Eagle92

While it says nothing about insurance, the new healthform that is mandatory effective 1 January 2010 found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34605_Letter.pdf states the following Parts A and C are to be completed annually by all BSA unit members. Both parts are required for all events that do not exceed 72 consecutive hours, where the level of activity is similar to that normally expended at home or at school, such as day camp, day hikes, swimming parties, or an overnight camp, and where medical care is readily available. Medical information required includes a current health history and list of medications. Part C also includes the parental informed consent and hold harmless/release agreement (with an area for notarization if required by your state) as well as a talent release statement. Adult unit leaders should review participants health histories and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of the youth members in their unit. This form is to be filled out by participants and parents or guardians and kept on file for easy reference. What I just noticed is the phrase Both parts are required for all events that do not exceed 72 consecutive hours, where the level of activity is similar to that normally expended at home or at school... That ALL EVENTS could be interpreted to also mean Pack Meetings, even though the examples given are activities. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Frank, Welcome to the OA! While I wish you wouldn't have seen the Brotherhood Ceremony until your time, I understand the perogative and don't have a problem with it. In my old council, we had a bunch of members on the CCS in the OA, with several being Vigils.

Oak, I actually read the E's post after I sent them PM, I reread my post, and ralized it sounded very unscoutlike, kinda sarcastic, which again wasn't the intent. Just wanted that cleared up.

OGE, Prior to Aug. 1998, Venture patrols were called Venture Crews. When split Venturing from Exploring they decided to call the traditional side Venturing b/c that is the term used in a few other Scout Associations. I don't know why they decided to call Venturing units crews, but I can tell you the folks in my PDL-1 class, when informed of the then upcoming changed, did comment on the terminology being used and how it will cause some confusion. Which it has. To make matter more interesting, maroon was the color associated with Venture Crews/Patrols. I believe the original color scheme for Venturing was suppose to be maroon and gold, not the green and gold now in use, but soemone decided to make the switch to green and gold. I have software from national with the maroon and gold logo, and notice how the old Venturing polos were maroon based.

Ea, Hopefully you got my PM on the post. I do want to apologize not only to E but to everyone else. My post was a serious one, but the tone it takes was not what it was intended to be. In rereading it last nite, I noticed that it did sound unscoutlike, and I PMed E on it. Just to clarify, in NC, October and March are considered prime camping months as it is not too cold, not to hot and no mosquitos (for the most part). If there was a national ban like the one E's council has, then that would cause problems for us in NC. Also in reference to indoor "camping," I use to work at the USS KIDD DD661 that had an overniter program for youth groups (and a darn good one for the $15/nite price if you ask me ) And we would get alot of CS packs camping out on the ship in the winter months. This was a great opportunity for packs to do some overnite stuff, and keep warm for those with the "El Cheapo Mucho Stuff" Again tyhe post was not suppose to be unscoutlike, rather it was suppose to be a serious question on what limits are put on CS in the OCt. to Apr. time frame.

Basement, SSSHHHHHH, don't tell anyone, but most OA ceremony teams still wear sheath knives with their regalia, at least in the 5 lodges I was in, and the lodges i saw at NOAC back int he day.

"If a scout is coming directly from a school meeting to the Troop meeting, we don't expect him to be in uniform. We're just glad he came and glad to see him. " Why can't he bring his uniform on a hanger, come to the meeting, and change in the bathroom? The bandsmen, baseball players, footballers, cheerleader, etc in my troop always brought their uni on a hanger and changed into it, even if late (which they would tell their PL or the ASPL as the case may be in advance). Heck I did the sawitcharoo for a good freind of mine's ECOH that happened to be the same nite as my HS ring ceremony and Dacne. Went to the ceremony with my date, brought her to the ECOH with uni on a hanger that I changed into, then switch back into coat and tie for the ring Dance

Not trying to correct anyone. Just trying to give the definition of the uniforms as national has or had in the case of the Activity Uniform, defined them. As to the vote counting, put me down as "it depends" Class B will always be scout t-shirt, shorts or pants, socks, belt, and hat. BUT as i have stated elsewhere there is a time and a place for uniforms of any sort, whether Class A ( full uni) Class B (described above) or Class C (scout t-shirt only). Meetings in the summer, yep Class B. Camporees, where they usually specify the wearing of Class B's in the Leaders' Guides, yep Class B. Going to and from Summer camp class, use your judgment (in my troop usually the younger scouts wear Class C, older scouts wear Class B). DInner and church you better be in Class A's. And yes we taught our guys the "Brownsea Washing Machine" method of cleaning cloths BUT OA Ordeals or activities you will be getting down and dirty, Where what you want, and I'm usually in cammies. I admit I'm an old fogey when it comes to uniforming. I came from a fully uniformed troop, have been fully uniformed in my district duties the past few years, and am promoting a fully uniformed den. And I am upset with the current quality of CS uniforms. Oldest son bought his CS Switchbacks, yes he used his own money to buy them,and after wearing them 2 times, the crotch came apart. Local distributorships won't handle the exchange so now I have to do some driving to get them exchanged. Hopefully I can just exchange the shorts portion as I do have them hemmed..

JiKC, Tents, we don't need no stinkign tents, LOL. I hear ya. In my chapter, usually the new members will sleep in the tents Satuday nite, while current Arrowmen in under a campsite shelter the entire weekend.

eagledad, Actually you can still have youth led in a coed group, Venturing has shown that. The only changes I honestly see is the 1) adoption of VENTURING YPT compared to the standard YPT now and use and 2) getting over peaople's fears. Trust me I am one of the biggest old fogeys for traditional scouting, and I do have concerns for some things that national has put out recently, i.e. Soccer and Scouting, the testing of an "altetnate uniform" made by UA in the MD council, etc, and do NOT want a repeat of the 1970s. But I do not have the concern of losing traditional scouting if we go coed as long as A) the option to remain single gender remains and B) the parents of ALL new scouts understand the aims and methods of scouting and don't try to negate youth led b/c "their little girl can't do it." And to be honest I hear alot of that already from Boy Scout parents.

Actually the correct name for the "Class A" is Field Uniform as opposed to Dress Uniform worn by pros and the council level folks at formal. events. As stated previously from approx 1989 to approx 1998, sorry can't remember the exact dates but it was the 1990s, national did create an Activity uniform that was recommended for wear camping, biking, etc. All the Activity Uniform consisted of was a color specific polo shirt, Red with FDL for Scouts, Tan with FDL and Varsity written on it for varsity Scouts, and maroon with FDL and Venture, for those Scouts in a troop's "Venture Crew" ( this was before the Exploring/Venturing split in 1998 and troops had Venture Crews and scouts in them were sometimes called Venture Scouts, the reason why we still have confusion in Venturing terminology to this day IMHO). Yes I can be a PITA at times, trying to preserve some Scouting history before people forget, and I think those Activity uniforms of the 1990s are easily forgetable.

A few ideas to make sure that everyone has a t-shirt. 1) my old troop growing up issued a T-shirt every Christmas for the upcoming year. Same logo, but different colors every year, and the year was printed under the logo. Those joinin the troop would have to "order" them. For the most part everyone wore the most current t-shirt at meetings, but at camp, so would see everythign from the most current to a t-shirt that 16 years old. 2) My current pack has decided to issue a shirt to everyone when they pay the Pack dues as they are incorporating it into the price.

Mariqco, Welcome to the forums. I do have a question for ya, why is your son not sharing a tent with his patrol member? I ask b/c in my experience youth ALWAYS stay with their patrols, even if mom or dad is a leader or on the trip. Adults are in their area, youth in another. On second thought, I need to stress Troop and Crew camping. OA events are a different matter and I have seen father and sons in the same tent.

Oak, My old troop had Class B as scout t-shirt, belt, shorts/pants, socks, and hat, and it was worn basically May to Oct. Only time the Class A's came out was travellign to and from trips, COHs, and Sumemrcamp. What you described would be Class C, and would be seen after arrival on camping trips and during the days at summercamp. Thinking about it, all of the troops I ever been affiliated with had the same descriptions for uniforms. And now Class A, B, etc ARE acceptable terms and used my National. Look at this website http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&C3=TROUSERS&C4=&LV=3&item=689SHORTS&prodid=689SHORTS^8^01RTL& and this sentence Our Centennial Supplex Uniform Short is designed to offer a Land to Water option that is functional and convenient. Stuck at the Aquatics Center before needing to report to the Mess Hall in full Class A? This new short is the answer! Also I wouldn't use the term Activity Uniform as that term historically meant the Polo Shirt and khaki shorts that national came out with inthe 1990s.

Glad i'm not in your council E. October is when we have the CS family camps, and April is scheduled for our biggest event. Also can those CS packs do Indoor "camping" i.e USS KIDD, USS ALABAMA, overniters at the museum, etc.

The pack I am with has a philosophy that as soon as the Web II gets AOL, they present the AOL and do the Crossover. They want the boys to be Scouts ASAP. So yes we do have dens crossing over, but we have had some indiviudals too.

Yep Winter camping is prohibited, but as has been shown there's no definition for winter camping. For somwone down in FL 40 degrees may be considered too cold,but up North in Maine or Alaska, 40 is a nice Spring Day. I think the key here is common sense. If your families don't have the gear to do the camping , don't do it.

Stuffed animal dolls reminded me of a Venturing crew's mascot, Izzy Venture. Even has a FB page.

Never heard that one either. And i am BALOO Trained, and am suppose to be teaching a course in next year.

Can't comment too much as there are not a lot of details given. But back in the day PLs were the "judge and jury" for most problems and they handled it, kinda like Captain's Mast in the Navy. If it was more serious, the SPL would get involved. That happened 1 time, and the biggest reason for it was that the PL wes involved in the prank. Or should I say the former PL was involved. Again SPL was "judge and Jury" SM and ASMs never seemed to get unless it was A) a SMC moment or B) so serious that they needed to get involved. Don't remember any B moments, and usually the SMC came after the PL or SPL had their moment. Now I do know of one scout being sent home from jambo, but that has been told elsewhere.

No mascot for the troop, just a totem: a keystone with a tent and two feet hanging out of it. That patch was on our neckers, and was on our t-shirt shirts. As for camps, to my knowldge the reservation and one camp in my council do have mascots, both are dogs owned by the rangers. And yes the camp staff/OA lodge is very protective of them.

A few comments, 1) I've seen how it's worked with other countries and I would use then as potential models. It can work. 2) Keep the option of letting the COs decide to go coed, keep it all male, or go all female. 3) I think GSUSA will have a conniption as I know that many of our Venturers come from their ranks already b/c they are dissatisfied with the program. 4)In referecne to YP, definately have to go with the VYPT model alrady in place. 5) As for showing off scouts, etc, from my expereicne it will happen intitally, but over time it the "newness" for lack of a better term wears off. When i was in the UK i asked about this and the same answer from all Scouts was the same, they are just part of the troop. 6) From my experience, the "ladies taking over" can be a factor. I saw this first hand with my Sea Scout ship many years ago, and was one fo the reasons why I left. However if the girls, and more importnatly their parents, can buy into the BSA model, it can be successfull. I've seen that with Venturing crews starting up. 7) Where am I hearing these rumors of a possibility that BSA may go co-ed. there are several. A) from folks here who came back from NOAC B) from other folks I knwo personally who went to NOAC C) professionals i've come into contact with. To be honest, I don't think going coed will be as abig a deal to the youth as it will to the adults. Then again I could be wrong.

While it wouldn't be a "gray area" if you joined a troop in one state with your sons in another troop in another, I personally wouldn't do it. Reason being is that I would hate to be involved in a unit, only to find out that my sons were not interested in that unit, but were interested in another. I know two people that the situation above has happened to, and my troop lost two very good leaders.

Brklyn, No probs here, just wanted to emphasise I not trying to be a PITA. As for Beavah, I don't know aboyut them in upper NYS, but I do know they got some big otters up there, used a NYS otter pelt fro my dragger, but that's a different story .

Brklyn, Please don't take this the wrong way, not trying to be a pain in the buttocks, but as I mentioned this topic came up recently at one of the RTs, and I beleive it was b/c of the unit I mentioned. Even using a local council's CSP design and/or their name in the design can be seen as copyright infringement or whatever the problem was. The troop in question got into trouble for creating a "all-in-one" patch that used the old CSP design, listed the council's name, listed the lcoation of the troop, and the unit number. Now the council did not have a problem with another troop making one piece red and white with City and State info, instead of the CSP. Where's Beavah when we need him on these legal issues, LOL.