Eagle92

Oh and I can't beleive I left this one out, Interpatrol cooking competitions. Patrols plan for the patrol members plus 2, and the older scouts or adults "judge" the meals based upon the sampling. Depending upon the number of judges and patrols, you may not need to feed the judges. Great way for a Leadership Corps to get out of cooking and cleaning up, especially when they are preparing for events

One thing that may help in the food department is some camping cook books. They add variety to the meals, and usually have the right size protions for growing, hungry, Scouts. And I say camping cook books because they usually have the poritons right. One thing I was taught is that whatever portion size the directions call for in a normal cookbook or recipe, you usually need to double on campouts, i.e. if the recipe says it's good for 8, then it's only good for 4 Scouts. Scouts are active, are burning more calores than someone sitting behind a desk, and need the extra food. A few things I have seen include the following 1) Troop and Council cookbooks. Yep some troops come up with their own cookbooks, and they are usually designed for camping. My council growing up also had it's own cookbook for the BA 22 course that included all the recipes for our meals that week, and then some. If the wife hasn't appropriated it to her cook book collection, then It's with my stuff in the closet. Unfortunately I have not cooked in a long time as I'm either a guest of a unit, or the Pack has designated cooks. 2)Troop menues. When cost is a factor, I've seen some troops have a "menu competition" to create the best menu for the trip. Essentially every patrol submits their proposals for the trip tothe PLC. PLC then votes on the best meals, and the PLC makes the menu. Then the service patrol does the shopping for the troop, usually at the local Sam's Club. Again this is when cost is a factor as buying in bulk is cheaper, BUT it does take a little away from the patrol method. Hope this helps.

Jersey, Keep it up and don't let them get you down. A few ideas to help the situation. 1) Ask those who are complaining if theyhave been through any Boy Scout Leader Training, i.e. Fast Start, SM Specific, Troop Committee training, etc. Advise them that your format is what BSA promotes in it's literature, and that they can take a good bit of it online if they are interested in seeing what a SM's job truly entails. 2)Ask those parents if they ever made mistakes that they learned from growing up. Then ask those with previosu BS expereince what mistakes they made with their patrol and how did they handle it. Also ask if they repeated it again? 3) Remind the parents that this is the opportunities for the young men to do things for themselves, make mistakes, and leanr from both success and failure. USe the old Edison quote about what to use as filament in a lightbulb. In reference to the patrol that left the stove behind, ask the committe dothey think it will happen again or did the patrol, and the other patrols

Second the scout staves.

Find out if there are any Scouting museums or uniform collectors in the area, they may, stress may, be able to help out by providing samples of older uniforms. Since the ODLs were a radical departure from previous uniforms, so your best bet would be to get odler uniforms. As for activities, look at someof the older BSA handbooks and other literature. Also PM KUDU as he has a bunch of stuff.

When I was active with a troop, I would see the T-2, 2-1, or even a T-2-1 BOR(s)usually with new scouts who joined the troop in Feb-Mar. time frame and went to summer camp. Me personally I like the time periods between T-2-1 as they allowed the scout to mature, or as a good frined of mine woudl say "season a bit." Also I do not like how all the basic scout skills are split up amongst the T-2-1 ranks, and that is one reason why scouts are working on multiple ranks simultaneously. I am one of the few on this forum who actually liked the skill awards ont he 1970s and 80s. It allowed a scout to focus all the attention the basic skills at one time. Finally I think FA MB need to once again be mandatory for First Class. Scouts are known for their FA knowledge, and I've been in several situations as a youth that I had to do FA when adults were around. They knew I was a scout, and thought/knew I had the KSAs to deal with the situation ( I say thought b/c one incident was as a brand new Tenderfoot Scout, luckily READYMAN AB covered a good bit of the situation)

Every council is different and I've seen the awards given out at RTs and district banquets. The council needs to give you at least a certificate so you can go to a scout shop or council distributor and get extra knots if you have multiple uniforms. Scout shops usually have a decent supply of them.

Agree, especially since they no longer produce an Activity Uniform, just a Field Uniform and Dress Uniform.

Speaking of devices i got 3 questions: 1) What device does a CM wear: CS or Webelos since both devices cover parts of the CS program? 2)Does someone who is a Sea Scout Skipper wear the Venturing Seavice or the Sea Scout Device? 3) Can someone who earned it as a Venturing Adviser earn it a second time as a Sea Scout Skipper, since Sea Scouts falls under Venturing, and Vice versa?

But most folks refer to what you describe as Class A.

Having worked in Supply back in the day, there were only 3 types of uniforms issued by National that I know of, and I'm capping them for emphaisis. The FIELD UNIFORM when I worked Supply was the ODL and it came in 3 varieties: poly-cotton blend, 100% cotten, and a poly-wool blend. No matter what variety you wore, it was considered a Field Uniform. Today the Field Uniform is the new Centennial Uniform, and it is now offered in 3 varieties: 100% supplex, poly-cotton and now the wool blend. This uniform is referred to by most people as the "Class A," and the term is starting to catch on with national. The next uniform is the DRESS UNIFORM, and it is still current today. That is the blue blazer, gray trousers, white shirt, universal emblem and the professional tie (thankfully it's no longer the "barber shop" tie.) While you see mostly professionals in it, it can be worn anyone, including Cubs, Scouts, and Venturers. Medals and OA sash are authorized for wear with it too, but let's not discusss the OA sash here, as that is another topic." The third uniform that national came out with was the ACTIVITY UNIFORM that consisted of khaki shorts, white socks, and a polo shirt based upon what type of Scout you were: Boy Scouts wore red polos, Varsity Scouts wore khaki polos, and those Boy Scouts in a troop's Venture Crew wore maroon shirts (this was prior to VENTURING). This uniform was released approx. 1989- 1999, was not very popular and was discontinued. Personally I wouldn't call the ODLs a "Class B" as most folks consider a "class B" some type of Scout t-shirt combo, either with uniform socks, belt and short/pants ( usually those troops with a uniform culture) or jeans (for those without)

Ok this is interesting. Looking up "Venturing Adavcnement" and you get only 1 true hit and that is for the Insiginia Guide. Allother hits are CS, BS and Sea Scout advancment. Now type in "Venturing Awards" and you get a bunch of stuff, and from this site http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/venturing/awards.aspx they call Venturing related materials "acheivments"

And let's not forget the Houmas "Istrouma" or red stick, which is today's city of Baton Rouge.

Someone at national screwed up as #1 they left out Sea Scouts ( although an argument can be made that they are included under Venturing) and #2 the phrase "Effectively use the advancement method" doesn't apply to approx 97% of venturing units as their is NO advancement in Venturing, save the 3% involved in Sea Scouts. So what to do, I'ld have my CC put a big red NA for Not Applicable since it isn't.

Jet, In the troops I've been affiliated with, there are 4 meetings in a month, plus the campout and/or hike. That doesn't inlcude service projects like S4F or popcorn sales where uniforms are also worn. Nor does it include OA activities. Then you also have to add in summer camp. You do get your moneys worth with new pants, and if you get second hand you really get's your monies worth. And that's if the troop doesn't go to a Class B as I described it above.

HEHEHE 2 man cross saw, I think the lodge has some pics of me and the chapter using that bad boy at the last Ordeal.

Actually has he taken the new chainsaw class that national has come out with and will require 1 Jan for adults to use on scout property, or so I'm told.

Concur with others, want to see it in writing from NATIONAL, not council, as that sounds very appeallable to me. As for doing 2 or three ranks in a nite. Been there, done that. Except that since this was so new, prior to this you had time requirements between each rank, instead of having 1 BOR for all three ranks, we did three separate boards, at 3 different times in the same nite. Thinking about it, that was the last BOR id did as a youth, as prior to that time YOUTH were on the T-2-1 BORS in my troop.

Res, only problem with the calcualtions si the 3-4 years part. Sicne the intro of the elastic in the shorts and pants, you can go up 1 to 2 sizes and have room to grow into them. Also if a scout hems them high, i.e doesn't trim them but folds and hems, they can last closer to 6 years.

SctDad, talk to Nelson and/or Reggie at Bonner as I've been told camp does have a few trees that they grow specifically for totem poles cor conclave. They may have an one you can have. Cypress is also rot resistant, and I believe you can find in the area.

Oak, Trust me, t-shirts don't get the same response with the public. 95% of the t-shirts I own are Scouting related, and whether I wear them as a Class B ( uniform socks, pants/shorts, belt and hat) or not, whether I'm with several folks with the same shirt (usually driving to or from a service project) or not., I have not received the same attention. Also I was involved in the JROTC drill teamin HS. When we went to functions in our Dress Blue Bravos, get got attentions and comments just like in the scout uniform. However when we wore civies for long trips, it was as if we were just another group of folks taking over the McDonalds. Trust me t-shirt are nice, and every unit I've been in save one (new unit and I was only in it for a year) has had them, but you don't get the same sens eof ID and compliments as if you were in a complete uniform.

Brent, Like the idea of the JLC, or as we called it back in the day the Leadership Corps, and giving them some perks to reward them for the extra responsibility. Why does it seem that we keep returning to things that have already been done in the past?

SMT, I actually know of 5 units that have committee members in a complete uniform. My old troop, 3 troops in my area and 1 crew. Grant you with 2 of the units, the crew and one of the troops, have the same committee running both units, so you may see some Venturing uniforms on the BOR, it's still a class A uniform.

Oak A few comments. to Set the record straight, yes I am pro uniform, but I also believe their is a time and a place for them. I believe the full uniform is proper for all meetings, BORs COHs, travel to and from camp, church and/or scout's own, dinnertime, and campfires. I believe the uniform should be put away for physical labor, i.e. conservation vation projects and the like, most, stressing most, in-camp activities (see above) and campwide games ( especially Civil War, capture the flag, etc So yes there are times when you will see me not in a complete uniform,or any uniform fo rthat matter. As to the benefits of wearing a uniform, going to and coming home from trips, whenever we stopped, people always complimented us. Most of the McDonald's didn't have problems with us as we behaved better than some of the other youth groups I participated in b/c the uniform set us apart, and on two occasions when I had major car problems while wearing the scout uniform, I had people help me out and a tow company take care of me free of charge. For whatever reason folks had higher expectations of us when we wear the Scout uniform than when we don't and are willing to help us out when in need. Also it provided ready ID at Scouting functions. In the area I grew up in, 100% uniformed troops were the norm, and the only way to tell us froma distance was the troop necker as it was custom made, a very specific color of yellowish gold, and the patch was an irregular patch with a simple but very distinguishable design. Another benefit is that your troop will have a sense of pride in their patrols and troop.They will not want to let their patrol or troop down, and that uniform is a very visible reminder of that. Also I have seen folks in uniform get asked to do things because of it. One example ws me getting selected for a Superbowl promo photograph b/c I was the only one in a complete Exploring uniform at the event. My oldest got selected at a council event to do the flag ceremony b/c he was one of only 3 CS in a complete uniform of socks, shorts, belt, shirt necker and hat. Also a friend of mine's unit got into BOYS LIFE because they were the only unit at the national Scouting museum in full uniform. As for rules on uniforming, as I stated there is a time and a place for the full complete uniform. While some folks don't like to compare sports to scouting, there are some applicable similarities, and the uniform is one. Growing up, it wasn't the SM or the ASMs enforcing the uniforming rules, it was the PLs, Leadership Corps, and the SPL enforcing the troops rules, and yes we did send folks home to get dressed properly in order to come camping or to a COH on occasion. For mtgs, points were deducted from the weekly uniform inspection that counted towards patrol of the Year. And usually it was the uniform inspections that made the difference in that competition. But besides the rules, it's identity. When people see a completely uniformed Scout, they know it's a Scout and and not someone from AWANA, Royal Rangers, or any of the other organizations around. While I do wish some of national's rules would go away, i.e the laser tag one, one of the points of the Scout law is to be Obedient, and we must instill that in our charges. Let's face it WE are and example to our Scouts. In refernce to quality of program and uniforming, I will grant you that yes there are some 100% uniformed troops out there that are adult led. AND THAT IS A PROBLEM (caps for emphasis) But in my 27 years as a scout and leader ( has it been that long?) the units that either A) are 100% uniform or B) striving to be 100% uniformed are generally better than the units that aren't. And I say striving b/c I do know some Scouts have financial problems, heck I was one of them I didn't buy a pair of official pants until I was 14, and then they were used. BUT I did have official shorts, and a pair of green surplus that passed muster. Yes uniform culture does help to perpetuate itself, and if you don't have it it can be challenging to start it. BUT IT IS DOABLE ( again caps for emphasis) My pack doesn't have the uniform culture as it was only formed about 3 years ago. But I am workign on it. How, #1 by setting the example. #2 Talking to the Cubs about how THEY need to save their money and buy their own uniforms instea dof havign their parents buy it for them. YOU should see the pride my son has in the uniform HE bought. Yep he bought his own socks, shorts, switchbacks, and shirt ( all save the switchbacks were used) As for the necker, slide, and hat, I gave him the necker as a gift for becoming a Tiger, and invested him into Scouting, and the slide and hat are my old ones that my mom was able to save from Katrina, and he does take care of them. You should see the pride my Tigers have when they show up with another uniform item on, or int he case of a few birthday boys, their complete uniforms. THE COMPLETE UNIFORM DOES MEAN SOMETHING ( again for emphasis). and #3 asking them to set a goal for having a complete uniform. For my tigers, I told them and their partners tricks to make the uniforms last 3-4 years, and asked if a compelte uniform by May was unreasonable. I aslo stressed that they need to be responsible. For me seeing a Star, Life, or Eagle in blue jeans does upset me as it says something about commitment and responsibility to me. Yes it took me 3.5 years for get official pants, but I did wear the official shorts and wore green pants of a similar nature. I attempted to be uniform with the rest of my patrol and troop. I tried to be the best possible PL and later ASPL and set the example for my scouts I was responsible for. Yes I saved up my money and hunted thrift stores to find my size and know how difficult it is to find used uniform pants,but ebay has made it a whole lot easier to find pants since then. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Oak You may have to look at BSA precedent on this matter, i.e. 1972/73, 1979/80, 1992/93 (the addition of Family ALMOST got me) etc.