Eagle92

Brent, I could have swore you were in Louisiana with that description od Scouts coming form other activities with uniforms in hand. That's how it was in my old troop.

Kahuna, While I have noticed some of the old photos, I've also noticed an attempt at uniformity, i.e. wearing military uniform pants and leggings. Now when I worked supply division, it was in a town that about 1/3-1/2 of the youth population was in private school where uniforms were the norm. Several schools wore blue uniform pants that very closely matched the CS pants. So I could understand the packs chartered by those schools to be ok with the school uniform pants. But jeans?

I've been thinking and thinking on this topic for sometime now. As most of you know, I'm big on uniforming and think it's important. But I've noticed that you are seeing more and more folks with incomplete uniforms. Look at some of the pictures on Scoutstuff.org's Facebook page,and BSA's pictures and you see lots of incomplete uniforms, without any attempt to find something similar. Now I know some folks don't have the finanical resources to buy new uniforms, I was one of those scouts growing up, but there were thrift stores for a bunch of stuff. Now I know pants would be harder to find, a lot of folks would cut them into shorts once they got damaged at the knees, but in my old troop an attempt to be uniformed was expected and yes you did have a few scouts like myself wearing army surplus pants in an attempt to be uniform. But I am seeing folks wearing jeans to their ECOHs, and my council has even put out info stating that uniform pants are dependant upon the units. So when did you folks notice the decline of uniforming?

Short, It doesn't even have to be in a separaret room. The leader I discussed earlier was in the outdoors, on a camp trail, I believe between the showerhouse and her tent,when she ran into the "scout" after hours sneaking about and was accused of making a pass. BSA takes the side of the youth over the adults as a CYA. YP is VERY important, and I've dealt with serious YP issues at camp. But sometimes a little investigating should be done by the proper authorities, i.e. my friend being accused by a known liar, and the case of the adult striking a scout in self defense. Luckily in the latter case, it was witnessed by the entire troop.

That's why I made a few modifications to the uniform. I made a button hole on the flap, and placed the button on the pocket. Covered the modification with my lodge flap, and Bob's your uncle, problem solved.

Emb, Why does that sound like typical Venturing?

Big Sky, If you like the centennial necker, and get them now b/c National is out of them, then you'll like the fact that national is comng out with the larger sizes next year. At least according to their Facebook postings.

Glad another unit wears neckers, hopefully you will enjoy the larger ones that national supply has said will be coming out soon. Yep you tuck in the collar with the necker over it. Don't like the uner the collar option, esp. with the current lot of small neckers, as it looks funny. As for buttoning the top button, With the "Elvis" collars of the new shirts, I find it challenging to tuck the collar in and keep it looking nice. I've found that if you do button thetop button A) the neck size is off so it is loose around the neck and B) the necker looks better.

2cub, I told you so Do more backpacking and extand the range of your trips. AND watch the adults fall by the wayside except for your hardcores who hopefully get it.

Beavah brings up a very good point about CS leaders moving up to BS leaders, they sometimes don't get it. they have, hopefully, been trained at least 3 times: TCDL, CSDL, & WDL, to be in charge organize things, yada yada yada, and been doign it for so long that it becomes second nature. To paraphrase Yoda, they have much to unlearn. I'm just as guilty and hope my problem doesn't get any worse. I am transitioning into CS mode, and at the last OA meeting I went to, I was being one of those cut-in adults.

Oak, One challenge that I see that may come up is when mandatory training comes about in the next year or two and SCOUTNET doesn't have the records in them. I'll give you an example. I was not considered trained according to SCOUTNET records 3 years ago, but i've been through all the basic leader training, save Venturing as grandfather clasue is gone I'm told and Sea Scout. I did Explorer Basic Leader training, CS basic Leader training, and SMF, among a bunch of others. I got my Scouter's Training Award way back when, which also means I am a trained ASM. BUT scoutnet had no records of me completing trainging or earning any awards. So in two years when mandatotry training comes about, If my records are not staight, I may be listed as untrained and dropped from the charter. As for the question I posted, it reminded me that I need to follow up on my records as even after I submitted my records, they were still missing that award, and had me doign a trainging I did not do.

Since I've seen problems like this, and was almost the victim of one, I do consider ti a major YP issue. Remember that YP is not only for the scouts, but also the leaders as well. A very good freind of mine was accused of propostisioning a "scout". Scout was running around after hours, and the female ASM caught him while walking back from a staff meeting. Long story short, the "scout" accuses her of making a pass at him, and she gets booted out of Scouting. Why do I say "scout," well that same individual accused me of giving him permission to run around after hours after I caught him and he ran away. Luckily soem of his companions recanted their story abotu me givign them permission. Another ASM I knew was 'accused" of hitting a scout by a parent at summer camp. What parent didn't know, and luckily others witnessed the event, was that the scout attacked the ASM and he was defnding himself.

bring on the scout staves!(This message has been edited by eagle92)

emb, can you post a link to the 2 page document? Thanks in advance

Oak, problem with that is that the awards now need to be entered into SCOUTNET. yep all the awards have codes for them now. Hmm, i wonder if my council finally added that I got the Scouter's Trainign Award fro way back when?

Scout, last time I worked camp, there were 4 catagories that determined who slept where. Under 18 in one area, 18-20 in another, 21+ in a third, and management/medic/chaplain in their areas. This was for a camp with only 1 female on staff, the medic. Also while YP lists anyone 18+ as an adult, VENTURING YP, which is a separate training from standard YP and required for venturing leaders, states that anyone UNDER 21 is a youth.

2cub A few ideas. #1 assign them resposnibilities that if they don't get doen affect all the adults, i.e. cooking, firewood collecting, cleanup, etc. Use a duty rooster for the adults, list their names and get after them. #2 pick campsites furhter away from home. Lots of folks don't like the drives, and it coudl be a deterrent #3 BACKPACKING. i've found that most adults today don't like it. But the kids who are prepared for it do. Dedicate a month's worht of meeting to the topic, covering everything from what to bring and how to pack, to patrol gear, to shakedowns.make sure the adults understand that they must carry their share of the adult gear: tents, water, food etc. This is a major problem I'm seeing. this past weekend at the lcoal camporee, I saw dads following their sons to events. Funny thing is the event I watched the most, the firebuilding, the ones that didn't have dad around and used wood for cooking could buil;d and lite a fire. Thsoe patrols that did have dads around and cooked exclusinly on stoves couldn't start the fire.

Well I can tell that in some areas the segregation lasted longer than in others. found out when I moved here that the district I served was actually two "districts" until the 1980s, one black, one white. Only time they mixed was council camporee and summer cmap. They had separate district camporees, yet you had guys in the same school goign to differeent district camporees That's a part of the problem recruiting where I'm at. BUT the buggest problem is getting leaders. I remember trying to organize a unit and no parents showed up to help get it started. They wanted their kids involved, but didn't want to help out. Whgen I couldn't get the unit going, I got some angry calls from parents. BUT NO ONE wanted to help.

Emb, Once upon a time, Venturing information DID state that you can have all male, all female, or coed. That was at the '98 NLTC conference that formally introduced venturing, and it was on the info cd-rom that was given out with summaries of all the presentations at the conference. That was a selling point to various churches to have them buy into "Youth Ministries Venture Crews" (that is how it was stated in the discussion).

national won't sell you just letters. So you either A) Have to buy a new flag, or B) Keep it as is. The summer camp is changing their name from CAMP BONNER to Camp Boddie effective 1 January. MANY are not happy with this decision, including the crew affiliated with the summer camp. I believe they will not be getting a new flag, but are instead keeping the old one with CAMP BONNER written on it.

I think part of the problems is taht today's parent had been spoiled as kids, and are now spoiling their kids. They are risk advcerse and it is showing in the Scouting program. I think the entire Mandatory Training movement is a result of this for several reasons 1) parents are so willing to sue it's protection for the leaders and BSA and 2) so many parents are risk adverse that they've never doen the things Scouts do in the past and do not have the experience. I give you a perfect example of the risk aversion. Go on the Scoutstuff.org facebook group, and you will see a mother praising the new MB sash pin b/c a scout could hurt himself using a SAFETY PIN ( caps for emphasis) to pin his MBS sash on.

"I assume Venturing YP standards (4 sleeping areas, females mandatory on staff if there are females enrolled as students, ad infinitum) will apply to this new course. " I think it would need to be 5 or six sleeping areas: Option 1: 11-17 males; 18-20 Males; 14-21 females; 21+ males; 21+ females; OR option B) this one to be used if any females are duel enrolled in troops as ASMs: 11-17 males; 14-17 females; 18-20 males; 18-20 females; 21+ males; 21+ females As for the combined outdoor skills training,I have mixed emotions on it. One one side I see how you need to gradually introduce leaders to the outdoors. Got that from this past weekend and CS family camp. But on the flip side you got leaders like me who been through IOLS, ok it was the old SMF but I did teach IOLS one time, I was bored stiff with BALOO and didn't learn a heck anything new except a new knot. Also there is the case of a friend of mine who is an Eagle, is very active in th outdoors, and is a MBC for Camping, Backpacking etc. He went to BALOO, but has never completed IOLS b/c he has never found the time between workgin with his troop, starting up his crew, and serving on the district committee. Also you do have leaders who go through BALOO move on to scouts and just pick up those T-2-1 skills naturally and don't understand the need additional outdoor training sicne they already got it.

I also don't think they look like uniform pants. Wrong color IMHO. then again the lightin inthe photo could be wrong.

Voyageur While I never did the Shooting Sports Director cert at NCS, I did one of the other high risk areas, COPE Director. I can tell you the course I went through was intense, with very long hours and lots of hands on. Also had to do rescue scenarios. Did I say it was intense. Now grant you I did a COPE course 2 years earlier, and was a climbing and "absailing" instructor in the UK the summer before which did help out a little (there are differences though). But I was the youngest trainee at 22, with the least amount of experience, and I did hold my own with the others in the course. Now the 2 special forces guys in the course with me, well I think they could have taught the course! (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Lucky dog, I still haven't gone to WB yet. Anyway those requirements haven't changed much in many years. And I bet someone overlooked the fact that WB is for ALL leaders now, from TCDLs all the way up to council presidents. Problem is when thsoe requirements were written originally, CSWB was for CS trainers, not your average DLs. So most folks who went had the award already. maybe someone needs to ask national about adding WB21C to the list?