Eagle92

A few things about the new WDLs. 1) Get them to training ASAP. 2) get them an excellent scout to be DC to help out and let the WDLs see first what a knowledgable scout can do 3) Try and arrange a meeting with the troop affiliated with your pack. Doesn't need to be formal, cna be a cookout or anything, that way it lets the SM and WDLs know each other, and lets the SM discuss the BS program and how webelos get thet transition rolling

Horizon, No apologies needed from ya, and no I don't believe that there is such a thing as a young Eagle. You are either an Eagle or you are not. BUT if you wear that badge/medal/knot, you BETTER live up to the ideals behind it! Me personally an Eagle not living up to ideals of Eagle, whether youth or adult, is insulting me, my brother Eagles, and all those leaders who helped me along my trail. But that is anotehr topic for another thread on another day. As for my story, I should have added that my uncle called himself a "Double Eagle" as he earned both the Eagle and Exploring Silver Award in the 50s and there was some pressure placed upon my cousin to get eagle and get it fast: uncle kept telling both of us that once HS hits, your probably won't get Eagle. His words, not mine. And as for my cousin, he did in fact leave Scouting after Eagle. I think part of it was that He got his eagle and it appeared that there was nothign else for him to do. Also he got his Eagle just before "urban Scouting" came out in '73 and that also tarnished scouting for alot of folks, including my two brothers.

HEHEHEHEHEHEHE.... a new HA base within a day's drive.... I LIKE IT!

YES! With the exception of SMCs and emergency situations, things should go through the PL-> SPL-> SM CoC, or some variation of it. And even in the emergency I vaguely remember best, I was the victim so I was confused at the time, it was the scouts who handled the situation and not the leaders present. As for going over people's head, when I was asked questions as both an ASPL and as an ASM,I responded, " what did your PL say?"

Reviving an old post since the topic of Eagle by HS came up, and it led me down memory lane. I guess you could say that my troop recycled the ECOH program as it was one created by the troop leadership when the first Eagle came about, but I consider it a troop tradition and wen with it. it especially had memories for me as my introduction to the troop as a CS came when I attended two cousins' ECOH. THAT was the ceremony I wanted, and got 99.999% of. The ceremony was a mix of seriousness and roast. Ceremonial entrance of the Colors and troop, minus the Eagle candidate, me. Opening consisted of lighting candles of the Scout and Law on the log from the troop's first summer camp, reminding us of the virtues that scouting is meant to instill in us. Then I was escorted by the honor guard and present to the troop and audience. One minor change from the program was that my Rep. presented me with a certificate as soon as I entered the room. Then back on cue, the voice of the Eagle spoke, talking about the trail to Eagle. Then the roasting began. My first SPL with the troop happened to be back from Iraq and gave me the roast: talking about my first summer camp, and my first POR as PL under him. It was a great roast, but then it came time to get serious again, and my troop had a part where present Eagles could "challenge" the Eagle candidate. My old SPL was the first one Eagle, and as soon as stood up and "challenged" me, everyone laughs because although he roasted me, he also mentioned the stuff he had seen me do and have heard I've done. Once the challenges were completed, I was given my Eagle Charge by my old SPL and my mother was escorted up by the honor guard. She pined the Eagle and presented me with the certificate. And I gave her the mother's pin. After she was escorted back, I was then presented several other certificates, the most memorable coming from the Marine Corps League, as my religious BOR chairman was the one presenting me with it and at the time I was planning to join the USMC, my old SPL, representing the USN, presented a Navy certificate, and the head of the CCS for the council, who also headed up the CSDC I worked at years before, presented me with the Catholici Committee on Scouting's certificate. I then gave a thank you speech and presented gifts to those who had made an impact on me. Only three things differed between my cousins' cermony and mine 1) the location as we changed COs, 2) the rep had to leave early so presneted a congressional certificate prior to me receiving the Eagle badge, and 3) there was no cool lightening storm serving as a backdrop like at my cousins' ECOH Every troop and Eagle is different. Some troops do have traditions like my old one that, for whatever reason, the Eagles don't want to break. Yes I and other eagles were given the option to do it our own way. Then there are troops that Eagles have complete control over what they want done. Neither one is bad, but when a troop TELLS the Eagle what will be done, there is a problem IMHO. Seen that happen with 1 troop.

I love the pig analogy, especially coming from the town with the best NC BBQ . Seriously though that is a very good analogy. And yes i've dealt with parents like that, i.e want Eagle before HS, can't get license until Eagle, etc, etc. For me I tell the story of 2 Eagles I know. The first Eagle rushed and rushed and rushed, getting his Eagle in 8th grade and then promptly leaving Scouting. He had some good memories, but nothing really outstanding in his Scouting career. The other Eagle also felt pushed to get Eagle ASAP like his cousin the eagle above and was Life at 13. But something happened along the trail, he took some different, more challenging trails to Eagle. He went through Brownsea 22, the predecessor to today's NYLT. He got inducted into the Order of the Arrow, he went to Jambo, and did a 50 canoeing expedition up in Canada. He was having so much fun, that he slowed down on working some of the important, yet dull, paperwork MBs like Safety and the dreaded Personal Management. But eventually he completed his trail at the age of 18, and doesn't regret the time spent along the trail one bit. That second Eagle continued on as a ASM and had alot more adventures as he helped those continuing on the trail: joined Sea Scouts, became super active in the OA (becoming a Vigil Honor memember along the way), spent 3 months at British Scout camps as part of the European Camp Staff Program, going to a world scout jambo, etc. So my advice would be to let the Scouts go at their own pace and have fun. Only real advancement advice I have is 1) go to summer camp ASAP and master those T-2-1 skills, 2) as soon as you become Life, get the project approved and completed ASAP so that the really hard part of Eagle is completed and you can have some fun with that monkey off your back, and 3)try, key word is TRY, to get Eagle before you hit 18 so you can wear that eagle patch some (but you can wear it until 21 in Venturing ), but no matter what, HAVE FUN! PS My cousin finally got back involved in Scouting when his son became a TC a few years back as a TCDL. Son is now a scout with dad as an ASM. Both are taking the time to have some fun. Both became Arrowmen in my old lodge, Chilanktakoba 397, this past May and are really having fun.

I would not only inform the SM, but also the SPL as the YOUTH is in charge of the troop. Better still would be to have a Webelos Den Chief who has worked with the "challenging" scout, and give his own recommendatiosn to teh SPL and SM.

Courtesy says that the dad at least stand. When I visited the UK, I stood when "God Sacve the Queen" was sung out of courtesy to my hosts.

Welcome to the forums. out of curiosity, what religious denomination is the family. I ask b/c I read on this site somewhere that a few religious denominations do have some issues with the Pledge. That may be the case.

Emb, Hear ya lound and clear. I knew leaders wore the trained strip, but believed that Venturers actually wore a green and white VLSC strip, and not a trained strip. Have they done away with the VLSC strip. I actually liked the color combo of the VLSC strip, and was hoping national would come outwith a trained strip in those colors. Saw an unoffical one, and it loooks spiff.

EMB, Actually the literature I'm looking at does NOT show or state that trained patch is even worn with the venturing uniform, let alone which trained patch. http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Venturing_Checklist.pdf http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Venturing.pdf Thankfully ebay still has a bunchof the old ones, and I got a small stash of the old trained emblems for my Venturing uniforms. Would be nice if National made one in Green and White similar to the VLSC ones, hint hint .

A few bits of advice from another former pro. 1) Don't present the problem as one of advancement, rather presnet it as more of a financial/marketing problem. Sad to say but most of the pros I've known and/or worked with only cared abotu the financial side of things. 1A) By creatign a better program more units will start to attend the local camp instead of going OOC, which would increase revenue. 1B) By hiring and TRAINING a quality staff, you will i)save money not having to rusgh out and replace staff last minute and ii)save money long term by not having to conduct recruiting drives every year for staff, training them, etc. and iii)will imporve customer relations, thus makign people want to come back. 2) Having a quality staff WILL compensate for lack of facilities. TRUST ME ON THAT! So it's cheaper to spedn the money on staff than camp imporvments in the immediate time period.

EG, Actually according to the official literature that came out prior to the Centennial Uniforms (CU) coming out, you ARE allowed to mix and match ODL and CU items. What national did NOT specify was did that mean only major items, i.e. pants and shirts can be mixed, or minor items like insignia can be mixed or match, ie. tan and green numbers on the ODL shirts, red loops on the CU shirt, etc. So the UP was incorrect. Scoutfish, In case I haven't already wlecomed you to the forums, welcome. In referecne to your scout shop, is it a national supply shop, or a local distributorship, ie council owned shop or a store selling Scout merchandise in addition to other wares? There IS a big difference as national scout shops are owned by Supply Division and have the most up to date information AND must honor the lifetime guarentee of uniform items. Distributorships are local businesses, like JC Penny and your local council office, that agree to sell BSA merchandise. They set their own policies and prices, do not have to honor the lifetime guarentee as THEY are charged for returns to national, AND do not necessarily get the most up to date information. Give you a great example of how out of the loop local distributorships can be. I found out about a new uniform and new handbooks BEFORE the local council did. I found out about the mid-year price increases in the uniform before the local council and a local store did. The local council still has July 2008 literature posted on the uniform b/c they have not recieved an updated poster yet. So a local distributorship may not have the most up to date information. Caveat emptor. Now in reference to the uniform literature coming out with the CU, that was a major, stress MAJOR screw up with national as a new Insignia Guide (IG), uniform inspection sheets (UIS), etc did not, stress NOT, come out with the intro of the CU. Only thing folks had to go by was a brochure in a pdf file. To make matters worse, national kept changing information around between the intro of the CUs in August 2008 and the IG in May of 2009. I've posted some of this info above. It was so bad that even nationally owned scout shop employees didn't know what was going on as they were even out of the loop. An example of this would be calling my old scout shop to find out the most correct information, esp. Since I heard/read about the uniform number issue, I called them up for clarification and was told by an employee that he didn't know what was going on, the IG was chock full of errors despite being published 8 months late, and to the best of his knowledge based upon the literature he had on hand (the pdf brochure), CS leaders in the CUs wore tan and green numbers and trained strip as national completely did away with tan and red strips. And as we all know now this was incorrect. My advice is that if you haven't sewed on the numbers yet, return them ASAP and get the red and whites as that is what all the current lit says found here http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Male_Leader_Checklsit.pdf If you have sewed them on already and the UPs are after ya, tellthem yuou have a vintage August 2008 cub scout leader uniform, I'll be happy to PM ya with the pdf file of the time PS. even national screws up their info, that link I provided says a leader needs a MB sash

troop leader trainging is good. One thing that worked in my old troop wa that the game time was always the secodn to last thing we did. Work had to be done befoer game time, and if anyone misbehaved, the PLs and SPL reminded us that we were eating uip our game time.

Snow White, Welcome to the forums. your local scout distributorship is incorrect. CS and their leaders, including Webelos, do wear the red and white numbers. I posted links to the national website with the correct info.

YEP everything is touching on a UNIT scout and scouter in an ODL as well as Venturer and leader in their uniform. The CSP is pos. 1, vet bar is pos. 2A unit # is pos. 2, POR is pos. 3, and trained strip is pos. 4 Council and national level folks don't have the POR touching the CSP, the POR remains in the pos. 3 location EXCEPT for commisssioners wearing their arrowhead on the short sleeve shirt, then everything moves up so that the arrowehead can eb worn.

I don't think the new uniform shorts were meant to be swim trunks, see the official BSA Swim trunks here http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=APPAREL&c3=AOTHER&c4=&lv=3&item=644BSST BUT if they new shorts WERE meant for swimming purposes as well as uniform purposes, my question is this: can you wear the BSA Lifeguard, Mile Swim, Snorkling, etc aqautic awards on them?

For me, if the BSA says you must have a minimum of X time since as Y rank in order to get Z rank, then that is the minimum requirement and must be met. If it is not met, thent he award cannot be earned. If the BSA didn't feel that time requirements were necessary, they could always do away with tem as they did with the T-2-1 time requirements in 1989 or so. As for your assesment, that has also been my expereuicne as well.

in my old troop, duty rosters were used, posted, and the PL wasn't listed. He was to supervise and chip in as needed. Back to my BA22 Days, PLs were not on duty rosters on their day to be PL; they were to supervise, chip in as needed, or attend the PLC. When I staffed JLT, Pls were still not on duty rosters on the day they were PL, and again they supervised and chipped in as needed. At BA22, the PLs in my patrol, the Cocky Curlews, DID have to chip in as we were the youngest and least organized patrol. We didn't work together as a team until day 5, and only due to necessity. At JLT, depending upon the patrol, the PLs either didn't have to chip in at all, the older scout patrol, chip in occassionally, the two middle of the road patrols, or chipped in all the time, ouor "youngster" patrol.

IS, Welcome to the forums. Yep you will be seeing alot of that you saw thsi weekend since national screwed up royally on this matter. But as stated elsewhere, once official uniform, always official uniform, and the literature did at one time say A) you can mix and match uniform items from the ODL uniform with the Centennial uniform and vice-versa and B) national did produce literature with CS leaders wearing the tan and green insignia, especially sicne for approx. 10 months there were NO red and tan trained strips to be found.

In reference to the article, I think the union rep needs a common sense check. As for unions overall, I have mixed emotions as my grandparents were union members when they were working, and I know they benefitted. BUT I also see the problems they have caused, even with pro-union companies. Best example would be Higgins Industries. Great company to work for, one grandfather worked for them and they helepd him out tremendously during a very difficult time, and the owner WANTED a union to reperesent his workers durign WWII. However when a disagreement wth the AFL over the WORKERS vote to terminate the AFL union in favor of the CIO union (this was before the AFL-CIO merged)resulted in a lawsuit against the company, Higgins decided to abandon his plans for the post WWII economy, close the company entirely, and laid off hundreds of workers b/c it was cheaper for him to close down than go to arbitration.

Keep on bragging and BRAVO ZULU to you and your scouts.

Ok I've commented on the breaches of the law. yes it is getting minor attention on this thread, but that is a major concern for me. I wuld like to hear more if possible. Other concerns. 1) trying to get the paperwork signed a few days early. 6 months is 6 months. Sorry that is an issue for me as well, and he needs to wait the full 6 months. 2) DC as a POR. Yes that is an acceptable POR, BUT did the Life do work over the past 6 months? Immediate answer is NO b/c he is a few days short of 6 months since Life BOR. A more probing question would be Was the pack active over the summer and did the DC do stuff with them over the summer? While not knowing what level the CSs are has me dumbfounded, he is doing his job according to the DL, so that is moot. BUT the three months over the summer has me concerned. If they didn't do anyhting, then he wasn't as DC for the full 6 months. OR if he didn't attend activities, then he was not doing his job. Since outsiders are gettign involved, I think there ismore to the story that needs to addressed.

I am of the opinion that if yuo have a large size necker, designed by the scouts, that has a history behind it, the scouts will accept it and wear it. My troop had such and there was NO question of gettign rid of it.

What really concerns me is the "several breaches of the law." How is that being a good citizen, Cit Com & Cit Nat, as well as following the Scout Law; Trustworthy,Loyal, Courteous,& Obedient.