Eagle92

BP, A few points. 1) Not trying to insult, but rather educate. 18-21 yos do have KSAs that DO make them experts in some fields. I gave myself as example when I was teaching Swimming, Lifesaving, Rowing, and Canoeing MBs. At the age of 15, I did my first 50 miler via canoe in the Canadian wilderness. At the age of 16, I became a YMCA certified lifeguard and swimming instructor. And at age 18 I became a YMCA Lifeguard instructor and a BSA Lifeguard. Per the MBC standards I was qualified to teach these MBs b/c it was both VOCATION, i.e. I taught Lifeguarding and swimming year round and SPECIAL TRAINING, ie. getting certified to teach swimming, to be a lifeguard, and a lifeguard instructor. If memory serves, back in the day once I turned 21 I could have signed up to be a BSA Lifeguard Instructor since I was already a YMCA Lifeguard Instructor with a skills check off and test. 2)You are correct that some folks in the OA do dress up as Hollywood Indians, and it has caused a lot of problems for the OA. Heck I've seen it myself and have tried to change that problem. But I also know of OA folks who have gotten really involved in NA culture, and are respected int he NA communuty. A few current and former OA names off the top of my head include Scott Evans, Jack Heriad, and Darry Woods. Evans wrote the Northern Traditional book, Heriad publishes Whispering Wind and has been very helpful with the Houma petition for federal recognition, and Woods is a member of the Ponca Hethuska. All three got started via the OA. Right now I know of two youth who have an interest in singing. Just so happened that they met one of the local singing groups, have been practicing with them, and are now part of the group. They go to powwows and may be on the group's next album. And in referecne to regalia, most folks who are serious DO put serious time and money into getting it right. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent sewing, doing beadwork, doing featherwork, etc or how much money I've spent buying those things I couldn't do myself, ie. fingerweaving, and ribbonwork, or correct supplies, i.e. multistriped tradecloth, feathers, etc. They are respectful and do participate in powwows. Heck I even placed at one local powwow (don't ask me how, I just paid my fee to support the powwow committe and for the feed. Since I was there just to have funn and meet old friends, I donated the prize money to the drums as they earned it). And please remember a youth in the OA can be in the 18-20 bracket, so they do meet the age requirements.And Thinking about it, MBCs are a DISTRICT COMMITTEE position, so to be registered they must use an adult form. That inlcudes 18-20 yo Venturers who want to be MBCs; they fill out the adult form and are part of the DC. So I guess the entire "youth" discussion is moot since as MBCs are registered adults on a DC. Now I want to hear more about the job description that goes along with the OAIV staff.

Emb, Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I better start saving up $ now to attend NOACS in addition to jambo in the next couple of years. Also in addition to SE area being a "demand", any others?Know a good bit on Houma culture and colonial period relations.

My biggest pet peeve in Scouting is not the units that are not in full uniform, not the leaders with all kinds of do dads on their uniform that are incorrectly worn, and not the lack of communication from national on such things as the recent addition of IOLS to Venturing leaders with outdoor programs. It Scouters who believe that 18-21 yo Scouters and Venturers do not have the KSAs to do a job due to their age. Ok it is that and not believing that an older scout/Venturer who has been through program has the KSA to teach younger youth. Let's face it part of letting Scouts grow is giving them the opportunity to teach what they knwo to younger scouts. As for Venturers several fo the awards require a good bit of knowledge and to teach some one some of the basics in certain areas. I think a 18yo Venturer with the Ranger Award woudl make an ideal MBC for such MBs as Camping, Backpacking, etc. Or that 20 yo ASM who has been doing Native American Dance since he was joined the OA at 14 and has competed at conclaves, NOAC, and has taught at conclave and lodge fellowships would make a good Indian Lore MBC. Scouting gives folks experiences and opportunities to grow and mature faster than their peers, and also responsibility in the various PORs. So why is it that some build up folks as they are youth, only to say they don't know what they are doing once they turn 18? Sorry to ramble on and vent, but this occurred to me when I was in the 18-23 yo bracket (specifically when I became the OA chapter adviser from 21-23,had a SM tell me I don't know what I'm doing or anything about the OA despite me being on the ECM as a youth and a Vigil).And some discussions recently are bringing this back up.

BP, At 18 I not only became a ASM, I was also registered as a MBC. I taught Swimming, Lifesaving, Rowing, and Canoing MBs because I was a certified BSA Lifeguard AND a YMCA Lifeguard Instructor, back when they still taught the "hand to hand combat." Please do not knock the KSAs of 18-21 yos. Heck don't knock the KSAs of some of your older scouts as I have seen some do excellent jobs teaching the specific outdoor skills. I have even recommended that some of the older scouts working at my local summer camp help teach IOLS at camp to #1 train adults in the basics, #2 show adults what can happen when you allow Scouts to grow using the patrol method, and #3 to show the adults how the youth are being taught in the MB classes, and #4 keep the scouts teaching the class on their toes As for OA members not being qualified to teach IL MB, if you are a dancer and/or singer you definately will be, and if you do ceremonies depending upon how serious you are you can be. While some lodges do have problems in AIA, some don't. If one truly gets into Native American Dance or Singing, they will be spending more time going to powwows, learning traditional crafts needed to make regalia, learning the origins of the dances or songs, culture, etc. And while the Plains look is common for ceremony teams, some teams do conduct research into local nations and go that route.By the time you are finished the research and make the correct, period, regalia, you will know enough to teach the MB, at least in your neck of the woods. Heck one chapter I was with did an IL MB seminar in which the recipients received a partial as a fundraiser While I did supervise and teach part of the class, the youth did the bulk of the work. No complaints about the seminar, and again folks earned a partial. Back to my question now for those in the know, is it true that OA Indian Village is one of the hardest areas to get assigned to? I've been told that it helps if you attended a few NOACs and/or conclaves, and develop a good rep.

BP, One thing to remember, in the OA a person is a youth until 21, so a GAS (Gray Area Scouter, i.e. 19-21)can be a MBC. Emb and BDPT, Out of curiosity, how difficult is it for a youth or an adult to get onto OA Indian Village staff. I was told it is fairly difficult.

Speaking of doign yoru own research... on another thread it was said that toques did not have the balllike fringe at the end, and it certainly looks like that last link has a toque with the balllike fringe.

Lisa, Yep part of the problem IMHO is that the adults have been running things. They haven't allowed the youth to correct problems, and now the trouble makers are part of the PLC, which should be the ones handling things at first. Since they are PLC members, then the SPL needs to have a chat with the SM abotu this ASAP since he is having problems with them. I am assuming he has tried to discuss the problem with them and they are ignoring him. Yep SM and committee need to jump in ASAP.

le V, Is that a matchcoat in the link here? http://images.mayberryfineart.ca/1165957656_hunterandsquaw.jpg

Looks like leV and I were writing at the same time. In reference to doing my own research, some advice I received from a website for reenacting newbies is to talk, listen, and take notes from those who have been doign it awhile as they do have a wealth of information, but use what they told you as a springboard for your own research. You still need to do your own research. Not trying to discount le V one bit, in fact he is a wealth of information and would love to meet him at an event if possible, but thorough research is still needed. An example of that is my current capote with fringe.

OGE, le V mentioned that capote's of the F&I war period didn't have fringe. That was in another thread. Doing some searching online only, I noticed that he was correct. Grant you I didn't do a lot of searching and haven't looked in all of my books and elsewhere, but he seems to be correct. Now the capote with fringe seems to be an 1800s thing, possibly Native American in origin. As for the site you listed, that was one of the sources I sued in makign my capote, the others being the Missouri River pattern I borrowed and the Whispering Wind Craft Annual. The link above and the other sources said use buttons, but I couldn't break down and cut up the blanket any more, plus I wanted the "just right" feel to it, ie the capote felt comfotable to wear and WARM. So I used toggles, rope, thread, and imitation sinew instead of buttons.

Stosh, The Centennial Necker is the old size 35.5 x 35.5 x 52(?) and looks very spiff with either the tan and green or venturing uniforms. not so spiff with the CS uniform, esp. since it is too large for CS, BUT it is authorized for them as well. And as I mentioned, whoever is resposnible for the Scoutstuff FB page mentioned that the old size neckers will be coming out in 2010, May if I recall. But we will see.

TIES WE DON"T NEED NO STINKING TIES! LOL I admit I'm a necker freak, even if most American neckers are too small. BUT I prefer a tie to no necker at all. I know of one unit that apparently has a supply of ties for their leaders to wear. At the 1 ECOH I attended, and every district banquet they attend, all the leaders from the troop are wearing ties. It looks good, but not as great as a properly sized necker As for buying a tie, look on ebay, thrift stores, and antique stores. Also look at some of the long time distributorships. I knwo fo 1 distributorship that still has a supply of TC Coach patches from when TCs was a separate program. Also when one distributorship closed shop, I found a 1970s leather belt with international style buckle. As for neckers, if what was posted on FB is correct, we'll be seeing the larger neckers in the near future. If so, then I will be buying new, larger Eagle and CS Leader neckers. Long Live the Necker!

I am one of those youth who as a scout received "scholarships" to do things. While scholarships are GREAT (caps for emphasis), I also say having those in need put some "sweat equity" into the funding helps. I'll give you some examples. With my troop, we did one weekend long fundraiser every year, and guess where I was all weekend. While the money I raised did go into my Scout account, that money was used to pay for dues and trips. When I went to Canada, the contingent did a series of fundraisers. yep I did every one. Contingent also found odd jobs for those of us to work, i.e. cutting grass, for additional help. For those that needed additional help, we approached the VFW, American Legion, and VVA for help. I was able to raise about 2/3 of the fund, and a scholarship for the rest. The only time I got a "free" was when the troop paid for 1/2 my expenses to attend BA22, the NYLT of it's time. HOWEVER the expectation was that I would take what iI learned at BA22, and use it with the troop to make it better. Talking to the parents and cub about what's expected and how they can help themselves via fundraisers is somehting I would also add to whatever converstaion is done.

I am going to give the DE the benefit of the doubt on this one, as he may be unable to get rid of the dual registration, i.e. 1 unit registered as two. I had a similar situation as a DE and the PTB did not want me to get rid of either unit. However I did get creative; got permission from IH to transfer the charter to a new CO. grant you it was a new unit that I missed getting credit for, but believe that the problem was more important to solve. I am an optimist and agree with Dances with Spread Sheets. I think if you can get them to jhave a vision, AND meet fellow Venturing leaders, it will work.

one idea i like is havign the unit leaders visit a great unit and having a chat with the leaders. It sounds hokey, and yes that is what is shown in the FS video, but before that ever came out, that method was used. I remember a few visits from new troop leaders, both adult and youth, back in the day.

Scoutnut, Yep the adult leaders are ultimately responsible for behavior and discipline. BUT part of becoming a leader is being able to control the behior of the group you are responible for, whether patrol or troop. If you do not give the PLC authority to handle the discipline problems, to a point, then how can they learn to use their authority and grow if everytime their is a problem, they need to see the SM? Growing up for the most part the PLs and SPL handled discipline problems. Ocassionally the SM did have to get involved, but we usually handled it ourselves. PL reported to the SPL who reported to SM.

Not a good situation to be in and good luck. My take. #1 get the PLC involved. That's right the PLC needs to haev a talk about the problems with the SM. SPL should be taking notes to give to the SM abotu the problems. Youth usually know more abotu what's going on than the adults do. #2 After the PLC meeting, SM meets with Troop Committee. If violence and destuction are actually involved, that needs to be brought up ASAP. Also the "exit interviews' on why folks are leaving should be brought up. #3 If there is enough to remove the youth, get the COR and IH's in the loop ASAP as they are ultimately responsible and can void the committee's descision. #4 have a meeting with the youth and parents informing them of the youths removal fromt he troop. I would have a copy of their records available and a transfer form filled out forthem to move to another unit.

Relax and have fun with it. and CONGRATULATIONS on your future Eagle.

Great thing about SMCs is that they can be done at ANYTIME whle a scout is workign on advancement, not necessarily the last thing they do as is usually practiced.

If the office won't help you, ask your training chair or DE. they will be more than happy to help you.

2Cub, Don't feel bad. We had 1 chapter in my lodge refuse to have any of their members go through the Brotherhood Ceremony as my chapter's reagalia was based upon the 1920/30s regalia of black robes and Native American headdresses. thought we were satanic with the robes. They use robes at OATC, and some of our folks came back from OATC and wanted to use robes.

You actually will need to contact your registrar. I knew something was wrong when I kept transferring to a new council and I would have to YPT again as they did not show me doing it. They never told me I about Fast Start or any of the other trainings I was "missing," So I wasn't concerned. Then when I got a copy of the district training report which showed I was "untrained," well I made it a point to get my records, and the other leaders in my district corrected since I was the trainign chair at the time.

As someone else mentioned, mandatory training is on our way. One of the consequences for not getting trained within the year is removal from the charter. And yes it will happen. When national said that long term scouters must submit a form granting a background check or be removed, those scouters who didn't WERE REMOVED. Yep there was some complaining in my neck of the woods buy some leaders who didn't submit the paperwork, but we handled it with a new leader app. As for training records, they suppose , and I stress SUPPOSE, to be transportable from one council to another via SCOUTNET. BUT if one council didn't put the records in, they won't be there. Happened to me several times, like 5 times in 7 years.

Yep they forgot all about the 98 year old Sea Scout program. But most Sea Scouts are use to being the red-headed step child of Scouting.

732, The SM is ultimately responsible for advancement. BUT the BORs are conducted by the committee for the most part, Eagle being the possible exception, and the SM does need the support of the committee. That said, BSA policy is currently working on they can continue. back in the day when you had time requirements and Skill Awards, there would be no questions like the one being posed.