Eagle92

Oh Well, just got mine for Christmas.

Actually thinking about it and it was under $150, and that included the non-BSA post-reception psrty. And yes something a little harder than soft drinks was served at that family function as this was before the 21 drinking age in LA.

$1200 for an ECOH?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! holy quacamole! I'm ballparking, but I think I spent maybe $250: food(finger sandwhiches, drinks, cake, and meatballs), invites, programs, printing, and a few gifts for key leaders. And that $250 includes a non-BSA "post reception party" for my college friends and a few of my older peers.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Belayer, Don't think it was a generational thing, more than likely a geographical thing as it does not get that cold in SE Louisiana. An the reason why I think folks who went to Philmont tended to have them was for the Bull. Looks like I have a collector's item as i can no longer find any reference to the international jacket on Scoutstuff.org, Scouting.org, or nay other website including Black Eagle's. And that purple jacket I talked about was a custom job that the troop did, the official BSA jacket was blue with the BSA international logo directly embroidered on the front. and INTERNATIONAL underneath it. As for the green jacket national put out a few years back, it was a pullover with 1/4 zip. and no FDL, had to buy it separate if memory serves. Same color as the Exploring/Venturing shirt.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Belayer, As a youth the red jacket's were considered cool b/c usually the only folks who wore them were those who went to Philmont. They were not a must have item, and usually the jacket folks wore were surplus field jackets. The most common scout jackets were either the red windbreaker, or a custom job. The troop I was with for my Canadian expedition had a custom job in purple, with the WC on the front (if I remember correctly) and the trip patch's design on the back. really spiff. I'm the only person I know of with the blue International windbreaker, do they even make those anymore?

2CUB, Every troop has their own standards and traditions. Some troop give the youth options, some are set in stone, and some let the eagle do whatever they want. And believe it or not I've seen troop that do allow the PLC to plan the COH in toto, and that did include skits and songs. Second best ECOH I saw was a young man who was heavily involved in the OA dance team, had the ECOH at the local camp with the OA dance team performing, including an Eagle Dacne that he performed.

NO, bring back the GREEN Fleece jackets that were available in the 1997-1999 range. looked good AND reely looked awesome with the Exploring/Venturing Uniforms. I was just about to get one when they were discontinued and I was not happy. Not to change the subject, but I am anyway, If national no longer wanted RED in the BSA uniform, then why is BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA on the CU shirts in red, and they decided to keep the red jackets (remember there was a brief period in 2008/2009 where the red jackets were unavailable for purchase from national and the word was they were going to be recalled from the shops like the ODL uniform items)?

I personally would ask what the Eagle wants to do as it is his advancement. 95% of the time I've seen 1 eagle at a time. 4% of the time it is either a double ECOH (two brothers in one case) or a once per year troop Eagle COH. Now 1% of the time I've seen it in conjunction with a normally scheduled COH. In the two cases I've seen, a normal COH was held and ended. These were usually 20-30 minutes max, THEN a formal ECOH began. But again I'ld talk to the Eagle as it is his COH.

2cub, Actually it's easier than it looks. I am by no means an expert in sewing, but even I can get it right.

Ok found another site showing the Brownsea strip as I was told http://www.troop243lafayette.org/files/downloads/pdf/Left_Arm.pdf

BDP, No I cannot, and trust me I wish I could. Closest I could find to any type of link is this one http://www.johnedelmann.com/brownsea22.html and that is more a memoir than anything. I know Black Eagle posted that the BROWNSEA Strip goes between the unit number and POR. Never have seen it like that before. So I am questionable about his info. Also he has the dates wrong for the course as I attended the course after 1982 which he states was the last year. http://www.infinetivity.com/~blkeagle/brownsea.htm Also according to this website http://www.troop30.org/uniforming.htm it is worn only for the duration of the course. Again never heard that one before and everyone I knew who completed the course wore their strip and usually their smokey bear that the council issued to them upon completion of the course. The smokey was a council tradition I'm told. Now there was another site that gave great detail of the course, but A) only gave a description of the patch and not the location and B) gave a story I never heard of why teh course was Called Brownsea 22. Something about happening dfor the second time in the second half of the world or some story. What we were told was that it was in rememberance of the 22 folks who attended the original Borwnsea: 20 scouts, BP, and BP's nephew who served as an ADC to BP b/c he was not old enough to be a scout (first Cub Scout Perhaps?).

Yep and if you are authentic they WILL kick you out. True story, My wife borrowed my sis-in-law's leper costumer she made for the college theater. Wife and I go to the local ren fair, and of course goes all out as a leper, including wooden begging bowl and clapper, foul smelling, dirty clothes, and the clincher was the decaying flesh created by layers of superglue, makeup, and paint. It was awesome. We go the fair, hang around for a bit, but then some big wig with the group sees my wife, blasts her and her costume, and kicks us out.

In reference to stove, I went with the MSR Whisperlite International stove. I talked to folks, got peoples opinions, and read reviews. While I haven't cooked on it yet, I played with it this past weekend. Super lite weight, looks easy to maintain, and easy to use. Now Some folks prefer the Simmerlite since it does have some controls to adjust the flame, but I'm on a budget. Plus like the multifuel capability.

WHOA when did they change it to include the pick up/blacklist? ALSO does that negate the previous edition of the new form that did not include that info? I'll be ticked off if my from is no longer valid after 1 january b/c it is the " old" version of the new form. Also what I find curioys that some of the verbiage appears different in Section B. Also I know I read somewhere that Section B had to be filled out for CSDC, with the word "may" and the removal of H/W restrictions for jambo, is that no longer the case for CSDC?

OGE, Yep that is the argument given. But when you are outing, you have a minimum of 4 folks as a rule. 1 person treats, two run off to get help. So scouts by that rational wouldn't be doing the carrying. OR if they did want to move the victim, you got three people to move the victim. Now 330 may be pushing it at an average 110#, but say a 240# Devil Dog, that's 80# per person. Much more doable. Plus the larger the group, the ability to rotate carriers develops. So as you can see I don't buy that argument given. Also the language used scares me as I do think it's a lawsuit waiting to happen IF a council doesn't enforce the H/W guidelines at ALL events as recommended, instead of just the restricted activities that are mandatory now. Further OA Ordeals do fall under the mandated activities if memory serves. Speaking of language, as mentioned the 30 minute rule is not defined, and again I believe leaves an opening for a lawsuit. EDITED: not defined on the actual document, but in the FAQs. Finally I do not like the response in the FAQ in reference to SSN. IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO RECEIVE EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE PER HIPAA (caps for emphasis). more later(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Brent, AHA teaches compression only CPR IF, and I stress the IF, you are in a situation that 1) You do not have a barrier 2) the victim is an adult, stressing ADULT 3) and you are uncomfortable giving mouth to mouth. Infant child still needs breathing irregardless. I've been told to be on the look out for a 50:2 ratio. Told that the science points to that as an acceptable ratio for adults for adults at the last conference in 2005, but there were some skeptics so they only did 30:2. We'll see in 2011 when it gets updated from the 2010 conference

Ana, According to what was discussed over on SC, doesn't matter what the BMI from another method is, only the height/weight method of calculating BMI counts. So if some of the Devil Dogs in my council who have a BMI

Should have edited when I had the chance, pesky kids. That last sentence should read "I honestly think he DOES NOT need it." (Caps to emphasis late edit.

Hico, Agree 100% on this one.

Above post should have read, "...can anyone tell me of another occasion IN THE PAST, that the unit number does not touch the CSP besides when worn with a vet bar? Instead of "...can anyone tell me of another occasion that the unit number does not touch the CSP besides when worn with a vet bar?"

HICO, One big difference between leaders from 30 years ago, or even 20 in my case, and today, IS the lack of outdoor skills. Most of your generation of leaders were WWII vets. They had the basic skills from their time in the service. Ditto my leaders who were Vietnam vets, or still serving in a few cases. Since the all volunteer military, outdoor skills learned in military service have been lost. That's why I like the idea of the Challenge. I think it would be easy to set up such a challenge at a camporee where the adults with the could demonstrate the t-2-1 skills. I also like idea of having someone with the skills already, but haven't gone through the official course yet, serving on staff teaching what he knows, and getting signed off on it. Still trying to get my WB21C trained friend who has not taken IOLS, but has served on summer camp staff, been through BA22 as a youth, serves as a Camping, Hiking, Pioneering, backpacking, Wilderness Survival MBC, and is an Eagle to work on an IOLS course. I honestly think he needs it.

Agree with the Beav 110% get the backpacking stuff from the get go,as it will move your progrma to more adventures AND save money in the long term. Also good lists of troop gear, with modern updates of course, can be found in the 1979 ed. of the BSHB as well as the 3rd ed. SMHB.

Ken, While BP can defend himself, I will say this in his defense. 1) Yes lots of folks become pros who do have experience as youth in the movement. Some have a hard time transitioning from Scout/Scouter to Professional as their thought is " I can get paid to be a Scout?" others do take the time to research what is involved. I know I served on the district committee and did some job shadowing with my DE prior to becoming a pro. Also worked summer camp staff with pros and worked PT with the supply division. 2) The other factor why lots of young pros leave is the leadership environment at the top of the council. While this problem is not everywhere, it was widespread enough when I was a DE as the topic came up at PDL-1. Some pros DO live up to the Oath and Law, and their careers tend to be on the slow moving path. Now grant you if you do an outstanding job, you will get recognized and promoted up through the ranks. BUT I've met folks who have been "creative" in getting their membership stats. It is very hard and discouraging to work your butt off to meet a membership goal that you realize that was set with some of those "creative" membership ideas. And let's not forget the pressure the upper management is applying to you to meet those goals, i.e. "meet the goal or you're fired." I was fortunate enough not to be in that situation, but a friend of mine was, had a nervous breakdown, and left the profession over it. However I have a feeling that if I hadn't left when I did, that threat would have been given to me as I refused to be 'creative" with membership recruitment, and my district was down b/c I did not recharter an extremely large mega unit. Onto the bright side. An SE who has a vision, and begins implementing it CAN be successful. My SE has a vision of providing more programing opportunities to all members. We have implemented a series of CS family campouts and in the process or organizing a mega event for the anniversary. Guess what, our membership is up. To paraphrase a quote, Create a program and they will join! As stated a good SE needs to be a financial steward, spending money wisely and with the most bang for the buck. Scouting isn't cheap as we all know, so knowing the what, when, and where to spend money is important. Communication is another key. Got to be able to communicate your vision. Ok gotta go now.

Out of curiosity, what would it take to set up a trail and make recognitions for the trail? I ask b/c the idea of the district and/or council having units work on a trail that goes around a local recreational area, with a side trail going to the BSA camp, has been proposed.

Since this thread is revived, can anyone tell me of another occasion that the unit number does not touch the CSP besides when worn with a vet bar? I know that BROWNSEA 22 participants and graduates were authorized a BROWNSEA Strip between the CSP and the 22 during the course, their regular unit number after graduation. If memory serves. Or maybe it was upon graduating that we wore the BROWNSEA strip between the CSP and unit number? I hate getting old