Eagle92

I am guessing that you are not finding many, for lack of a better term, "change of command," ceremonies for adults is because it is a youth run program. If you really wanted to do something like this, I would have the SPL and the PLC come up with something and have them administer 'oaths of office" to the adults in SM and ASM roles.. You would really be surprised at what these guys can come up with.

Prairie, Coudn't find a strip the exact color AND not being used:) Wife volunteered her embroidery services. As for the American flag, a flag patch will sewed on shortly.

I actually did alter my centennial uniform. I took off the button from the flap, sewed it onto the pocket, made a buttonhole, and covered it up with my lodge flap. No one can tell I modified the uniform. Also you know the wife loves when she embroiders "Boy Scouts of America" onto the shirt. from 3 feet away, it isn't noticable, but up close it is.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Back in the day, Webelos WAS a 1 year program. I know they added some more activity badges, but all they really did if memory serves is add age requirements, nothing else to spread the activities over the 18 to 24 month period. And I have seen gung ho Webelos complete everything within a year. The other thing is, b/c of the age requirements for AOL and school related ages( you have to be born before X day to be in this grade) I have seen folks who become Webelos June 1, and b/c of their late birthdays, say a Novemebr bday, they are eligible to receive their AOL and Crossover into scouting with only 1 year of Webelos.

In the imoprtal words of Charlie Brown, "Good Grief!"

As a TCDL, I have mixed emotions on thsi topic. On one hand I am glad that my son is now old enough to be a CS and can start on some of the adventures i had as a youth. Better yet I can give him som of the opportunties i did not have as a CS like CSDC and overniters. However being involved on the troop and district level for so long, I do see the burn out among youth and adults. A lot of youth view Webelos as the end of the trail, not the beginning that it is. As for adults, It is very, very, hard to convert them form adult run and organized, to youth run and organized. They want to jump in b/c theya have been trained for 5 years to do so. That is why I think WDLs have one of the toughest jobs in scouting: getting the YOUTH to realize that the fun truly begins at the BS level, getting the YOUTH to take more resposnibility, getting the PARENTS to understand that this is a time of transition and the youth need to and CAN step up to the plate (mistakes and all), and THEMSELVES to slowly back away to let the youth do more things and prep them for hte patrol mehtod and the troop. Maybe it's overkill on my part, maybe it's ego, but I have talked to CS and their parents already about the differences between the CS and BS programs, how the adventure truly begins at the BS level, and how the model troop meeting is organized chaos. I want them to know,a nd dream about those adventures ahead. One patch I saw in the UK, and I would love for it to be made asa temp patch for BS and Venturing leaders here. It's a pic of a fully uniformed leader with hands in pocket giving a shrug with a caption that reads: "Don't ask me, I'm only a leader."

Great post Nick!

Southeast Louisiana Council's Salmen Scout Reservation (S2R) Grace We thank Thee Lord For all that's good For food, For life For brotherhood For friends and family near and far And for the fellowship of S Square R

When i came back to my current lodge, when I first heard about the black robes, I was skeptical. that's b/c I've seen some lodges do great jobs with lines, but poor jobs on doing research on regalia. Heard they patterned the regalia after OATC. Still a little skeptical, until I saw it. IT LOOKS GOOD!. When my chapter does get a brotherhood ceremony team together, they will be worn again.

A conversation I'm having with our old friend Bob White on another site reminded me of something. BP in a speech entitled "Another Message to Scouts" found here http://www.thescoutingpages.org.uk/speeches.html basically states that while we do wear uniforms and badges, which he calls swank, we shuld not be "swanky" or show offy, rather we need to let our actions speak for us. While it is geared to scouts, I bet leaders could get something out of it.

Some of the folks I met at NCS go and get certified to run theings year round at their council camp. One COPE staffer made his job Team Building int he corporate world, and used his COPE experience to create his company and business. Other middle agers i've seen are teachers, and this is their summer job. heck some of them get their wives and children involved. A very good friend of mine has worked at Philmont, and had his wife and sons also workgin their. I believe one of the sons met his wife working at Philmont, btu don't quote me on that.

Sherm, Correct the switch from BSA ribbons to knots was around 1948 I believe. But if memory serves you could wear both Service service ribbons and BSA knots a little longer. We had a crusty old MGySgt in a vintage uniform with both knots and service ribbons in my old council. He wore that uniform only on special occasions: council banquet, and Cathlic Committe on Scouting mass with the archbishop. Great guy, and while he wore a lot of swank on his uniform, he was a scout for over 60 years, he let his actions speak. Every first year camper at summer camp for over 15 years knew him, and looked up to him as a role model and mentor. He was a great mentor to me and many others. RIP "Sarge."

back int he dark ages when I got my Eagle, I had an Army LtCol in uniform, a Marine Corps League member in their uniform, and my old SPL in his Navy uniform present certificates to me. Also had several council level scouters there in uniform Agree the more in uniform the better!

I don't beleive anyone is comparing BSA knots to military ribbons, we all knwo which ones mean more. However the BSA knots are based upon military ribbons. If you look at photos of BP, he wore his military ribbons from the Imperial Army. Also if memory serves, the BSA issued ribbons similar to military ribbons to recognize youth and volunteers for their service and recognitions, just as the military does. BSA also allowed miltary service ribbons to be worn. However sometime in the 1940s the BSA changed from ribbons to knots, but still allowed the military service ribbons until the 1950s. Just as BSA knots do not mean a person is perfect, so too with the sservice member waering military ribbons. Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, USMC (Ret.), a Medal of Honor recipient, once said "Show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum." That said, whether you have rows of knots, or no knots at all, LET YOUR ACTIONS WITH AND FOR THE YOUTH SPEAK FOR YOU! (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Mike, Yep I know they are based on the repros. My lodge also has 1 set of regalia tbased upon the orginal regalia worn by the OA: black robes. Three of the guys who created OATC are from my lodge and one of which is a historian. He's came up with it for OATC and my chapter decided to imitate it. Black sashes are also his idea I presume.

Seen it done before and wouldn';t haev aproblem with it.

BP, I believe the problem is the council's disregard for national by-laws. Don't think nay of use are trying to be blow hards, but are stunned by this council's decision. As for the OP, I think we are agreed that a 18-20 yo female ASM, or any 18-20yo ASM can be a valuable resource to any troop.

BP Actually the national policy does affect the young lady as under OA policy she is a youth and needed to be First class. This is the very reason I wish national policy in reference to age be unified, having one age of adult hood for CS and BS, btu another for venturing and OA does create major confusion. Look at sleeping arrangements one lodge had at NOAC: youth under 18, youth 18-20, male adults, female adults. And let's not get into COs that have troops and crews, and how the ages can affect that. You cuold have two great friend who go to school together, but as soon as one turns 18, they can no longer ten together until the other one turns 18 6 months later.

I'ld wear a kilt, preferably Macloed of Lewis, but Maclauren would be cool.

Let me rephrase, I would not have a problem with youth female OA members. National has said for the moment, hopefully b/c the youth want it this way and not a bunch of old fogeys like me, that anyone under 21 must have held First class. Once national changes the policy, i would not have a problem with it. As for the point that she shouldn't be a member, concur b/c she doesn't meet the current eligibility requirements. as for MM, medicine man. To my knowledge I do not believe any Native American nation had medicine women, But with over 500 different groups, anyone saying they know it all is a liar b/c traditions differ from nation to nation. As for female chiefs and warriors, the Houma of SE Lousiana had both, and the Cherokee of OK had a female principle chief.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Let's just say BB guns in the UK, and German Scouts; after that experience I thought i knew why we won WWII

College Scoutere Reserve may or may not be active still. I knew about it, and when I googled it to see if it still exists, the earliest info comes out from 1996. If it still exists, it's a great program as we had an Eagle Scout in my old troop registered in it.Then again, we may have kept him on the troop charter.

BP, Just stating what national has said. Me personally, I don't have a problem, but I remember the uproar it caused when female leaders were allowed in. HMMM would be some interesting ceremonies if the ladies did them. None could be the MM to the best of my knowledge, but a few tribes have had female chiefs and warriors. Also the ladies couldn't sit at the drum, behind and the men.

This is what I wear, the two hats issued to me by my old council, one for completing BA22 and the other for staffing JLT. They are both US military surplus, and cost about $19-$25 dollars. I forgot how much the offical BSA hatband is, but I got mine in the UK for about $12 ( approx 6 pounds) and then branded them at the first camp I worked at. The nicer of the two, the one i save for indoor stuff and ceremonies, has a BSA chinstrap, about $8. The other one that has gone through a tropical storm, is very well worn, and been shot at (don't ask)has a leather bootlace for a chin strap. I've also seen one guy wear a beaded hatband instead of a leather one, LOOKED SWEET! But i don't have the time finish beading my feather drops for my dance regalia, let alone time to bead a hatband.

DR77, Funny you should mention the hat and full size necker. I've worn my European neckers and a campaign hat to every pack function save one (wore the sea scout uni and a pirate hat to promote CSDC), and the youth think the hat is cool and the other leaders like the full length neckers and are working on a custom one. Price of the hats are a little scary, esp. since we have leaders who have lost their job, so they are thinking of a custom hat instead. Still a few want the smokey instead. One person can make a difference