Eagle92

Young, yes, but rare no. I know one gentleman, who did so much for the council that within a period of 5 or so years got lodge honor neckerchief (local council award), Vigil(as a youth), Founders' Award (as a youth), DAM, and SB. Super active on the lodge, district, and council level. I think he was 21 when he got the DAM, and 23 or 24 when he got SB. Truly deserved it.

I say forget all other headgear,and go with the cheap army surplus Smokey Bears Seriously I have found that headgear can be a very personal issue at times. While Kudu views the beret as a symbol of Scouting's worse period, which sounds as if it may be coming back IMHO, OGE's view is that it was a symbol of the best patrol in his old troop. In my case, the Smokey Bears that I wear symbolize the 2 weeks I spent doing Brownsea 22, and later staffing JLT. There was no national recognition for those courses like WB beads, which they now award scouters serving on NYLT staff if they meet certain conditions, so my council awarded those smokey bears upon completing the course, or for staffing the course. The council recognized that a recognition was needed beside a temp patch and BROWNSEA strip, and decided upon the smokey. Maybe it was a national thing as I have seen a photos of other BROWNSEA staffs wearing smokeys, but Iw as the last BA22 troop in my old council, so some of the history was lost to me when I served on JLT staff. So that hat was an award, yet some have posted that it was a "nice gift" from my council and nothing more.

THAT"S THE WAY TO DO IT! good job for not only staying in the rear with the gear, but also for training your older scouts to be leaders! keep it up.

Yep a DE would be drooling as it would be 2 units. And eys a CO can have 2 different numbers assigned to it. My old CO had a pack and troop with with the same number, but the troop couldn't get off the ground. They actually merged with my troop when we were at one CO, but when the new IH hated BSA and we started looking for a new CO, we were welcomed with open arms with the CS only CO. We got the charter transferred over, and kept our original number, so the Pack was 172, and the troop was 866.

Boomer, try Ships' Stores as they have US flags that are good quality and are the same size as the flags on the ODL uniforms. Further I believe their products are made in the USA

My old troop's venture crew, now called venture patrol, decided to become chartered as a Venturing Crew just after Venturing came about and they were all male by their own decision. I've read of all girls crews, and had a friend in the UK who got tired of the Girl Guides ( UK's GS) and staretd an all girl Scout troop. No problems. Question, how does the megachurch handle coed activities with any other church youth groups? I ask b/c I know of several churches that turned their youth group into crews so that they can get the additional insurance, take advantage of Scouting activities and camps, and have fun.

X, Would you mine posting the author, article title, journal, and if possible an abstract? the links you provided only go to the log on, so I'm not picking up anything. I'll also try ot post what I find on research favoring uniforms. In referecne to uniforms and campouts, the ODL shorts/ pants would be able to survive. been there, done that, wish I could still fit in the pants from my youth I also wear scout uniforms on campouts, Although i admit to wearing cammies at Ordeals while working. I wonder how many adults who don't like the uniform policy grew up in scouting? Yep there are some challenges with the design and functionality, but we have to admit the centennial uniform is a modest improvement. Hopefully they will fix the things that are wrong with it, and bring production back to the USA.

X, Thanks for the heads up on the research against uniforms. I'll go back and try to find the research the local school board used to make their decision. I may have access to some of the journals, gotta love the power of the internet.

X, Actually research has shown that dress codes and/or uniforms DO improve performance in schools, and that is why 99.99999% of private schools in my home town of New Orleans have them, and more and more public schools are going to uniforms And if you look at some of the early scout histories, alot of school officals pushed for scouting to supplement and improve their scholastic knowledge. As for neckers, yep the Supply Division ones are worthless. Gotta go custom, or get European ones. I'll wear my BSA ones, but I love my European ones more, except for my old troop's custom necker.

One other thing about being fully uniformed, you get opportunities for PR. I was at one council camp, in full uniform for a flag lowering with the entire camp in full uniform (it was the Brownsea 22 course I took) and some photographers were there taking pictures. I took no notice of it. But a few months later I'm getting calls from my brother in CA and grandparent in TN saying they saw me in a UW commercial representing the BSA (My have times changed). And that was wearing hand-me downs and thrift store threads Another incident happened with the 1996 Superbowl. I was at one of the pre-game events wearing my Exploring uniform. The DSS went around, picked a fully uniformed TC (orange shirts and hats at the time), 2 CSs, a BS, and me to take pics with some of the players. I was also asked to be part of the color guard at the game, unfortunately I turned that down to be at GFs party. And if you look at those picks, all of the scouts were fully uniformed, and selected from units that have a uniforming culture. grant you the green shirt was new ( Summer camp post and used staff discount), but the green pants were my old thrift store threads. Now my CS pack doesn't have the uniforming culture, yet at least We have not been asked to do a any special events, but another unit with that has a uniforming culture (they also happen to be the oldest pack in the council chartered along with the oldest troop), has been asked to special events becasue the do have the uniforming culture. Both packs have great programs, both are very active, but the uniformed one does get a few choice jobs. As for my son, I know he will never be a poster child 'cause he doesn't wear the most current uniform, but he is fully uniformed with my old slide and cap. When asked abotu the old cap and slide, he proudly says "they were my daddy's"

Gern, I was one of those scouts who was too poor for a brand new uniform. I wore hand me downs and thrift store store stuff. No one could tell the difference. It was an equalizer in my troop. In reference to advancement, the Field or Official uniform, I'm an old fogey who remembers those termsto describe the ODL, the only place to consistently display advancement, PORs, etc is the uniform. I will concede that the ODL shirts were not meant for outdoor activities. But troop t-shirt, scout pants, shorts/pant, socks, etc were worn on all activities with my troop. And while you are correct that Scouting's ideal need to come from the heart, the uniform is a visible reminder to follow our oath and law. Further elements of the uniform, like the neckerchief, has a hundred and one uses. Also it is a visible reminder of the world wide brotherhood of scouting. As for uniforming and service, I can testify first hand that the uniform gives some authority to young men, who would otherwise be ignored by some adults, in emergency situation. My OA chapter is resposnible for one of the Red Cross shelters during emergencies. Folks know coming in that the Scouts are part of the staff, they have a job to do, and listen to them I've seen other teenagers helping out, some even wearing an ARC t-shirt, who were helping out be ignored by folks in the shelter. But when one of the Scouts in uniform says the same thing, the folks listen. I disagree in the value of thrift, perseverance, ownership, and good grooming. I saved up to get my uniforms, and it did teach me values of savings, decision making, and setting goals. Also when I purchased the uniform, IT WAS MINE { caps for emphasis, not shouting}. Also I wanted to look good in that uniform, and made darn sure that I sewed those patches on correctly, wore the uniform correctly and I instilled pride in my patrol members. It sounds as if you either have a young unit, a unit that has no uniform culture, or a unit that has lost their uniform culture. I hope that from the units expereicnes, the youth decide to get that uniforming culture. there is nothing like seeing a fully uniformed troop, going out and doign Scouting, except maybe goign to a jambo and seeing 50K+ scouts in full uniform.

Now don't be arguing with the "SM of the World!" IMHO, BSA started the downward spiral of uniforming A) with the ODLs, and B) makign the necker Optional and having two different ways to wear it. Now I admit I do have mixed emotions on Venturing and creating their own uniforms. On one had it gives the youth to decide on what to wear, and sometimes their choices are better than the BSA's idea. Sometimes they take the easy way out and there isn;t really a uniform, but more of a dress code. In reference to the new uniform, I think we all can agree that the zip offs overall are great, just a little expensive. The shirts have more problems, i.e ipod pockets, Swiss tabs too low on the LS versions, bellows pockets, no buttons that secure for temp insignia, price, made in China, etc. But overall I think it's an improvement. Oh and the green socks are more "fashion conscious" for today's youth, but I still don't like the stamping on the green and gray hiking uniform socks: the location on the foot makes them look like any old hiking sock and the stamp comes off. [sarcasm on] Maybe I should by the Walmart knockoff version of the hiking uniform socks, they are exactly the same as the uniform ones, made buy the same company, and are half the price. Plus no one can tell if they are the real deal or not since no one looks at the foot of the sock if they are new, and the stamp comes off after a few washings [sarcasm off]

I need to amend that last statement, that's a policy I read in a BSA employee manual, can't remember if it was while I was in supply or being a DE. That's why you won't see TRAINED strips on DEs, camp rangers, SEs, national scout shop staff, etc. You may see WB beads, several rows of knots, and the Professional Training Knot (Black knot on white background)but no trained strip for employees of all ranks.

Actually employees do not wear trained strips. Don't ask me why, but it's policy in some manual I read.

Yep CS leaders have a lot of leeeway. Most leaders in troops wear the troop necker if theri is one. Me personally I have a collection of neckers and I rotate wearing them. I wear one for all activities that week, then put it back in the drawer. They are great conversation starters with both the boys and adults.

I know when my old council did a canoeing trek program back in the day, they contracted with some guides. The guides loved it as it gave them steady work during the week.

Yes I admit I like the red toped knee socks, but it was for the practical value of protecting your legs while in shorts. Remember that there are two colors for official socks now, both of which are better in appearance than the old one. You have the all green ones with BSA stitches into the top, I've actually worn these with some dress pants for work, and the grey and green hiking socks with BSA stamped on the foot, where no one can see and since it's stamped comes off after 2-3 washes. Now only if they made them knee high!

Everyone, Thanks and keep it coming. I know that everything suggested won't be implemented, but the more ideas we have, the more options we have. SctDad, See ya in G-Vegas Baby!

Here's a not so hypothetical question, if you were on your council's CS committee, what would you like to se done in reference to both program and training? What ideas for activities do you want? What types of training, besides basic leader training, would you like and how often? How would you go about staffing these events? All ideas are welcome. I'll start one CS encampment in the fall that can intro families to camping, weather is warm enough for some activities, but cool enough that you aren't melting, and gets the kids pumped about scouting( as GBB said "outing is 3/4ths of Scouting.") Cluster training, i.e. multi-district, training form BALOO and OWL. Promotion of events 4-6 monts in advance AT A MINIMUM,

Hal, What's cooler than totin chip and weilding sharp objects, PAUL BUNYAN WOODSMAN AWARD!!!!!! Not only do you need to earn totin chip, but you gotta teach totin chip and weilding sharp objects to others, AND do some actual work with those sharp objects for a something constructive . ( Sorry Hal I couldn't resist) Too bad the patch can only be put on the pack and/or blanket.

Gern, I know I'm an old fogey, but with my troop as a youth ( mid 80s- early 90s), the uniform decisions were left up to the PLC, and enfoced by the PLC. Yes we made allowances for new scouts, and we did accept substitute green pants. Also in referecne to socks we accepted black socks with the pants only, as they were usually covered up by the legs anyway. But if you were in shorts, you better have the official scout socks as they were visible. We did have pride, and the youth leaders created that culture of unforming. It was the PLC that sent home scouts who showed up for a trip without their uniform, the SM played no role in that decision except to support the PLC. At summer camp, the PLC enforced the uniform standards at dinner, not he the leaders. So the answer is yes a 13YO will decide on the full uniform if he has been given the reasosn for it and sees his peers and youth leadersw earing it with pride. As for being treated differently wearing the uniform, that is a definate yes. People are nicer, more polite, and will start up conversations abotu their scouting expereinces, and that has happened to me all over the world. The ONLY time I ever had a problem with the scout uniform was going through immigration and customs in the UK. They went over me with a fine tooth comb. And the reason for that was that a Japanese citizen posed as a Japanese scout leader to avoid intense scrutiny in order to smuggle drugs about a month or so earlier than my trip.

One other thing about the employee patch, summercamp staff are also authorized to wear it, however some councils create their own camp POR patch, and soem council won't seell the employee patch to them. Basement, The only problem with the CM patch is, what unit numbers to wear with it, as he will be with multiple units? Then again, he could sew that one on, and velcro the unit numbers

in reference to Totin' chitFireman, Chit, etc, I am referencing how these patches are the same design as the flap of the pocket, and that I see scouts wear these patches on the pocket flap. Yes it's temp insig. and should be worn on the pocket itself, not the flap. Double stick tape, gotta try it. As for the glue, doesn't it get messy?

As I stated before, talk to the local Catholic priest, or better yet have the priest come talk to the committee. I know growing up, nondenominational services were OK by the IH for those trips where we were going to be really late coming home; usually summer camp and high adventure activities. One of the best inter-faith services was done in the UK and we had a smorgasbord of faiths there; Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian, Orthodox, Islamic, etc.

I've seen some scout associations do away with pants, except for the leaders and older scouts. While it may have worked for some groups, it didn't work for all. I can see jeans with a shirt, but purple sweat pants! I personally like the uniform and do want it to go away. But I would love it if cost could be cut. After all my wife found a pair of nearly identical zip off pants made by the same company as the current BSA pants at Walmart,a nd they were already hemmed at a fraction of the cost. And $50 for a shirt is kind of high for me, I lucked out and bought it just before the price went up with some bonus money from work. Why do I like the uniform. Some of it is egalitarian and some selfish. The uniform is an equilizer, it doesn't matter if it is used, new, or vintage. Heck we got one guy who actually promotes wearing vintage uniforms and some of the scouts love it. The uniform does promote esprit de corps, especially in those units with a uniforming mentality enforced by the youth and not the leaders. We took pride in our uniforms and troop. The uniform also tells someone that they are a scout, and to a fellow scout or scouter, what that individual has done. As for me personally, I've come to the realization after being with the new pack I'm in that I have a lot of "bling," especially after sewing on the patches on the new shirt. But I like the fact that people ask me about this patch or this necker, or this knot, and I can talk about some of the great opportunities Scotuign has provided me, and that await them or their son.