Eagle92

District events for Cub Scouts: Cubmobile (Oct) Pinewood Derby (January) Webeloree (March usually, may be April this year) Day Camp ( June) District Events for Boy Scouts: District Camporee (Oct.) District Events for Both: Memorial Day Service Project Council Events for Cubs: Resident camp (August) Camp Boddie CS Family Camp Out (Oct) Camp Charles Family Camp Out ( usually Oct, this year Nov. And this is the Better of the two camp outs ) District Events for Boy Scouts: District Camporee Council Events for Boy Scouts: Aquatics Weekend (Aug) Hornaday Award Weekend (Sept) Chowan University MB College (Oct) Shooting/Climbing Weekend ( Oct) another Hornaday Award Weekend (NOV) Eagle Outdoor Weekend ( Nov) Wintercamp (January) another Hornaday Award Weekend (Feb) Plunder of the Pamlico Fishing Tournament ( Mar; including it with BS although it's open to anyone b/c it's on moving water, verboten for Cubs) Council Camporee ( April) Barton College MB Day ( May) another Hornaday Award Weekend (MAY) June and July = Summer camp Council events for both: Camp Charles Fishing Derby ( Sept) Scouting for Food (February) As you can see, my council is heavily focused on Boy Scouts. Then again, I have been told by a member of the council camping committee that "Cubs don't need to camp." Also a lot of district and council folks focus on Boy Scouts, and forget everyone else. Even had one dist. person say that in a Cub Scout Event- Boy Scout event conflict, Cubs need to change the date since Boy Scouts have priority.

Actually saw the SPL's meeting plan. An hour spent on a MB ( skills and patrol time) and the interpatrol activity for 30 minutes is a COH?!?!?!?!!?

I remember those tenure requirements and wish we still had them today. Rationale: fokls actually had some time in grade so to speak to master the skills needed for the next rank. But with 1989's "Operation First Class," I'm seeing a rush to Eagle, and a "One and Done" mentality.

Fred, TPF, what use to be known as WOODS WISDOM in my day, is an example of "Stealth Advancement" i.e. you are working on the stuff as part of your normal routine. But that is not happening. And it appears from what I'm reading that the new parents are the ones doing all of the work and planning, not the scouts. Using TPF, they should even be at that stage yet.

I ask because one of the units in the district is starting to do this more and more. And this was the unit that was on their way to being 100% boy run to boot. They got a new SM with about a year as ASM but 2 years as CM, and a lot of parents who were CS leaders. This was after the original SM stepped down b/c he thought the troop was ready. I think it is slowly turning inthe opposite direction. They've done 4 MBs at meeting over the past year. And another one is set up for 4 meetings over the next 2 months. Now grant you the communications I am seeing are from adults on FB, which is another concern of mine, (why are adult planning thing and getting MB counselors), but I know FB does have age restrictions, and that may explain why I am seeing mostly adults posting. I am hoping to Talk to some scouts when oldest's den goes camping with them ina a month and a half.

Ok I admit it's been a while since I did SM Fundamentals, and taught SM Specific, about 5-6 years now, but I was told that the MB classes over a series of meetings is now mentioned in training in order to meet the needs of the scouts, and families since the kids these days have so much going on. Rationale was if you want to keep them coming back, you have to move away from some of the traditional ways of doing things. Wanted to know if this was true or not. I understand adapting, improvising, and using resources to meet the needs of the scouts. Heck I modify my den plans from the new Den planning book all the time. But something just bothers me about MB classes at meetings. Don't know if it is the taking away of the patrol method, or the idea of going contacting adults, some of whom you may not know on your own, and meeting with them with your buddy. I admit my most of MBs were either earned at summer camp, or "stealth advancement" in that we were doing the stuff as part of regular program and the MBC signed it off. Only 2 involved actually meeting with an MBC on my own initiative: Liefesaving MB (and that was to talk to the MBC on whether he would accept my lifeguard certification or not) and Personal management. The one MB class at a troop meetings my troop did caused some issues as it pulled the bulk of the older scouts away from running the meeting. Did it for 6-8 meetings and never did it again.

None to my knowledge have left b/c of the policy. Reasons I've been told are the following: Moving Sports Only joined to get the Round Up joining prize (that's one expensive Hot Wheels car for the past few years) Pack doesn't camp enough for us. I have had several families say they would quit if BSA changed the decision. Now when Scouting for All was protesting outside of a council office I worked at shortly after Dale v. BSA, the council actually got calls from folks to find out where packs were located. Folks didn't know the policy and/or BSA won the Dale decision and wanted their kids in the program. Finally when it was announced that SCOTUS was going to hear the Dale case, we had one CO decide they no longer wanted the pack, and would not start the troop that was in the process of forming, despite my talks with them about how they have the final decision on who is a leader in their unit even if BSA lost Dale, which they believed would happen. They said it didn't matter about their leaders, what about other units' leaders at multi-unit functions.

One thing I did last year, and will do my best to repeat, was hold my den meetings outside while the weather is nice. Last year we did a campfire with storytelling for one of the Bear requirements. Problem was that we got inundated with new Tigers and Wolves, and we had 3/5 of the pack around my campfire. Good news was that we have enough marshmellows. bad news was that we didn't have enough sticks or space fore everyone to roast at one time. As Green Bar Bill said, "SCOUTING IS OUTING!"

'Skip, Unfortunately that is the mentality that many new leaders on this side of the pond have. Between the "First Class, First Year" or whatever the heck they are calling it now, and the way some of the training syllabi have things stated, it's one and done.

These are my thoughts and don't take it personally OH HECK NO! I DON'T WANT TWO EAGLES AS DEN CHIEFS FOR THE SAME DEN BECAUSE YOU NEED TO SPREAD THE DEN CHIEF LOVE! If you are aging out around CROSSOVER, get with the Webelos II. And let the other Eagle work with the group that needs the most help. As for how much responsibility you can handle? Need to talk to the DL to A) make sure that he knows how to use you ( that was a pet peeve of mine, not being used properly but trwated as another Cub) and B) Both you and the DL and ADL have a common goal and know what's going on. I had a 13 yo Life Scout as my DC and I was very comfortable letting him run things. In fact I got called away from a my meeting by the CM, and I let him run it and my new ADL assist him. Now I did have to reign him in one time. I asked him to do a presentation on camping, emphasizing some "old school, stuff from home equipment" since we had a bunch of new folks. Problem was he was showing off some of his cool gear he just got from selling his pigs (and yes even I was drooling at some of it). I had to remind him, but what if you didn't have all those wonderful toys, what do you do. And that settled matters. Now I'll let you judge how effective he was. 1) My den basically followed him like puppies on some trips 2) My guys hated losing him to the Webelos IIs who needed someone with outdoor expereince. 3) My Guys know about the OA and can't wait to get elected, with one wanting to be a dancer. 4) One of my den saw the Youtube.com video the DC made on his survival shelter. He then proceeds to building one in my back yard. I LOVE DEN CHIEFS!

Somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about (but says it loudly anyway) and really doesn't see much value in Cub Scouts as a distinct program with multiple goals in addition to "steady pipeline to the troop" is going to be a problem and piss off hard-working cub leaders to no end. So Lisa, when did you move to my council Seriously though, it took all of my self control to stop myself from slapping someone silly over their "Cubs don't need to camp" comments, and he's a friend of mine too. But he no longer deals with Cubs, and hasn't in at least 9 years.

Old, Had a similar conversation to your last post tonite. Camporee chief wanted to get back to basics with the camporee, and firebuilding will be one of the events, barring a fire ban (and I have a feeling we may have some wiggle room with the event and still do it legally IF one of the SMs can pull some strings ) he was talking about how scouts can't seem to do it, and I told him of the camporee where only one patrol, it was from troop too, were the only ones who could build a fire, light it, boil water to cook spagetti, and tie a square knot with it. The look on his face was one of shock.

'732, From what I've read and heard, it's because of all the lawsuits.

Well, who are they and what is their Sea Scout experience? Seriously in my limited experiences with Irving, only 3 folks knew anything about Sea Scouts: Holmes, Christopher, and Christopher's secretary ( sorry forgot her name). And even then their experiences are not as unit leaders, but as national level support folks. But if I am wrong, please let me know and I will send ya that cake. I actually would love to be wrong on this.

B, I know what the GTA says about Bridges of Review. But I am willing to bet a DEATH BY CHOCOLATE Dutch oven cake that the folks who wrote those policies know nothing about Sea Scouts, and how things are done in that program. I also know what actually happens having sat through 2, and what other Sea Scouts and leaders have been through and done.

Pamlico Sea Base, website found at eccbsa.org under camping tab, is an accredited HA program that offers kayaking as one of their programs. Also offers sailing, SCUBA, and jet skis. And yes that was PSB on the cover of SCOUTING with the jetskis

'732, Sadly I've seen scouts and leaders, one of whom SHOULD know better as he has taught LNT and other environmental/conservation courses for over 40 years, leave fires unattended. he says it's OK since it's in a fire ring, no combustables within 5 or 10 feet, etc etc. Beav, The folks who resist LNT are usually the ones who have, for lack of a better word, "extremists" instructors who really do not know how to work with folks. My first intro into LNT outside of Scouting had one of those and I was very anti LNT for a while because of that course. Sad thing was, I couldn't get up and leave like I wanted to as the course was part of my training program for a job I held. More later

Bnelon, A couple of quick questions for ya since you seem to be in the know about this. 1) You stated the survey is computer adaptive based upon your answers, is that the case? 2) I noticed none of the questions asked about Sea Scouts, where they left out again? 3) If computer adaptive,I left out a unit level leadership position, Mate or Skipper(don't ask, I didn't know I was registered with the ship until after the fact, and I never got a clear answer on the exact position. Would that affect why I had no questions on Sea Scouts? 4) #3 is yes, should I redo, focusing on Sea Scouts to get those answers? From what I read of the G2A, the only thing the committee got right is that there are no alternatives for Sea Scout ranks. They completely missed the fact that Sea Scouts do have mandatory attendance requirements, 75% of unit functions if memory serves, for X amount of time. Also a Sea Scout BOR is very different from an BS BOR in that they can retest you for information.

Is the pin really that important or is it just another geegaw for the uniform?

What outdoor activities do you do? Camping is very popular, in fact i lost a family b/c we didn't camp enough for them. Other things we have done are special overnighters: NC Zoo, NC Aquarium, USS YORKTOWN, etc. Can't wait for USS NORTH CAROLINA to have overnighters, just pray they run them like the USS KIDD did in Baton Rouge, LA i.e. tour guide assigned to your group and takes you on tour as long as your groups wants and includes areas not open during the regular tours, i.e engine rooms. Had the Order of the Arrow come in and give a performance. May need to get them since the lodge is #1...in Northern Singing Raingutter Regatta is also a good one. Also we have a "sports nite" of kickball or basketball between the den meeting when final advancements are due, and the last pack meeting of the year. Also what are some of the activities that your district and council offer? I know of several units in my district who do not take advantage of any of the council activities: resident camp, day camp, family camp, cubmobile, Webeloree, etc.

Either A) I spent too much time reviewing the book and service project workbook before commenting, B) I'm an opinionated old fogey who wrote a lot of critques, or C) All the Above, But it took me 1:35 minutes to do that survey. 20 minutes, YEAH RIGHT. EDITED: thanks for the link!(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

MN, Must respectfully disagree with you on campfires not providing heat. My life was probably saved when I got hypothermia on a HA trip in the Canadian wilderness as the fire was used to warm me up and dry clothes as well. Besides, LNT does not, stressing NOT, prohibit fires. Check out this link for LNT's policy on fires. http://lnt.org/learn/principle-5

If memory serves, NPS tried to close access to some parks in NC. But it's not just the NPS, states too have limits on fires in parks and with fire bans. It's been so bad, that when I asked why only one patrol could build a fire, light it, and boil watert to tie a noodle into a square knot at a camporee, the rationale I was given was no one can build fires anymore between campgrounds and parks banning them, and fire bans due to weather conditions.

Why I wish they would issue one color pin like they use too.

There are different types of camping for Cubs. here are some of the main ones. Day Camps are one to multiple day events where no overnight camping is done, and a set of National Standards are met. Resident Camps are 2-4 day events, if I'm not mistaken, where the Cubs stay overnite, and a set of National Standard are met. Council Family Camp Outs are 2-3 day events with two or more packs camping together. So if your pack goes camping with another, technically it is a council family camp out. There are National Standards for these, but not as strict as Res Camp. Pack Camping is just that. Webelos Den Camping. Only Webelos Dens can camp on their own. part of the transisiotn to Boy Scouts.