Eagle92

If you don't already have the three volume TROOP PROGRAM FEATURES for the PLC to use, then I suggest getting them as they are an aid for the PLC in planning. http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/SearchPage.aspx?page=LIST&free_text|=troop%20program%20features&answers_per_page=15 Additionally there is Boy Scout Troop Program Resources, with CD and this does have a survey sheet that your scouts can copy from the book or print from the CD.

My advice, and there are alot more knowledgabel people on here, would be to scrap completely the current troop meeting format, and either A) follow the Troop Program Helps model, or B) make the meetigns more patrol oriented in that they are doing stuff as patrols instead of groups. Patrol scribes are the ones respeonsible for the record keeping of the patrol. And if memory serves, the only patrol level position that counts as advancementis the PL position. Only the TROOP LEVEL positions, i.e. Troop Quartermaster, Troop Scribe, etc. And an argument can be made that PLs are a troop level POR as they are part of the PLC. Notice the APL POR doesn't count for advancement, a reaffirmation that patrol level jobs don't cut the mustard. As for the new scout patrols not playing in the games, WHY NOT? they are part of the troop and need to be incorporated, otherwise you may lose some of them. Has the SPL and PLs been through any training? If not, then you need to get them trained yesterday, as that should help. And once they are trained, they should serve as a cadre for training the next batch. I know this is a little different than what is taught at SM specific, but I've seen what happens when YOUTH train their successors, with the help of the SM. And it does work. Good luck.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Gern, Would you also accept GBB's BA22 course for staffer positions, as you decribed my course to a T . Patrol method, worked on scout skills, and backpacked everywhere. Heck I bet we even got Kudu's 300 feet rule down pat except for the last nite ( only about 175 feet apart) ! If only national would consider it.

In my old troop, it was the service patrol's choice of what to do. They could do something elaborate, keep to the norm ( i.e. law or Oath or Pledge), or very rarely short i.e. Motto or slogan.

Yep they are restricted. However you an also buy them from gilwell, where they are a bit more expensive, but larger and better quality I am told. They aslo ask for some info if memory serves.

Just like sports and various types of lessons, once they pay their registration fee, it can't be refunded as it goes to national. As for other fees, i.e troop dues and what not, that's a local unit matter.

Why not use Venturers for these trainings, after all aren't they suppose to be able to teach these skills, especially for the Ranger Award? Also let's not forget our older scouts and young adult leaders, i.e the 16-21 crowd. Just because they are young doesn't mean that don't have something to offer. One thing I learned was to know your your abilities and seek self improvement from those who can teach you.

Yep he isn't trained as an ASM. But truth be told, he has more outdoor skills than some of his fellow WB critters. That's one reason why I would like a "challenge" option to BSA training, just like ARC, AHA, and other trainings I've been through. By challenge I mean take a written test on the topic and demonstrate the skills. Another case for challenging a course would be the NYLT staffer you mentioned. I am sure he has the outdoor skills needed to teach others, heck if he is in ascout run troop, he's probably taught them a time or two, not to mention his time on NYLT. Which brings another point in reference tot the OP. If you gonna award beads to WBers staffing the course, shouldn't the youth training be recognized on the adult's record since national's argument is that they are almost identical? Edited: sorry forgot it is listed on the training transcript as both JLT and BA22 have their own codes. But the old WB course doesn't, at least looking at the codes the registrar gave me.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Someone mentioned that WB beads are lsoing their significance, I hate to say it but to a degree they have already lost their significance. Back in the day if memory serves, you had to have all your training done as a SM or ASM and have 2 years tenure as an adult, with the exception of a youth moving up through the ranks that has completed all their training. Sorry I don't know what the CSWB course prereqs were. And I know that the Exploring WB one was short lived. Once you received your beads, you were considered fully for trained any position. Fast forward to today. After the DisCom meeting, we were talking about mandatory training that is being tested in a few councils, and looks as if it is headed our way. A good friend of mine said that if the proposed policy of dropping leaders who haven't competed basic training was in place today, he would not be able to be an ASM with the troop because he has not gone through, and honestly doesn't plan on going through IOLS. This gentleman is an Eagle Scout who went through WB21C while serving as CM and is currently a trained Venturing adviser. So here is someone who has their WB beads, but isn't a fully trained ASM. Am I the only one who think something is wronge with this picture? I think WB and the beads have already lost their meaning.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

I believe Philmont has indeed come up with a course that focuses on scoutcraft skills for adults. SCOUTING did an article on it within the past few months. I think it is great and should be expanded. Problem is the pre-requisite is WB21C. What about Powderhorn? I know it is high adventure oriented, but do they use the patrol method? As for overhaul of training, I would love if they allowed and advertised a test out of the outdoor skills. Coming up through the ranks, the outdoor portion of SMF, now the IOLS course, wasn't anything new to me. Ditto for some of the others I've met with prior military experience/ outdoor experience.

Welcome aboard. According to the national website: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/NewLeaderTraining.aspx Troop committee members are considered trained when they have completed This Is Scouting and the Troop Committee Challenge as their Leader Specific training. Good lukc and again welcome aboard

Neil, No disrespect is intended as this request is complete curiosity on my part. Could you PM me the data? I ask b/c with my old troop would invite the Webelos to a meeting, and then a campout. We let the SPL and the rest of the PLC handle everything. They would meet with the SM, and then he would handle the parents. We got a few troops struggling with retention, and anything to make it easier for them.

A gentlemen ho wen to the annual meeting back in may blogged about some stuff on the MYSCOUTING.ORG website. It's under blogs, and he did three posts which included photos and the info he received. According to those posts, any member, youth or adult, can wear it. I believe, stress believe, it is only to be worn for one year, but I know that for most people, once on it stays. I and I think i read abotu the year only requirement, just can't remember where.

Yes the yucca is awesome. Wife got me an old canvas version for Christmas one year, and I my sons have used it when they "camped" in the backyard. heck wife stole it for her trip this weekend Yes there is alot of swank in the BSA catalog

Well i'm kinda of an old fogey. 9/10 of the time I wear my smokey bear, and wear a necker. Your are dead on about BSA neckers, I have a few and wear them, BUT I love the custom and European ones I have. and I do wear them as well as they were wither gifted to me or I traded for them. Hopefully I can talk my pack into doing a custom one for the leaders, as several have expressed interest in wearing one, but think the BSA ones are too small. Ok I admit I gussied up my JLT staff. I put three shields (eagle, vigil, and WC), a turks head, and painted blue polka dots with my POR at the top (staff insignia was a blue polka dot ribbon). However i am trying to make my new one utilitarian and used the diagrams as my basis. Got the inches and feet marked, 50' of paracord, wilderness survival stuff burnt onto it, and did the surveying and "survival kit" holes on it. Unfortunately you can't do all that with the the high tech ones. Plus the old fashion ones are a great conversations starter(This message has been edited by eagle92)

One thing about scout staves. I don't know about WB today, but when I attended BA22 and staffed JLT, they were a very important item. Their use dates to the founding of Scouting by BP, and in one speech he said the scout stave is an integral part of the uniform, adn was upset with troops not using them or abandoning them all together! There are hundreds of uses for the stave, and in fact I used my stave for several things at CSDC. At BA22 we had to find and make our own. At JLT they were issued to all participants and staff who didn;t have one already. One of the things that was in the notebook at BA22 was a diagram with a bunch of cool uses for a scout stave: ruler, scale, hanging hook,surveying tool, etc. I always wanted to make one of those staves, and finally started it this past year, 21 years later. From the drawings, as well as from the speech BP gave, you were suppose to customize it and make it your own. Upon reflection while typing this response, and reading to my boys, it hit me: The WBers are acting like the scouts would at that age! yes some do go overboard, but they are acting like the kids they work with. I know that originally BP wanted SMs to have the outdoor skills and patrol method experiences that a patrol of scouts would have for WB. Maybe we are taking it scouting and WB in particular too seriously, and maybe some WBers have gone a little overboard and forgot that while scouting is fun, it's for the boys?

It's just swank, but I'll get at least one for my CS son b/c EVERYEONE will probably be wearing one. heck I might buy a second one for my collection. Doubt I'll wear it. Now if they come out with a buckle for the leather belt, from the pics on myscouting.org ti looks like they made a buckle for the OLD web belt, I'll wear. Heck i just busted out the 75th anniversary buckle to show people what and old fogey I am (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Ok I have to say this about Wbers. I know that there is a ot of anti WB bias b/c there are some WBers who say ' you aint' WB you ain't worth....." Yes I have met a few, and they have also ticked me off. But I've also met a bunch who were wonderful leaders and role models, not only to the youth, but also to new leaders. It's very unfortunate that the actions of a few hurt the good ones. I also know that the internet isn't the greatest communication vehicle as we are social and use expressive gesture and tone to relay info and the meaning of our words. Can't do that with typing. In rereading the BDPT's post, I think I understand where he's going now. he want's the input from WBers b/c they are the ones who have earned the beads. So he thinks it's fair to hear what they think. And I beleive it's a fair POV. As for me, I interjected into this thread b/c I do not wan tot forget those youth staffers, and the few non WB adults who do staff NYLT. And I say few non-WB adults, b/c in the 2 experiences I had, the only over 18 staff allowed to volunteer were those who went through the course as a youth, and I am one of those few non-WB adults wo did the program as a youth.

Oh and I forgot to mention that the way to earn respect is through your actions! Two best moments for me was hearing "We got ourselves a REAL DE," after sloshing through an Ordeal cermeony set up with the chapter ceremony team, and the "Look in the dictionary for Boy Scout and there is a picture of him in it" two weeks ago at CSDC.

A few thoughts. I've been in 5 lodges in my lifetime. 2 did have the OBV borders, the other three didn't. But for the two that did, it was a tradition, something that we should be mindful of. As for flaps in general, I do not want them to go away at all b/c it does readily ID an arrowman whenthey are not wearing a sash. the universal emblems are nice, and I've worn one in the past, but they are to small to see from a distance IMHO as shown by story above. Should we simplify our insignia, while I would say yes, the real folks to ask would be the youth themselves. I will say this, I remember my first conclave, and Colonneh Lodge which had the "chicken on a spit" flap was the butt of jokes becuase of the simplicity of it's design, to the point where the stage show said "Sorry Colonneh" when talking about all the flaps to be traded. Not very scoutlike upon reflection In reference to swank. yes some wear insignia fo rall the wrong reasons. Heck I include myself int hat statement when I was a young leader. Being a 21yo Chapter Adviser, some folks did not give me the courtesy that one would expect form scouters. I went after training knots with a passion b/c i thought that was the way to get that courtesy and respect. Wise man had to sit down with me and chat with me about the purpose of insignia. You see the "swank" is not meant to make you feel good, or impress people. The purpose of the patches is to show your achievements and INSPIRE people. I admit everytime I see a Philmont, NT, or FSB patch, it inspires me to go there someday, especialy when all three of my boys can go along too. Just as I know I have inspired folks to got to a jambo, or my favorite story, inspired someone to do the European Camp Staff Program. Yep I wear knots, all my unis save one have four, and only 3 have all five I've earned, I keep getting sidetracked with my son's uni, wife's uni, and OA regalia the purpose is to inspire the youth to get their religious award, AOL, and Eagle. And the purpose of the other two is get adults trained and get active to provide a better program for the youth.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

BDPT, Would you listen to my opinion if I told you that I went through the predecessors of NYLT, i.e. Brownsea 22 and staffed JLT ? As I stated numerous times, if there is a recognition to be given for staffing NYLT, it needs to be a nationally recognized item that is awarded for both youth and adult staff for the course, irregardless of whether the adult is WB trained or not. Soemthign specific to that course. If you are awarding a NYLT staff recognition only to WBers, what are the other staffers to think? Yes the courses are very similar, so similar in fact that I was advised by some WBers to wait a while to take WB since it is 99% to the JLT I staffed. And that is how national intended it to be. I also do not discredit the time commitment or challenges that NYLT staff. yes you do have some scouts mouthing back at ya, but you also haev other challenges (never, ever eat with a patrol that put youpine [sp] berries in the food;) ) Again I think that if a recognition is to be given, it should be given to ALL staffers, especially the youth.

One thing we just approved at the district comittee meeting last nite was having the OA create a 3-5 minute video promoting CSDC. I saw my old lodge's camp promo and it was very well done, and that gave me the original idea. Also the United Way agency I am a volunteer with, which still supports BSA programs I might add, also did a "homegrown" video for this year's campaign,a nd it was also well done. Maybe your chapter, and/or our lodge can do it?

Irsap, You got some great replys. The WBELEOS need to be asking these questions of the SPL, and PLs. In Boy Scouts, the youth should be running things, if not then the entire den need to RUN AWAY and find a troop that is youth run! I know that the adults will ask soem of the same questions of the adults, and as suggested do it in a separate area. In addition to the questions already offered, I would add the following 1) what type of training do you provide your youth leaders (that's the SMs primary job) 2) How do you mentor a youth leader when they fail at a task (Boy Scouts is about the youth learning through both their successes and their failures). 3) Why is it so important to have "organized chaos" at troop meeting b/c the youth are running it. Why can't the adults do things? or WhY is the patrol method so important, and why is it so "messy"? 4) What type of activities, especially high adventure activities, does the troop do? 5) can I sign up as an ASM ?

Nick, if the YOUTH want full uniform, then the YOUTH should enforce a uniform policy. A troop is supposed to be YOUTH run.

Actually we already have a dress uniform. it consists of black shoes, gray trousers/skirt,black belt, white shirt/blouse, blue blazer, universal insignia pocket nameplate (it is all in one and slips into the pocket of the coat)and the the BSA striped tie. An OA sash is authorized tobe worn with it, as well as Eagle, Venturing Silver, and the various neck awards. No patches though What I find funny is that the UK's uniform in the '90s consisted of a shirt and necker only for Cubs and Scouts. Venturers and leaders wore the same uniform and it included pants, belt, necker, etc. To be honest it looked odd to see scouts not wearing uniform trousers. But I come from a fully uniformed troop. Only one unit did,besides the Sea Scotus, and they all wore the same brown trousers. Now the Brits are going back to uniform trousers.