Eagle92

Someone with more advancement experience please correct me, but I believe, and again this is a belief, that since the Eagle Candidate in question has attempted to get his EBOR well in advance of his 18th birthday, and the ADULTS in his unit were unwilling to give him the EBOR which would have advised him of what is needed to be done PRIOR to his birthday, AND the appeals process has been started well in advance of said birthday, that IF anything is discovered that would disqualify an Eagle Candidate after his 18th bday, the candidate can be given an extension, pending national's approval to fix the problem equivelent tot he amount of time he would have between when first asked for his EBOR and his 18th birthday. Again this is something that is at the back of my mind as I believe a situation like this has happened in my current council a few years back. I have very limited experience with advancement, so I may be completely wrong.

Both the Bonner Scout Reservation and Pamlico Sea base in NC offer year round programming oppotrunties. Heck PSB just created a new program for CS called "Cub Scout on Demand"

Let's look at the origins of WB. BP wanted to create a training course for SMs to bring back to their troops and incorporate into their program. The WB trained SM would instill the elements of WB into is troop's junior leaders. Hence the Wb training would fan out so to speak. Thus according to theory, a WB trained SM, would instill the same knowledge, skills,and abilities into the scouts he works with. So in essence, an Eagle of a WB trained SM would have very similar expereinces as a WB course. Most people i've met who are upset with WB21C are upset b/c they took alot of the outing of it. Yes you do some basic camping, but you are inside for most of the classes. When I went though BA22 back int he day, we did a bit of backpacking, a bit of pioneering, a bit of orienteering, a nit of wilderness survival, etc. Classes were either in the program areas we were camping in, or on Brownsea Field with the entire troop of 8 patrols. 4 patrols were int he base camp area, 4 patrols in the out back area, and the only time we saw the other half was the first day, one day in the middle of the week, Friday for the camp service project and feast, and graduation. We didn't have group classes, except for one class int he middle of the week. Today I reread the Philmont Leadership Course (PLC) that takes what is learned in WB, and "takes it up a notch" THAT course reminds me of what I went through with Brownsea 22, the JLT course I staffed, the the old WB course I've been told and read about. If that was the current WB course, or even a slightly watered down version of it, I would have no doubt I would take that course before Powderhorn. I really regret that I didn't take WB when I had the opportunity to 15 years ago. Even if, as one of my youth staffers who turned 18 told me, " the same thing we taught and did at JLT, just without the ticket."

Why are the adults doing all the planning? They should be assisting inthe planning, i.e. giving advice, makeing sure of safety, etc., but the SCOUTS need to do the planning! That's the biggest problem right there. Maybe we in the US could take a look at the UK for ideas. While not a Scout Association Award, many Scouts and Guides i met did have it. http://www.dofe.org/expedition/

I have to echo the Eagle comment. I've known Eagles who have left scouting for extended periods who, might not be able to give you the book definition of how to do something, i.e Safe Swim Defense, they did nkow all the elements. Actually thinkingh thinking about it, everyone knows BALLSPDq, I mean Safety Afloat (This message has been edited by eagle92) EDITED: I also believe that because CS does have a higher turnover, they renamed DL Coach into Pack trainer, to give a better description of what the job entails.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

I am a volunteer with one UW chapter, the county chapter my work is im, but my council deals with other UW chapters. it is correct that each UW board of volunteers determines who gets what money. Nationally some BSA councils have lost UW funding. The county UW that I live in does designations only for the BSA. Anotehr County UW has denied funding to my council, and we are waiting to hear if they will still allow designations. Council has posted their response to two complaints that the local UW has for why they are no longer giving. Complete faldercarb if you ask me.

The only time my old troop, which met on Friday nites, did not hold meetings were the following: 1) Good Friday 2)Friday nite of summer camp 3) Whenever we were leaving friday nite for a trip. 4) the two weeks off for Christmas (and usually we had a contingent going to winter camp). 5) COHs In the immortal words of Porky Pig, "a the the the the that's all folks!"(This message has been edited by eagle92)

In addition to capturing the flag, we also had capture the totem for JLT. We had a scrub brush for the service patrol and a stuffed animal for the program patrol. Hijinks all around. One patrol got very creative: they lashed a cage to place the animal in saying how they captured this wild and crazy animal from trying to ekill their patrol members while it was ona rampage. Now the tent dropping remided me of an incident at a scout camp in the UK. Two of our service crew members hooked up during their stay. Camp warden (ranger), found them in one of the tents and dropped it on them.

Sox, With no disrespect, this is a very sensative subject as we had a poser trying to get intot he OA without goign through the Ordeal. First he claimed to be a Vigil member, then a Brotherhood member. Talk to your Chapter chief, chapter adviser, or lodge folks. They are your best resource.

According to national, you cannot hold two roles in your unit, unless you are the IH, and/or COR. An IH can also serve as COR and CC. COR can serve also serve as a CC. Now sometimes i've seen COR registered din a unit leader p[position as well. But DL and CM is a no no. Now grant you since you are a direct service unit, that may be an allowable acceptance, but you have enough on your plate as DL.

Allengr1024, Actually the first time I heard of an activity like this, it was called "Capture the Den Flag" and it was played at CS Day camp. It seemed that some denners or den chiefs, can't remember who was responsible for the den flag, were leaving them around and forgetting them. So 'capture the den flag" resulted. there were rules, i.e. no going into the den's area, no raiding flags while a den was in a program area, etc, and the entire den, including DC and the parent, had to sing Squirrelly to get it back. Good clean fun.

As an old commercial use to say, "Just Do It!" undergo the Ordeal, be active. and have fun.

That last post got me to thinking, one of the great things about about this board. yes WB is important, but THE most important thing in Scouting is not WB, or training, or whatever. IT IS ABOUT THE YOUTH!!!!! As long as we can provide a good program for our CS, the knowledge, skills, and abilities for our BS and Venturers to grow physcially, mentally, and morally, and create their own program, then that is what ALL of us should be focused on, not who has the most bling, including beads, on their uniforms. A very wise Marine humbly said one time when someone commented on the numerous decorations he wore that they were mementos of a "misspent youth"

Again I have not been in either WB, course but I have been through Brownsea 22 and staffed JLT, both of which I am tolded mirrored the old WB program. I've worked with very dedicated and knowledgeable WBers in both courses. When I staffed JLT, I was the only adult who was NOT either working their ticket or had their beads. The SM equated my Brownsea 22 experience with WB. Sad to say one of the WBers, a 3 beader to be precise, did have that arrogant attitude towards me. That's ok, I think I proved my abilities when I served as SPL for that course. Maybe b/c I had a good rep in my old council, but no one really gave me any attitude about not being a WBer. I would not worry about any attitudes. Just "Do Your Best," cheerfully serve the youth in the your council, and let your actions speak louder than your words. As for not wanting to attend WB, I have mixed emotions. Part of me understands where Desertrat is coming from. i get enough leadership and management classes from work, I'ld rather spend the WB time doing family stuff or some thing with the pack. Plus the financial issues involved. The course IS expensive, and unlike the old course I cannot get continuing ed credits, even though WB21C is basically a management course geared towards scouting. Added to that is the fact is that WB21C is not the course I learned of and promised myself I would take someday. It appears that alot of the outing in Scouting no longer takes place. Yeah technology has come up with better things than a lashed tripod and flip chart for presentations, bu thte classes were in the outdoors, not in a dining hall. Personally from what I've read, POWDERHORN gives more outdoor experience than WB21C. As to why I do want to take the course. #1 I did set a goal many years ago that I would go through WB and earn those beads. WB was the ultimate in training way back when (there was no Powderhorn and no post WB course at Philmont like today), and the men and women who wore those beads were the best, and also the most humble. It's funny even though my SM was a WBer, he rarely wore his beads. In fact I didn't know what WB was until going through Brownsea 22. Those adult staffers and my SM made a very good impression on me and I want to be like them when I finally grow up #2 The WB comraderie, no matter where you take the course, is awesome. Look at this thread. look at the WB reunions. I'm heavily involved in the OA and have lots of friends. And at times at nite, discussions will go to WB among my group, especially since 3 of the folks went through the same course, 1 was a staffer, and 1 went through the course with the staffer. Sometimes I feel a little left out. Again I think I gonna do Powderhorn before WB. Who knows, maybe by the time I do WB, they will bring back some of the old WB material.

Yes definitely put unit number on it. My old troop used semaphore flags, painting the patrol emblem center, and adding a council strip in one corner, and a troop patch in the other. As Lem Siddons learned (at least in the book) not everyone who joins Scouts is a scout.

Beret's are nice. I had a navy blue one with sea scout insignia with my old ship. Wish I hadn't traded it for those Russian scout patches now. Now I did get a grey Air Scout beret fromthe UK. It looks sharp with the Venturing uniform But as for iconic headwear, I'll take a "smokey bears" any day (This message has been edited by eagle92)

IMHO going into another unit's campsite is wrong unless A) Invited, B) You ask permission, or C) You are on staff and inspecting the campsite. To me that constitutes theft. and Yes contact your DE, Reggie, or Mike (aka Mr. Happy) about the matter. That said, if the patrol forgot the flag at an event, or left it laying somewhere that was accessible to anyone, yeah capture the patrol flag, as that was a common game in my troop. BUT we always returned the flag, usually at a meal time, and again we never went into a group's campsite. back in the day, the patrol would usually have to sing to get it back, but some consider that hazing nowadays. Other than the Klepto patrol and your flag, how was camporee? I had to go camping at Camp Charles with the pack oldest is joining. they invited us to tag along.

OGE, Correct, one person, preferably 2. Also if you do the Trek Safety and Climb On Safely online, you will note that they require WFA for treks and climbing activities. Forgot about that as another reason why I think WFA will be mandatory inthe very near future. I should have rememebered since I just did those two courses online last week.

Capture the flag was big with my troop as a youth. So was Civil War, with the Confederates and Yankees, I mean Union sides.

GetOutdoors, First Aid and CPR, or possibly Wilderness First Aid may become mandatory in the near future for units. This is already in effect for units goign to Philmont. On the MyScouting.org site, it sounded in one thread as if WFA may be required for all units going camping. I beleive it was under the Health and Safety group discusions, but type in WFA for all the discussions on that topic.

Grant you my expereience with treks has been by paddling, but some of the same things can apply. For all three 50+ milers I've done, we were told we had to reach X point by Y time. How far we did each day didn't matter, as long as we reached X point by Y time. Now we did break the milage down by days, so that we had an average amount of miles we wanted to do each day. But on two of those treks, we had bad weather come in, and we had to stop far short of our projected goals for the days of the storm. We wound up having to make emergency camps (which we also planned for) and made up some miles the next day. On my third trek, we actually decided to go further than planned one day b/c 1) we had a nice current that put us way ahead of schedule and 2) one of the emergency sites on our ploat plan also had some "luxury" facilities in the form of flush camodes and showers that we wanted to use. It actually turned out for the best that we decided to go ahead of schedule and get to the emergency site as one of the guys with a medical condition started having some major health problems about 45-60 minutes away from that site. A medevac chopper was able to pick him up from that campsite easily, whereas it would have been alot more challenging to get him out of the scheduled campsite. Now for my advice. Make sure that the practice trips do a little more than distance than your planned daily average. That way if an emregency comes up, and you have to stop early for the nite on the weeklong trip, you can make up the milage easier. For the main trip, look for emergency camping spots along the way. Also look for spots that will make medevac easier if needed, and hopefully it won't be. Otherwise go at a nice pace, and do stop to smell the roses and enjoy the sites.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Mafaking, The challenges as I see it is that 1) WB has the reputation as the ULTIMATE in adult leader training, and it appears that scout skills have been downgraded, and 2) You now have folks going through the course who have NO outdoor skills as they are CS leaders. I honestly believe that the post-WB course Philmont is now doing is closer to what BP and GBB envisioned as WB than WB21C. At least that is the impression I am getting.

So I guess that when I get the alterations done to my shirt, i.e. moving the swiss tabs and sleeve pocket up, I should go ahead ahead and get the BSA Strip directly embroidered to the shirt. Glad I have an unused flag patch from back in the day.

Crazy idea, but here it goes. I know usuallyt he OA will do a AOL/Crossover ceremony, but since this IS a Camping award, and the OA has a 94 year history of camping service, how about getting the OA to create and do a ceremony?

I admit that I was fortunate in growing up to be in a scout organized and run troop. Most of the troops save one in my district were liek that. Funny thing about that one troop. Yes they won all the competitions, was the smartest looking troop at summer camp, etc. But the SM did 99% of the work and did not let the scouts do anything. While my troop was trudging along using the patrol method, after the original SM left the troop after 25 years, that troop folded once the SM left. Let the scouts do their job of planning and organizing, and let adults do their job of drinking coffee, and just watch how much the troop does!