of getting some made.

I also think that once a quarter is too few and far between. And yes when it comes time for an Eagle BOR, council WILL scrutiniae those records and WILL kick back probelms. Trust me my paperwork was delayed becasue the EXACT DATE I earned MBs was not recorded properly, and council had to "jigger" those twice to fix it. Also no matter how you file KEEP COPIES OF ADVANCEMENT REPORTS!!!! A very good frined of mine did everything, passed his EBOR and got kicked out of the system b/c council did not have any of his advancement recorded for 4 years. They had him listed as a First Class still.

yep this is definateley not the norm, is it a new DE perhaps? While there is a list of donors out there, that's restricted to the DE, the FOS chairman, a VERY select few individuals, usually one or two people, usually the district chair and the next FOS chair. They do sit down and go through the list, and discuss whether to ask for an increase, usually the "Suggested Gift Amount" on the FOS card. they will discuss people they know, usually to see if it possible or not to ask for an increase in relation to their circumstances, i.e. this person has a child in the hospital, this person just lost their job, etc.

Daddy_O One of the hardest things I've seen, and am slowly experiencing as a parent with small children, is learning to let go and let your son decide on his own. Yes you can influence them, but it will get to a point that the parent, while still influencing, mentoring, and parenting the child, needs to slowly step back and let them make their own decisions, hopefully for the better, but sometimes for the worst. They have to learn to accept responsibility and the consequences of their actions. Your son may not be interested in playing basketball in HS or college. He may not want to got to UConn, but another school. Or he may decide he has a calling to serve his country and enlist, skipping college for a later date. You need to support him when that time calls. I didn't have the greatest childhood as my father was a real jerk who left. I looked up to my uncle and cousin, both eagles and the uncle receicing the Silver Award (hence his reference to being a Double Eagle). However they did not approve of the university I went, and neither showed up to my ECOH, despite being told they had speaking parts in it. Them not showing did Hurt, and the relatiosnhip I have with them, while still there, has suffered as a result. But in the end it all worked out. My old SM, who was not only a role model but a father figure did show up, despite some challenges he was having. Also my first SPL, who I consider the epitome of being an Eagle, had just come back from Iraq to attend the ECOH. Those two folks ended up taking those roles I had planed for my uncle and cousin.

Concur with Lisa. I would have a chat with Son #2 and discuss what big brother is happening and how it may affect him in the future: not being approved for special activities like OA, Jambo, Philmont, etc. denial of PORs, having "challenges" with advancement, or worse having the leaders humiliate him in public. Hopefully none of this will happen, but I've seen some of this and the complaints that go with the problems. Make sure you have multiple copies of advancement just in case. Never turn in anything without at least 1 copyt, preferably 2 being made and kept. Have son #2 keep a journal of his trips and document everything. Sorry it's come down to this, but I've seen where leader think Scout A "gets away" with something that they cannot stop, they then focus on family.

Daddy_o said "Be thankful for cartoon parents like me; my boy is the one yours hides behind when some tough kid wants his lunch money! Be thankful. You're welcome. " Actually growing up I've seen the sports kids being the bullies and the scouts defending those who were being taken advantage of. Scouting gives a sense of responsibility and tells us "To help other people." While the sports concentrate on winning, sometimes at any cost. So maybe you should thank us Scouters for instilling the values in your son to stand up to the weak, even if it may be unpopular with your son's team mates.

Begin the appeals process ASAP. I hate to say it, but I know longer trust the leadership in this unit and would have your SON take matters into his own hands. Have HIM contact the DAC and confirm that they did forward everything to him. I would also give him a copy of the email they sent you, so that the DAC can pester them for the stuff as well as your son, squeaky wheel gets the oil as my old FD use to say. I would also have your son make copies of EVERYTHING, multiples at that. If the unit has some of the stuff,he should ask for it back, and if they give him excuses, he should contact the DAC and/or DE immediately. I concur with gern as it sounds like an ambush. The matter should have been resolved 4 years ago. And since the Sm stated he has not checked FACEBOOK for other eagle candidates, that says something to me. Also find another troop ASAP for son #2 as it will get difficult to him, if it hasn't already

Frank, Yep lead by example. One of the cooler things about neckers, especially out of the country, is that they have some meaning behind them. getting to know those stories can be a great way to meet people. A few custom neckers here in the US also have special meanings, like my old troop's with a keystone shaped patch with tent and feet inside of it. Since #1 I like to set the example and #2 I like to talk to scouts about some of the great opportunities in Scouting, I've started wearing a different necker each month. Opened up some great conversations, especially the European ones in my collection!

In my district all SMs can sign off on certain MBs, usually the basic scouting ones like camping, hiking, backpacking, etc. While in previous years, they didn't haev to registered as MBCs, we now require them to be registered as an MBC. Which reminds me, gotta update the MBCs I can teach, they don't have me on the list for First Aid.

You've gotten a lot of advice, I hope you take it. It is so true that CS and new scouts do NOT know what it takes to be Eagle, even if they have Eagles in the family. I had two: an uncle and a cousin and heard some of their stories and ribbing (They had to take away the Silver Award for my generation ). While I had a copy of the BS handbook from before I joined CS and read the Eagle requirements, I did not know exactly that entailed. I didn't know about all the hard work, like going through troop leader training, and later the council's advanced junior leader course at the time. I did not know the hours of work involved in earning the necessary merit badges to get Eagle. I did not know the difficulty in planning, organizing, and executing a service project for my community that involved me leading folks to do it. I did not know the difficulty in coordinating three different school schedules for my patrol. I didn't know the difficulties in coordinating 7 different HS schedules, and a bunch more middle and elementary schools schedules for a troop calendar. While the requirements are there for everyone to see, you don't know the difficulty and challenges those simple words entails until you do them. I also did not know in reading those Eagle requirements the fun of learning wilderness survival skills (and ensnaring your SM so that he is upside down in a tree ). I did not know about the beauty of nature I would encounter in the sunsets at my sumnmer camp, the sunsets of my first Fifty Miler in tee Canadian wilderness, or the sunsets of my second Fifty Miler in the Gulf of Mexico ( Ok that last one was while a Sea Scout after my eagle, but those were beautiful sites. I didn't know the satisfaction of teaching first aid skills to my patrol, or later helping the new scouts in learning how to camp properly. I did not know about the pride of being selected to be a member of the Order of the Arrow, and then testing myself at the Ordeal. I did not know the camaraderie and friendships I would make, not only with scouts in my troop, but from my council, from Canada, and Japan. I also did not know in reading those requirements over 27 years ago that I would remain involve after getting Eagle as an 18 y.o. ( I had my EBOR a month after my birthday so it took me SEVEN years to get Eagle) I did not know that I would stay on and make a positive influence on those still on the Trail to Eagle. I did not know that i would have the opportunity to go to another country and work ata scout camp there as part of the European Camp Staff Program. I did know that I would I would become a professional scouter, making sure that other kids would have the opportunity to join the greatest youth program in the world. I did not know that I would volunteer again, as a training chairman to make sure that the leaders of these youth know their stuff and CAN provide the quality program I had. I also did not know that 27 years after joining Scouting as a CS, I would be signing up my oldest as a TC and hoping to make sure he has the same opprotunites and adventures I has growing up. While those Eagle requirements are a few simple words, there is so much more behind them. Scouting has so much to offer, literally a world of opportunities. Take heed of the advice you've been given and let your son decide. It is his life to live, and his responsibility to make the most of it. Support him in his endeavors.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Desertrat has some good points. I would also add adults getting to involved in the workings of the lodge. I admit it is very hard to keep my mouth shut and let the youth run the show, especially when you got a brand new chapter chief who is overwhelmed by all the minutia involved in runnign a lodge, but you gotta do it in order to prove tyhe youth with the benefits of leadership.

Best to let the new COR know that they are part of the District committee and a voting member of the council executive board. That way the unti's voice is heard in major matters.

Yep transitioning from unit to District was hard, especially for me. I got "promoted" to the district committee at the ripe old age of 21. Like OGE I thought that folks on the committee knew their stuff to, and was a little intimidated my the others, especially the age factor. Here I was a college student on the committee workign with lawyers, business leaders, and a local politician. But over time I realized what needed to be done, and started voicing my opinions. While some on the committee did ignore me due to my age, usually the ones without Scouting experience, others did. What helped me come around was the conversations with my DE. I was interested in being a pro, and talked a lot with him about the district and profession. So good communication may be a factor. Another reason why new district folks have problems, IMHO, is that they are used to doing things one way, the way their unit has done things, and cannot open up to the variety of ways to implement program that a unit has. Some folks are set in their ways, and cannot adapt. My personal reminder to be open to new ideas and not show favortism to the best unitin the district ( )was buying a new uniform shirt that became my "district shirt." One problem I've seen recently is that you have experienced district folks discounting the ideas of newer members. I've seen folks on the district level for 10+ years state "we can't do that" and We've doen it before and it didn't work" etc, etc. One meeting that I missed almost had a fight break out between two of the members over how to run a camporee! This has been a real challenge especially for me. The "old guard" are very good friends who I worked with or recruited back when I was a DE. They have been a foundation for the district through all the dark times, and it is because of them the district has survived. But the "young turks" are also good friends of mine, I've gotten many involved with the OA, and do have some great ideas to create a program for the youth. This group is younger and has more recent expereince working directly with the youth. I would love it if they stopped bickering and worked together.