Eagle92

Prairie, I hear ya about being a trainer if you got the skills already. But the folks I know and have tried get to be trainers, are so active already, that they have unit activities already scheduled, or are having family commitments. I'll give you another example of a course I would love to have a challenge option: the two new Aquatics Supervisers courses. I've been both a BSA Lifeguard and YMCA Lifeguard instructor. And I've been teaching Swimming, Lifesaving, Rowing, and Canowing MBs for a numebr of years. In addtion to all that training, i've done 2 fifty-milers in canoes, a fifty miler in a sailboat, and taught kayaking in the UK. Think I know a little about both aquatics and paddlesports. 16 hours may not seem like a lot of time to get those two certifications, but I'm involved on the pack and district level. And then add in OA activities when I get the opportunity, it's one hectic year i got ahead of me. Don't know when it will go into effect, but according to these new requirements, I'm no longer qualified to take a troop or crew out, but I can teach them the MBs and skilsl to takwe them out.

8A is going to hold your son up ?!?!?!?!?! I think your son needs to have chat with his PL to see if that is going to hold him up. Then have the son move up to the SPL, then SM. If SM says 'yep you have to wait," then either A) get involved, or B) switch troops.

Hal, I hear ya, but sometimes other commitments do come into play. As much as I love scouting, I couldn't do the schedule I did when I was in college without getting a divorce (What do you mean you got 8 weekends straight of camping !) You got folks who have the skills and knowledge already, but for whatever reason can't make it to the training. understand their benefits toeveryone, saw it myself first hand, but sometimes that is not possible. I tried to get them to staff events, btu it isn't always possible. I'll give ya an example. Good friend is a Crew Adviser and ASM. He's fully trained as an Adviser, including WB, but isn't fully trained as an ASM becasue he's never gone through IOLS because of scheduling. In addition his troop and crew activities, he's highly involved in the OA,a nd his daughter's GS troop. Oh Forgot to mention that he is a registered and trained MBC for the following: Camping, Backpacking, Pioneering, Wilderness Survival, and Cooking MBs.

You're right, long day at work.

EV, I was typing as you posted. In my situation, it was for Life. You are correct the SM's conference isn't pass or fail, but it is suppose to be an honest assessment of not only the scout, but also the troop program. It is to be used as a mentoring and counseling tool. And we didn't make him wait 6 months, the scout was counseled, came up with an improvement plan, and then went for the BOR about 2 or three months later. Now for the situation in the OP, I would like to know details and how the process is going about for the Life Scouts. As for the poster's son, I would like to know what requirement is missing that will take so long to meet, and I bet it is Req. 7B.

It was part of the SM conference, and related to his duties as a PL. The young man in my situation was super knowledgable, but had difficulties relaying that knowledge to his patrol. Lots of arguing and bickering in the patrol as his peers didn't view him as a PL,for a variety of reasons. Also the rest of the PLC also didn't take him seriouly as he was the youngest member at 12. Biggest reason was that there were times when he was responsible for something that he would goof off on. Yes it's reasonable for a 12 year old to act like such, heck I know adults who act 12 at times , but there is a time and a place for that. Part of the mentoring we, the SM and all the ASMs inclduign dad, wanted was some improvement in his new role as TG. TGs have alot of the same responsibilities. The mentoring and counseling did help, and it did make him a better leader.

I am all for having advance outdoor training, I for one think it's needed,a nd needed badly. BUT, please, please PLEASE let there be a "challenge option" where folks who do have those skills already can take a skills test to show that we have it, instead of having to take courses for stuff we already know and do. That was my biggest complaint when I took the outdoor portion of SMF, now IOLS. Been there, done that, taught the skills to others, and have the T-shirt and patches.

In reference to holding back ranks, once they meet the requirements, they are ready for the BOR. Now a SM conferecne is needed, and if a SM thinks a Scout isn't ready and needs more maturing, then that is the time and place for the socut to be informed. Also, for lack of a better term, "improvement plan' be worked aout between the two and worked on. Now I was involved with a decision to advise a young man that he needed some "seasoning" before earning Life. The SM wanted the opinion and input from all his ASMs, including the young man's father, and almost all of us agreed he needed some seasoning. the key was how the SM presented it to the scout. If it was perceived as being "held back" then that is obviously negative and detrimental to all concerned. The way it was recommended, and followed up by the SM was in a 'constructive criticism" with a plan to improve. He noted that the scout had all the skills and knowledge to be Life, but that the challenge was his interactions with the other scouts. Since he was a "fast mover," i.e. 12.5 years old and Star, he needed to work on his interatcions with both the younger and older youth. the Scout and the SM talked about ideas to improve this sitation, giving a timeline on whenhe maybe ready and things worked out. Only complaint I had was that I moved before he eventually got his Eagle. As for your son and the 2nd class requirements, may i ask which one? If it is the swimming requirement, that may be the challenge. While 7A is easy to do, and I believe the scout can earn the Safe Swim Defense certifaction online (don't quote me on that), 7B, which is the Beginner Swim test, and that should have been done at summer camp. In my neck of the woods, if you don't do it at sumemr camp, it can be a pain in the buttocks to find a place to do it at. The Swimmer test, 75 feet using a forward stroke, 25 feet using a back stroke, float for a minute, is required for First class. We had one guy goofing off during the swim test at camp his first year. Didn't think it was important as he wasn't takign any aquatics MBs. Well it comes time for him to go for First class and he discovers that he needed to pass that test after all. BUT he had to wait until we could find a pool to do it. Good luck.

John, Would a poly wool blend work for ya? http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&C3=USHIRTS&C4=&LV=3&item=695BSSSS&prodid=695BSSSS^8^01RTL& and http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&C3=USHIRTS&C4=&LV=3&item=696BSLSS&prodid=696BSLSS^8^01RTL& Looks like they have the BSA strip sewed on, the flag is a patch instead of a sticker, the pcokets are flat, AND NO SMOKES POCKET! Left pocket is still sew down all the way, btu a seam ripper solves that problem. Still no pocket buttons.

When I said the DAC makes the calls to MBCs, I should specify that it is to those MBCs who are not registered to troops or crews. Troops and crews are told to send in their list of MBCs, with new ones filling out both the standard application and MBC form described above, at RT. the the DAC calls those folks not with units, or don't attend RT, district committee meetings, or district commish meetings. It is usually a handful of MBCs that needs to be called.

If you are willing to give it a few more months, AND invest in some resources, get a copy of the 3rd. ed. SM handbook, it's a 2 volume set. Got mine as a bday gift and it is phenomenol. In it has a section on starting a new troop and the process it will take to get them up to par. It takes 6-12 months if memory serves. there is also a section on training the PLs and SPL. Since your troop is so small, you may be able to combine both sections of the book to jumpstart your troop. One thing, as a CC, your job is support the troop, not run the program of the troop. SM needs to do that. SM needs to get the youth started and doing things, not the CC. Yep the SM needs to show them a time or two how to do things, BUT eventually the scouts need to do it on their own, and be allowed to succeed or fail on their actions. failure can be a great teacher and motiovator. As for travelling. I was one of those that bypassed the local units, one of which met 4 houses from mine, to find the right troop for me in the next town. If need be, it is worth it!

Actually tying a Tie is still a CS requirement, wolf or bear I beleive.

Nick, It is essential that everyone has a basic degree of aswimming, especially in scuting as there are so many aquatic possibilities. I did drown when I was younger, they had to do CPR and call EMS to resuscitate me, and I was terrified of the water for years. yes I had lessons and could do well inthe shallow end, but get me chin deep in water and I would panic. When I crossed over into scouting, my mom gave me a choice: learn how to swim and remain in scouting, or get out of scouting. At the time it seamed cruel, but in the long run it was best. If I didn't knwo how to swim, I would not have gotten past 2nd Class, I would not have been abel to go on troop canoeign trips, I would not have been abel to do the 2 fifty-milers with the BSA, I would not have been a Sea Scout, I wouldn't have earned BSA Lifeguard, i wouldn't have been able to go kayaking in the English Channel with the 5th Deal Sea Scouts, and I can go on. My life would not have been the same as I would have been deprived of a myriad of opportunties, all because i couldn't pass a swimmer's test.

Oh and they got rid of the smokes' pocket.

Well at least the BSA strip and flag are sewn own.

Actually I believe GBB is mentioned, and better yet I thought I saw some of his passages lifted from previous editions in toto. Also I believe some of BP's artwork is in the book, but not much. From the glancing I've done of it, it seems better than the previous two editions. And it appears to be 110% better than the 1970s ed. I like the use of artwork and photos. I liek the fact that it's topic oriented instead of advancement oriented. the Again I'm old fashioned. don't care how long ti takes to get First Class, as long as you are having fun and learning something.

If memory serves, a MBC is supposed to be registered every year. HOWEVER once they fill out the application and MBC form, the one that says which MBs you teach and how is your expereince in it gained i.e. job, training, avocation, they are placed on the DISTRICT COMMITTEE's charter. The DAC is then suppose to call around and see who is still teaching what, and if they will teach anyone or limit it to specific units. THEN the when district recharter comes, you either keep them on the district charter, or scratch them off. Upon reflection, they might be something coming out of national on this, btu don't quote me on that. I know I was a MBC last year, and now I am no longer registered as such. I had to fill out the MBC form and place my ID number on it as I am a multiple. As to the guy who asked if the MBs from non-registered MBCs are valid, that is a SM call. If the situation described happened to me, IMHO they are still valid as 1) You recrutied them and know their expertise 2) the SM did give them the MBC's info in good faith that they were still registered, and 3) the scout did the work in good faith that the MBC was registered. Better to err on the side of the Scout than not. Besides, how is the council to know who the MBC was since all they receive is the Advancement report?

I think it's a bad move for two reasons. #1 it reminds me of national's attempt of a field uniform in the 1990s. Wasn't popular as it was viewed as anotehr expense. We need 1, repeat ONE, field uniform. What about those scouts that units use this alternaticve uniform, but when they go to national events like Jambo or NOAC will need a Field Uniform, not the alternate. Secondly this line has me concerned The initiative is an effort to appeal to kids who represent a diverse, varied cross-section of America youth. The field uniform will have a look for todays adolescent and teen age youth who may not want to be seen in public in a traditional [emphasis added] Boy Scout uniform This worries me b/c it sounds as if national is gonna reattempt the 1970s all over again I know we lost alot of folks with the"new Scouting" of the 70s, and was very fortunate to come in with GBB's handbook and the traditional program. this really sounds as if they are gonna try it again, and it will hurt. Kids that go into scouting want the adventure and excitement, even the little ones. Heck the pack I'm with is hearing compalints fromt e4h Cubbs that they want to camp more Heck my own Tiger is bugging me about when he will go camping again, esp at a council camp You take the outing out of scouting and our numbers will truly fall, instead of fall from inflated figures In reference to the Centennial uniform, look on the inside back cover of the New handbook, and you will see the emblem placement was not revised to show a smokes pocket. Could national be listening finally?

Well I don't knwo about the bellows pocket going away, but it does look as if the smokes pocket is. I just noticed ont eh inside cover of the new BSHB that I got today that the inside back cover has the diagram showing the pre-Centennial Uniform diagram for the CSP, vet bar, unit number, POR emb, and trained strip.

Person to talk to would be the SPL and/or the PLC. I beleive the recommendation is to haev 1 uniform inspection a year by the commissioner staff. However units can conduct them at any time. My old troop had an inspection every weekm as that was part of the inter-patrol competition. Another troop I was a leader with did them 1 per month.

Looks like their maybe yet another uniform out there. http://www.baltimorebsa.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?orgkey=2271&itemkey=1385 my personal opinion is that there need to be only 1 field uniform, not two. I remember when national came out with the activity uniform in the 90s, not real popular.

Ok I am a book collector and just bought the new HB. It is actually a HB and a "Centennial Timeline" Now much time to read, just got out of a leaders meeting and am headed off on a family trip but a few quick comments. New HB does bring back some of the beautiful artwork from the past and I love it. A bit on chivalry is included and also like. Overall I love the use of photos and old artwork. AND I think I may have met one of the photographers, so it adds a personal touch for me. Companion book also looks good. It even mentions Star Wars in the time line. Only errors I've found are the 1984 version of the Webelos HB in the 1940s, and they said thhe 1995 WSJ theme was "Future is Today" when it's actually "Future is Now." More comments to come.

Hopefully no one will really pay attention to the CNN transcript where the wife says that the everything was boy scout related. Unfortunately the guy was registered for a time with one of the NC councils. We all know that what was going on was WAY beyond G2SS and has nothing to do with the movement. BUT you have folks out there who don't know better.

Do not why nation made the prohibition on Webelos at camporees, but that is from the top. I do know that my old council had Encampments where ALL registered members were invited to attend: Cubs, scouts, venturers, and yes even a law enforcement Explorer post (they handled parking and first aid). We would have betweeen 10 and 12 thousand attend. My current council is going to this format for the anniversary: All members are invited to an encampment. If successful, it may be continued

It depends upon how the troop operates. In my old troop growing up, ALL parents were de facto members of the committee, whether they registered or not. They could help out with BORs, fundraising, campouts etc. If memory serves, you do not have to be a registered member of the BSA to be on a district EBOR. Sorry don't have the advancement book here, but I know that not all members of the district EBOR in my district are registered.