Eagle92

Being one of those scouts who was in debt after my father walked out, I can tell you how embarrassing it can be. I was fortunate in that our treasurer discretely worked it out. My troop did one fundraiser a year in two parts. The scouts cleaned trash at a local festival all weekend, while the adults worked the htodog booth. By doing trash detail all weekend, and it sounds worse than it was, I was able to pay my troop dues and go camping, including summer camp. As for adults, my troop at one time paid their way to all events since they were giving of their time, talents, and vehicles. Once we startd having adults show up to have some fun, that policy changed, but since I was a college student supprotign myself, the committee let me go free still, and no one had any problems with that. My advice would be to be discrete and make arrangements. Use council resources like OA camperships and scholarships. Make the scout, and adult if needed, put some "sweat equity" into the program so that they can earn their way instead of getting a hand out. Bet you they will have a better time knowing that they put so much time and energy to be able to go ont he trip.

Being a a former pro, I can tell you it is a very fine line between what the SE and the vols. want, especially if you are a former district vol and you know why the vols want XYZ and how in the long term, that will be better for Scouting. As stated previously some pros, especially SEs and DFSs only look to the short-term, b/c they will be leaving in 3-5 years. They feel that someone else can fix the problems. Yep the demands are extremely stressful, and yes alot of us "youngins" leave. For a variety of reasons. While some do leave because it is not as they envisioned the job, another factor is the money. I can tell you that I had coworkers and friends leave the profession and double, and in one case triple, their salary.But the NUMBER 1 reason I've seen pros leave, both young ones and experienced ones, was the stress the job places on the family. I know my wife threatened to divorce me with in 3 mos of being married b/c of the schedule; nightly meetings, approx 2 weekend/month camping, conferences, and her favorite the phone calls at 9:50PM and 7:01AM (all my volunteers signed a card stating they will not call us after 10PM ort before 7AM as their wedding gift). If you have a De who is doing their job, taking care of the units and makign the program go, please, PLEASE be kind and take care of them. They are truly worht their weight in gold.

Hal, There is and official activity uniform that was created and discarded in the 1990s. it consisted of the one of two polo shirts red for Scouts, tan for varsity and a maroon for Scouts in a Venture Crew now called a patrol. they were regulation, was supposed be used in all outdoor activities, including camp ceremonies, btu were never popular.

Goodluck and God bless. Keep us posted.

I bet if they remove the pockets, they will go back to the original placement of things. Personally I don't think any changes will happen until AFTER jamboree.

After the nightmare that was Badge Bond, remember the stuff in a spray can national sold a few years back, i learned my lesson: SEWING ONLY. My shop had a can or two returned b/c folks were complaining. Ask my manager If i could be a guinea pig adn try the stuff on a shirt. NEVER AGAIN

it took less than 2 minutes to take out seam, bet the wife wouldn't mind, especially if you gave her her favorite flavored coffee or chocolate

Nolerules, the secret to the 'pen pocket" is to take a seamripper, look very carefully to see what you can and cannot cut, and remove the stitching, and Viola'. Just need to be careful at the top so that you are not cutting the thread on that, for lack of a better word "embroiders" the opening. Beleive it or not the ChiComs added the seam creating the "pen pocket" after the pocket was attached to the shirt.

Good ideas all. I do have to disagree with Beavah b/c I had a friend accused of violating YP, and she is history. I know the "scout" who made the accusation, would not trust him to spit on me if I was on fire, and had problems with him and is 'trustworthiness." YP is there for both the scout and adult's protection.

In reference to the tech pocket. OH YEAHHHHH!!!!! Pain in the butt to sew the patch on without sewing the pocket to the shirt, and IMHO the sleeve looks funky with the CSP, Unit Number SPACE then the trained patch and POR. Now if they would move the Swiss tabs up an inch, I like having the sleeved rolled OVER my elbow.

Yep I notice that when the helicopter parents aren't around, the scouts pace themselves. That was my case. Got Life by 13, and the last 4 years working on Eagle. I was semi active in that I attended all of the meetings, but couldn't go camping b/c of work and/or school. Yep the methods work and are all equal in use. I do admit though to being partial to Outdoors b/c #1 that is where you can really see how the other 7 methods are working out, and #2 I missed out on so many camping trips as a youth b/c of my need to support myself. Please keep up the good comments,

MD Yes the troop is playing fast and loose, and that may, repeat MAY, cause some problems with the District EBOR. Someone from the district advancement committee, usually the DAC themself, is the one who discusses the projects, make some recommendations if needed, and approves the project. I know that I was almost rejected at my EBOR b/c the current DAC did not approve my eagle project. Fortunately #1 the former DAC that approved the project was also on the EBOR and 2) I wanted to know if there was an appeals process b/c I did everything I was supposed to do, As for the SM not signing the project, that is irregular, although I've seen some units want another leader sign the paperwork for SM' son. Since this is a troop policy and has been used for previous eagles, it's easily appealable. Good luck and keep us informed.

Ok folks, without having to go to the UC or DE, how could I persuade the SM to work to change it. I have to admit when he was approached, the IH and COR gave some very good examples of some of the challenges they have seen with young eagles and he has bought into it. So I'll need some ideas to persuade him, so that he can have some buy in if he does agree with me. Here's what I've suggested. 1) focus on the outing in Scouting, not just advancement. not only create the monthly programs, but organize a few high adventure events like Philmont, Sea Base, Northern Tier, AT, etc. 2) encourage the scouts to get involved in the OA once eligible. ( this may work well since of their 3 new members, 2 are now on the ceremony team ) 3) encourage them to go to Jambo, NYLE, etc. 4)Keep them involved in a variety of leadership roles so that they are active, can pass on what they learned, but still have time to have fun. 5) make sure that MBs are not part of troop program and they do see councilors. My experience is that when Scouts hit high school, they start to slow down because of the MBs, high adventure activities, and also the "fumes: perfume and car fumes" So the 16 minimum is not be a necessary rule.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

FWIW my son and I are not in the troop, yet anyway. The troop has had only 1 Eagle to date, and he transferred in when his dad was asked to start the troop. There were some challenges, not to this policy but leadership reasons, and some scouts did leave. When the SM was asked to step down, the son stayed long enough to get Eagle and left. I think that, and some of the under 16 Eagles that the IH and COR have seen elsewhere caused them to come up with the no Eagle BORs before 16. Again no problems at this time, especially since the hard chargers are slowing down as they now need to earn MBs, but this problem possibly could arise in the future. Other than that policy the troop is awesome. They focus on putting Outing in Scouting, go camping every month, and have leaders who care enough about the boys to step back and let them make their own mistakes and learn from them, counseling them after the fact. with the exception of the 100 yards rule, I think even Kudu would approve of what they are doing. EDITED Forgot to add, this policy is not to keep the scouts active in the unit longer, but to insure that they have the knowledge, ability, skills, and maturity to be an Eagle.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Ok gotta a question, What if the charter organization, not the SM or committee, but the IH and COR both, who create the 16 y.o. minimum age for Eagle? We all know that the LDS has modified scouting to suit their criteria, and effectively got a program started for themselves, Varsity Scouting. So can another CO do the same? This is the situation with one CO with a pack troop, and crew. the IH and COR are both Eagles and want the same standards as when they grew up. They have seen Eagles who should not have been, and want to make sure that when someone makes Eagle from their troop or crew, they truly deserve it. There is no problem now as the units are very young, troop around for about 3-4 years and crew less than a year. But they are VERY active, and even without an emphasis on "First Class, First Year" they have a lot of new scouts getting to First Class within a year. While the movers and shakers are now starting to slow down due to MBs, the youth I've seen are still pumped and busting their tail.

Daddy-O, Please do not confuse working on multiple requirements simultaneously with doing one item counting towards multiple requirements. teh swimming example may be one of the very few exceptions in that goal of it is to make sufre the scout has some basis of swimming, which many consider a survival skill. there are some who want the same activity count for more than one MB, i.e. backpacking trips for backpacking MB, and camping MB. That doesn't work. it's an either or situation.

I guess I would have been considered a "soft seller" in that I didn't use the high presssure tactics that some have encountered and were "encouraged" to use by my FiD and DFS. FOS is a necessary evil in that it does so much more than "Fund Our Salaries." The actual cost of scouting varies from council to council. While my original council calcualted that it cost appox. $81/year in addition to everything else a scout pays for, i.e. uniforms, fees, campouts, etc., The council I became a DE in calculated it would cost $88/year extra. That may not seem like much, but when you have families who are hurting, those that need help getting uniforms and camperships, that extra money would take alot of folks out of our wonderful program. Yes that money does cover salaries. But it also covers the costs of maintence at you council's camp(s), insurance, recruiting supplies, SCOUTREACH, activities that go over budget (it does happen on occasion), training supplies, records maintence (despite SCOUTNET ), and I can go on. While I encourage everyone to give to FOS, I know that some do give of their time and talents. I know that some do pay for things out of pocket, never expecting reinbursement I aslo know that some just cannot support the program b/c of financial obligations. So I understand when I got those pledge cards with $0, and am glad they turned them in at all as I hated doign "phone-a-thons" and putting them on the spot on the phone, or worse talking to them in person and seeing in their eyes how much the program means to their son and them, but they just cannot afford to give. Yes FOS is like a "spread the wealth" scheme, but unlike when government does it, you have a choice in whether to contribute to FOS or not and how much. Don't pay taxes, and you are goign to jail, pay penalties, and pay interest. Grant you some folks need to learn tact, But I bet you a CSP that teh DE is getting pressured and "advised" from on high. My suggestion is to have a talk with his boss, or send a letter, stating how you think the tactless tactics could actually HARM scouting by reducing FOS pledges next year, and possibly membership numbers THIS year as families do not appreciate the tactics, and leave the movement. If enough families and leaders complain, the tactics may change. EDITED TO REPLACE THE 2ND 'SCOUTREACH' IN 3RD PARA. WITH MY INTENDED "SCOUTNET" I got SCOUTREACH on the mind as my hospital's VP of HR just stopped by and said he has an old uniform he wants to donate.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Times are hard, very hard. But I have not heard of a DE asking to do a 2nd presentation, until this post. Now what my council IS doing, especially since they lost direct funding from another UW agency, is 2 things. #1 is the council is producing a special edition temp insignia for those who send a copy of a letter to the editor in reference to BSA, UW,and funding. If your UW is giving, thanking them, if UW only does designated funding, tellig people, and if your UW was the one that recently rejected the council's proposal, informing the public of their actions. The other thing is that they created a special CSP for those who either gave $50 more than last year, or up their 2009 pledges by $50. I beleive this CSP is in addition to the regular FOS CSP with the next point of the Scout Law in it.

Yep you will have to resend info and they will have to reenter it. I turn in copies of all forms, and request a copy of your scoutnet redords after they fix it. that way you cna send copies of the Scoutnet record. Yep pros and vols both don't like SCOUTNET. WHEN it was introduced in my council in 1998, it drove us nuts! I remember waiting at the office all day to hear the final membership tally for my district 2 days before Christmas. My then fiance actually fell asleep in a chair waiting to get a tally so I could take her home for Christmas and introduce her to my family. I believe part of the problem is that the person who was in charge of the project at the time had NO computer experience whatsoever. basically he was a SE who got bumped to national before retirement. I was told by a coworker, who left the programming industry to be a DE, that the company the BSA hired had a reputation for extremely low bids, producing very shoddy programming, and then makign hteir money with "upgrades" and fixing bugs. So BSA may have spent so much at one point, that it would be cheaper to continue paying a service fee than to cancelt the system and start from scratch.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

It may have one time served as a license in literature b/c that's how my troop, and 99.9% of the troops I've known or been affiliated with has treated the TC. And I've been in 5 different councils. In the way I way taught, the cut corner was a reminder for you to use your tools safely. And it gave four chances, unless you really screwed up.

While I've not been on my lodge's Nimat Hike, nor served as a Nimat adviser, I've been told that it is a hike that consists of a series of stops where there is a chance to reflect on your scouting career and how you live the Scout Oath and Law, especially the 'duty to others" portions. It's done with small groups, and everythign I've heard has been positive. If I wasn't busy with the singers, I would love to go along the hike or serve as an nimat adviser.

Since you added this sentence to your identical post in your other thread, I took the liberty of posting it on this thread and my response. "Our troop has many young adults with no children leading as SM and ASM and dealing appropriately with behavior issues - what is the solution? Cathy, Not to sound hardnosed, but there is no problem with non-parents or parents with no children in the unit still remaining active. I've been an adult leader for 17 years now, and my oldest will not be a TC until June 1. One of the best trainers I've ever had was a lady whose son graduated out of Cubs adn Scouting and was in Pharmacy school when I met her, yet she was still a Cubmaster and CS Trainer. And then my old SM had no childen at all, his nephews needed a SM and he volunteered. Stayed in the position for 25 years. The best way to resolve this "challenge" is to volunteer in either a leadership role, or as a committee member who is responsible for recruiting leaders. Make sure to undergo training as some folks have a real problem transitioning from CSs to BSs. There are differences in the programs, and I am having the reverse problem; transitioning from BSs to CSs While the SPL and/or PLs should be the ones to handle it, in an emergency for safety reasons, the Adult should take charge as we are the ones resposnible for safety. Personally I think the dropped knife is not a problem, unless the blade was open. Then that's a safety issue. As to the other incident, can't really comment on, there may be more to the story. Maybe havign a cup of coffee and talking to the ASM, or better yet have your son talk to him after a few days. One other thing to remember, he still has Totin Chit privelges as long as A) he has A corner left, or B the card is not cut in half. So I wouldn't be too worried about it.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

That's why my kids are going to wear a retro uniforms

Cathy, Not to sound hardnosed, but there is no problem with non-parents or parents with no children in the unit still remaining active. I've been an adult leader for 17 years now, and my oldest will not be a TC until June 1. One of the best trainers I've ever had was a lady whose son graduated out of Cubs adn Scouting and was in Pharmacy school when I met her, yet she was still a Cubmaster and CS Trainer. And then my old SM had no childen at all, his nephews needed a SM and he volunteered. Stayed in the position for 25 years. The best way to resolve this challenge is to volunteer in either a leadership role, or as a committee member who is responsible for recruiting leaders. make sure to undergo training as some folks have a real problem transitioning from CSs to BSs. There are differences in the programs, and I am having the reverse problem; transitioning from BSs to CSs While the SPL and/or PLs should be the ones to handle it, in an emergency for safety reasons, the Adult should take charge as we are the ones resposnible for safety. Personally I think the dropped knife is not a problem, unless the blade was open. Then that's a safety issue. As to the other incident, can't really comment on, there may be more to the story. maybe havign a cup of coffee and talking to the ASM, or better yet have your son talk to him after a few days. One other thing to remember, he still has Totin Chit privelges as long as A) he has a corner left, or B) the card is not cut in half.

Tell him as an Arrowman that " If I can do it, ANYONE can do it" with a smile on your face and all cheerful honesty. As a father, tell him that you love him and would NEVER ask him to do anything that would hurt him. On a personal note, you lucky dog. At the March Ordeal we had three fathers welcome their sons to the Order. I cannot wait for mine to do so. Long way off for me, my oldest son has been invited to a camping trip this weekend with the pack he will be joining June 1.