Eagle92

I waited a while before responding. I originally read this in July. Longest I procrastinated was 4.5 years, and that was to go from Life to Eagle. I had a lot of fun procrastinating

NTE, WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!! And yes I am yelling at ya Now every single person, from the 6 month old infant to the 75 y.o. grandfather needs a health form, parts A and C if memory serves. can it be a P.I.T.B., yes it can. Can it save a life, YES.

Do I know how tiresome IOLS can be for someone who has the KSAs already, yes I do. Went from straight from Boy Scout to ASM and had to do the old SM Fundamentals course. This after 10 years in the program (3 as a Cub and 7 as a Scout) and going through BA22. Only thing I did learn was the paperwork aspects of the job. Now in regards to IOLS, here are some creative ways I've seen it done. 1) Have a summer camp staffer whose only job is training do the course during summer camp. 2) Get those folks who have the KSAs but not the training to serve on staff. Good friend of mine was hired to do IOLS and SM Specific at camp. Funny thing was, although a Camping, Hiking, et al MBC and a 3 beader to boot, he had never done IOLS, so technically he wasn't trained to teach the course. But he did and made sure his name on the list. I also had some friends who needed the training serve on staff last January. I think someone who has been to Philmont 3 times has the KSAs to serve on staff. Also think someone who was a combat medic in 'Stan has the KSAs too. And apparently the folks in the course did too b/c his FA presentation was the most talked about one. Now There is a test out option where if you can demonstrate the skills, you can get passed. But Some councils, like SP's if I recall correctly, won't allow it. One thing I thought about trying out was a leaders challenge at Camporee. Something along the lines of "Are You Smarter Than a First Class Scout" where the training cadre run the competition and anyone who passes the course get IOLS signed off since it will be all T-2-1 Skills.

Outdoors, You won't hear me griping about kids and the outdoors. I believe Green Bar Bill said "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." E92 PS current BSHB misquotes him. Outing is not 2/3 of Scouting, just do the math

I home school, and it's not the fact that he is home schooled. I've met folks in public and private schools who do the same. As to how to work with them, I'd have the PL, or possibly even the SPL talk to him, and you talk to dad about how scouting works, what's expected, etc.

In regards to YPT, if yours is not current, you are dropped. And we had several leaders that happened to. My council is just getting on the mandatory training band wagon. TRechartering in 2013, all top leaders must be trained. Not trained and the charter will be on hold until the training chair talks to you and comes up with a training plan. Then it will get approved. Not trained in 2014 and the unit doesn't get rechartered. I think the training chairs involvement is a very good thing at this stage. Our training records have errors and gaps in them, so having the training chair talk to see if it a records error or a serious need is good. Best example I can give of training gaps in the records is the district commissioner who was not trained according to the records, despite teaching at Philmont. Also for those in college, and I am willing to bet in the military too but talk to the council registrar for confirmation, the 92U College Scouter Reserve (Unit) may help.

One tool I recommend for the PLC is the 3 volume set TROOP PROGRAM FEATURES and the TROOP RESOURCE BOOK. The TPF can be used as a foundation for your meetings. Definatley have the PLC add to it and modify to meet their expectations. Once upon a time all four books were in one big binder called WOODS WISDOM.

When I worked for the Eckerd Foundation, aka "Hoods in da Woods" one of the things I did was read to the teenage boys before bed. For some of them, that was the first time anyone had read them a bedtime story.

My pack also does a Pinewood Derby Workshop that some parents bring in their "toys" and the shape the cars. then the boys do the rest of the work. parents helping parents really works This year will challenging though. District moved up the PWD to the weekend after our workshop nite.

While I think training will help some, I really think that Scouting needs to get back to the basics. Focus needs to be on the outdoors and skills that will make them independent and and prepared. Unfortunately no matter how much training, no matter the quality of the training and trainers, if a new SM wants to turn his troop into a MB factory, he will do so.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

I know people abuse the system. But can I say one thing: THANK YOU FOR TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS I BET YOU HAVE REACHED A FEW! And yes I was yelling at all of you Have I been taken, yes. Am I more skeptical today, yes. Do I still help when I am able and I think the scout is worthy, Yes, if I can. But I admit it was getting hard before the 2nd one got in, and I don't think I can now with the older two in. But I may try and find resources. Why do I do this. Well I was one of those scouts in need. I believe in working for it: doing fundraisers, doing odd jobs, etc. But one time I did fall short, and about 4 weeks before a trip, I called to back out. Trip SM said give me a few days, and got a sponsor for me. I was told the best thank you was to have fun, do well in scouts, and give back when I could. It's been over 20 years, and I still don't think I've paid back in full what that sponsorship meant because the trip was one of those experience of a lifetimes.

Skeptic, Growing up I had an unit in my district that was more adult lead than youth led. Being adult led, they had an advantage in that everything was planned towards advancement, and when things started going off schedule, adults intervened. Long story short, they won a bunch of awards at summer camp, they advanced faster, etc etc. The thing that kept us going was when we interacted with them. We could tell we were doing things the right way, mistakes and all, because we were in charge. When things happened, we dealt with it, not the adults. And when the key SM behind this left the troop, it folded. When my SM left, we were still around. My first SPL in the troop I Eagled in, when I asked him when I would know someone should get signed off for First Aid Skill Award told me, "when you would trust him with your life in the woods." And he related how in Scouting, everyone in the patrol is responsible for each other. And everyone in the troop, to a lesser degree, is also responsible for each other. By making sure Scouts actually master the skills they are suppose to have mastered in order to advance, you know who you can go to when things happen. So ask your charges, "Who would you rather get stuck in the woods with: an Eagle you have serious reservations with, or the First Class Scout you know has his act together and get get you out alive?" 2Cub, Consider that SM Minute STOLEN -

Could it be something the local church is doing? LDS units still follow the old 3 year program and no overnight camping. here is a link to the most recent LDG handbook, updated June 2012. http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/scouting-handbook-2012.pdf?lang=eng

Irsap, Good game plan. One thing that may help in regards to attitude and Scout Spirit: use quotes from the Scout Oath and Law and how he lived up to it. Also ask him about how he would feel and react to someone causing the problems he has caused. Good luck.

As someone else pointed out, if a museum or other facility is putting on a program, and let me add a SOLID program with knowledgeable folks, that provides instruction with an expert, provides supplies, meets all requirements, etc, then I don't have a problem with it. The gun range is one example that was provided as well as the railroad museum ones. My example is the OA chapter that did a day long Indian Lore MB class as a fundraiser so the fee covered supplies, lunch, and a dollar or two over for the chapter. Plus we got the students to help make some of the chapter regalia. We provided supplies, instructors, created a "museum" with various regalia and artifacts, etc. BUT we we told folks they would not complete it prior to the seminar and during the seminar because of the teach two games requirement. We did play the 3 games though, and told them to contact one of the chapter members staffing once they taught the two games. But I have grave concerns with the AF place. 1-2 hours and complete the MB. I don't think so. An aside, the chapter would have lost money because we bought more food than we needed. Cook crew though we had more attending than signed up. BUT there was a shooting competition at the same location, and the cook crew was driving those folks nuts with the smell of the food cooking. We ended up selling plates to them and made more money selling food than with the seminar.

Brew, Must respectfully disagree with you on the comment that the current BSHB has everything you need to know. When I conducted IOLS in January, I needed to create a booklet with basic, traditional, T-2-1 Skills as I saw major problems with the book. From misquotes ( "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING" not 2/3 of scouting. Just do the math on that one), to outdoor checklists missing items, to skills not being shown. In regards to orientations, let the PLC come up with one for new scouts, and the SM for the parents. Every troop is different and unique.

Forgot to add, I'm an AHA instructor.

It depends. Growing up, my district didn't do much. And I only remember 1 council camporee as a Boy Scout. But we were a "Hiking and Camping troop" that was out at least once a month except December. And even then we may have an occasional December camp out. As I posted in another thread, the district and council can be overwhelming with opportunities. Heck sometimes multiple events are going on at the same time, which has ticked off some folks a time or two b/c the person scheduling KNEW what was planned by one group and how they needed certain areas to be off limits, and instead booked events. As I see it, the district and council are to support the troop's program as developed by the PLC. If the PLC don't want to attend an event, they don't.

Me personally I would accept other equivalent courses for these requirements just as BSA national accepts equivalent courses for ARC classes, AHA, NOLS, etc. And I don't consider it adding or subtracting to the requirements since the MOUs or whatever you want to call them between the different organizations all recognize certain organizations (ARC for First Aid and AHA for CPR) and agree to use that org's methods.

While I am all for visiting the brother troop and doping things with them, each is different,and sometimes the situation is different. While my son will be doing things with the CO's troop, I will also encourage him to look around as well. The troop is now having some challenges. I've mentioned some of them in other posts, but after a conversation I had, I am definitely encouraging him to look around. Kinda sad when a former SPL and Eagle candidate says he may switch units because of what is going on in a troop. Has tried to advise the current SPL, and told the SM exactly what is wrong with the troop during his SMC for Eagle. Really sad thing is this, if the soon to be Eagle does move to another troop, and my my old den finds out, they may not consider the CO's troop at all since the Eagle candidate was their den chief.

Not a history of the council, but of the OA lodge. http://www.croatan.org/history/ Marty did an OUTSTANDING job on the history of the lodge. He is also involved with national OA too.

I've been around way to long, but this one just sticks out. After I left my old troop and town to be a DE, one of my Scouts waited over 9 months to schedule his ECOH so that I could attend during my vacation. I was standing in a wedding and me taking off was part of my contract when I got the job 15 months earlier ( and I am glad I did too as they tried to cancel my vacation). I show up at my Scout's job the first day I am back in town, and when he sees me he jumps over the counter, screams my name in surprise, and give me a bear hug. At the ECOH a few days later, he talks about how I influenced him and gave a me a thank you gift: a replacement copy of Green Bar Bill's 9th ed. BSHB, the one I earned my Eagle with and my copy is somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico. One other one that may not seem like a big deal to some, but that made me proud me. I was invited to an ECOH at one of the troops I started as a DE 5 or 6 years later when I returned to the area. It was their first Eagle.

Going to play Devil's advocate here, so please bear with me. My old council sold their original camp in the 1970s due to urban development. Specifically homes and condos were being developed right up to the Scout camp property line, and despite folks knowing the camp was in existence prior to their land purchase they were complaining about noise and traffic. Eventually camp found 1600+ acres and created a new camp, selling it. Today no trace of the old camp is in existence, and the city overtook it. Sadly I can see it happening to one of my local council camps. The lots around the camp are being sold, and the community is turning into a "commuter community" to Raleigh. there is already one gated mansion across the road from the entrance to the camp, and another in the process of being built.

I am going to paraphrase BP: Never ask an adult when you can ask a youth.

Base, Unfortunately some folks are inconsiderate do not RSVP, and just show up last minute. At one banquet I attended, ok I was staffing it putting on a display and presenting two awards, so I was RSVP'd, I was the last person to get served and there was hardly anything left to eat. More people showed up than anticipated. BUT at least I was the first one in line for desert . We do charge for banquets due to the cost involved (catering and awards). And we tack on a late fee to discourage last minute signups.