Eagle92

The more I read about troops elsewhere and the challenges faced by other scouters and scouts, the more I appreciate the troop I grew up in, and ther troops I've been affiliated with. The troops have been boy run with little, a few of the troops I joined as a leader who were getting started, to almost no adult intervention, my troop growing up and one other as an adult. The troops offered a variety of campign experiences. Yep my troop growing up mostly did car camping, but also wilderness survival and backpacking expereinces. Also the troop I grew up in had a good relationship with the other troops in the district, so we had scouts going to Philmont and other HA activities with others. Now I admit some hazing did occur in the troop of my youth. It was organinzed by the PLC, occured at summer camp, only happened once to a scout, and usually consisted of childish pranks of moving the tents around, putting equipment up the flagpole, shaving cream in boots, etc. Anyone who did a prank and it wasn't approved was punished by the PLC. Now that hazing did stop altogether about my 2nd year in the troop. BUT we were very protective of our own. One year there was a troop at summer camp that was causing all kinds of havoc until they were kicked out mid week. the PLC organized the troops and dealt with the problem. After one incident, that troop did not bother any member of my troop, knowing to avoid anyone with a keystone on their t-shirt like the plague. Now some folks consider singing for your lost stuff hazing, but the PLC didn't and that did continue. Usually the SPL, ASPL or Pl would join in the singing. As for leaders and their scoutign skills, while all of the adults knew the T-2-1 skills and could teach IF need be, the older scouts did the teaching, most adults specialized in one or two areas. Our job was to make sure the older scoutsknew their skills and could teach them properly. Adults didn't get involved until it was MB time. We weren't perfect, out meetings were organized chaos, a nd yes we did have some parents and prospective members who didn't like how we ran things and not join. BUT there is no doubt in my mind that anyone who got to First Class in my troop could go out on there own in a wildeness setting and survive. there is no doubt in my mind, that those who got to First Class are good citizens who are makign a difference in the community they live in and nation as a whole.

Yep it would be nice if there was 1 uniform for all, kinda like some other scout associations do, but I doubt that BSA will move in that direction b/c A) there are some traditions and B) uniforms are a moneymaker for BSA. In reference to the orange t-shirt, in the 1980s and early 1990s, the offical TC uniform consisted of an orange t-shirt and orange and white hat. No socks, shorts/pants, belt required. And a orange sweatshirt was optional. While the TC is not in a CURRENT uniform , i.e. in a blue CS uniform with TC stuff , he is in a VINTAGE uniform, and thus uniformed. Now in reference to the CS pants. I discovered when oldest bought his uniform that the pants still have the adjustable waist, and can go up 2 sizes, i.e. son is a size 6 but has the size 10 switchbacks. Also if you don't cut the legs, you can hem them in a way that you can cut the seams and lengthen them as he grows. mom did that to my pants in the day, and I did it to son's. Now grant you the quality doesn't seem to be as good as the older, USA made pants. oldest wasn't happy when his pants got a split inthe crotch after 2 wearings, BUT they are guarennteed by national, and when I replaced them, I was able to replace the hemmed legs from the old pair with the unhemmed legs of the new pair. Luckily they were new enough that there was no differences in color due to wear. And yes I did inform Supply of the problem.

Tex, Yep once official, always offical. We have one TC who still wears the old orange T-shirt. Also when SHMBO becomes a TCDL in a few years, she will be wearing her vintage 1950s Den Mother uniform 'casue she HATES the tan and greens.

Ambrose was an excellent author, one I wished I would have studied under. However I did study under one of his proteges. Recoomend anything written by Ambrose, but again be wary of language. However I did study under one of his proteges. Also one of the soldiers in Band of Brothers, sorry forgot the guy's name ( Beleive it's Webster) but he was the Ivy Leaguer serving as a private, has an excellent account of his experiences published. Also if he is into the navy, I recommend a destroyer video that came out about 7 years ago. The programers spent several days at the KIDD, taking photos and talkign to staff, including 1 vet who served aboard the KIDD, to create the game. Also check out History Channel's Fletcher Class Destoryers program, again filmed at teh KIDD.

Talk to the pack leadership as this will be a "Don't Want To Miss It" event.

Scoutfish, In reference to the Regional Jambo and CS Family Campout, www.eccbsa.org is the East Carolina Council's homepage that has the info. BE ADVISED that the book is constantly being updated as things get finalized. I am helping out on the CS side of things. Cost is approx $15/person, with a max of $30 per CS family. Meal tickets are extra, estimated $7-10 range, and are only available for staff and CSs, Scouts and Venturers not on staff cook their own meals. Yep CS and their families have an option on cooking or not. BAck to the OP Another option would be to visit museums and talk to the folks there. Most staffers i've met are really knowldgable about their collection and have stories to tell. I worked at the USS KIDD DD661 in Baton Rouge, LA (the "most authentically restored ship" in the Historic Naval Ships Association fleet) while in grad school, and can tell you all of the staff knew their stuff. Heck we had to take a written test just to be able to to do an oral presentation with trainer to aprove us for tours. Anyway best part of the job was listening to the Vets at the reunions and listening to their stories. Man I wish I had a tape recorder. And yes I and others did use some of the stories to add a little flavor to the tours, esp my overnite tours when there was no time rush. two favorite stores was how to make "Torpedo Juice" and how the destroyer go their ice cream machine aboard ship and their supply of ice cream mix. KIDD wasn't known as the 'Pirate of the Pacific" for nothing

If you can make it, go to the USS NORTH CAROLINA'S Living History weekend in March and October. While not talking to WWII vets, you may be talking to Vietnam and later vets, trust me they dodo ALOT of research and interviews. Long story short they WILL tell you like it was. Also if possible go to the NC state archives and talk to Col. Cy Harrington (sp) he is the military archivist, and oneof his projects is collecting oral histories from ALL NC vets. In fact one local Eagle did his project collecting 30+ oral histories Also visit your local library, you may be surprised at how much WWII material they have. Mine has an Aisle full of WWII materials, which surprised me greatly. Only problem is that as soon as I finish a batch of my WWII or Korean War books, I get another batch Now grant you I don't know much about children's lit in the area, my focus was grad school related, but I'd read the books first just to check on language. ALSO if you are going to the Kinston Regional Jamboree and CS Family Camp in April, there may, stressing MAY be reenactors there.

Scoutfish said it best. When you are RECOGNIZED as a scout, either through the paperwork and/or uniform, folks WILL hold you to a higher standard. FOlk will expect you to be able to handle ANY first aid and/or emergency situation. While some may mock when someone says they are a Scout or a Scouter,and usually they are the young in my experience, most older folks will have high expectations. BTW Scoutfish are you going to the regional jambo in Kinston in April, If so see ya there!

Check wiht the Staging Den and Pack Ceremonies book or the How To Book.

CNY, I'd recommend your son start making phone calls NOW, especially if he is 18 as they have a limited window to have an EBOR without council or national OK. An excellent Scout of mine was turned away at his EBOR b/c it was past the point where they could hold it. He had to petition national for an exemption. I think he had a great reason for having it late: district couldn't send a rep for a EBOR prior to boot camp, so it was arranged after boot camp and MOS school. He got it.

TO clarify, I say IS a probelm no to suggest that it is still happening, rather our membership stats are based upon those inflated numbers and folks think BSA is losing membership. Again I disagree and looking at the actual numbers 11 years ago vs the numbers today, my district has grown. maybe not as much as folks want, but it is growing.

Ok I'm back. Agree with Kahuna about urban scouting being a cause of losing membership, the other is the decline in Total Available Youth (TAY). Youth want adventure and excitement. You get them started early, they won't turn into couch potatoes. BUT you must deliver that promise. As for the ghost unit comment, I know that was/is a MAJOR problem, and believe BSA has fixed the proccess with the new membership verification process. I also beleive that the membership stats today are a truer representation than they were 10 years ago and that BSA is actually growing; with the "membership declines" resulting form BSA cleaning the records.

Kahuna, Ghost units go back THAT far?!?!?!?! I thought it started in the early 90s. HOLY GUACAMOLE!

Art, the "Victory Sign" reversed is not "up yours" but rather "go forth and multiply." and the US version is considered the polite version of that over there. True story, I am teaching rifle shooting at a camp over there, and I use that sign to show a rear sight and a index finger on the other hand to show the front sight. Girl Guides and leaders freaked out when I did that. I didn't know any better, and kept on. Later that day I had a discussion with the camp warden.

Anyone else?

So if it is reasonable to expect leaders and youth in a uniform at EBORs, then what should we do if they do not meet those expectations?

Nike, in a nutshell they took the OUTING out of ScOUTING. looking at my $1.60 BSHB from the time i am going ot give you a list of the Eagle MBs first aid citizenship in the community citizenship in the nation citizenship in the world communications safety emergency preparedness or lifesaving environmental science personal management personal fitness or swimming or sports Notice they took out camping for tenderfoot you had to earn citizenship Skill Award (SA) and one other as well as any MB For @nd Class you had to earn 3 SAs and 2 more MBs For 1st you had to earn an additional 3 SAs and earn 2 more MBs for a total of 5 with First Aid and Cit Comm being required. The SAs included citizenship, first aid, community living, communications, hiking, camping, cooking, environment, conservation, physical fitness, and swimming. BUT only Citizenship SA and First Aid SA were required, Citizenship for Tenderfoot, First Aid SA to get the MB. So when Kudu states that an Eagle from the 1970s could have gotten it without going on a single campout, it looks as if he is 100% correct in reviewing the requirements of the time. Now I know my cousin sped through the program b/c A) Eagle/Silver uncle was pushing him and B) he didn't want to have to start allover with the new eagle requirements. But once he got eagle, the program stagnated for him. As for my older brothers, in talking to my mom 3 things happened to get the uninterested in Scouting. 1) was the family move 2) the new troop was boring to them (apparently the troop WAS a new troop with an leader trained in the urban scouting program and not traditional scouting) and 3) a very serious pedophile scandal in the city. that last one may not have affected my brothers as much as the first two, but it was the deal killer for my mom. She didn't think about looking at other troops.

In reference to attire to EBOR members, is it reasonable for them to set the example by their expectations? In reference to Eagle Candidates in a troop/team/ship, is it reasonable to expect them to be in uniform since the these units are part of a uniformed program? In reference to Eagle Candidates in Venturing crews, is it reasonable to expect them to be in the crew's distinct identity uniform, even if that only means wearing a tie-dye t-shirt, crew's hooded sweatshirt, reenacting attire, etc?

While it's been a while since I was with a unit that has used state or national park land, we have never had any problems, except maybe staying in the bike lane on the Natchez Trace. Then again in the dark ages before LNT there were this idea of "leaving a campsite better than you found it," and later "Leave only footprints, take only memories." the only way you could tell we were in a campsite after we packed up was the ground areas that didn't have dew on them. We took care of the campsite, and policed after ourselves.

Emb, AAAAAAWWWWWWWW GOTTA SHARE! LOL We'll find out tomorrow.

While I'm on the CS level now, my affilaition with the OA has intro'd me to all of the troops. And yes the OA did stop during thje summer b/c most troops were at camp. Now we do have one or two that close down for the summer, and one that meets alternating weeks. I don't really understand that so I like the troop that meets every week, except summer camp. I see a wide mix in the type of camping. yep car camping is prevelent, but I do see some backingpacking. I also see some units starting to promote backpacking more and more. Heck there is an idea flaoting around to create a walking/backpacking trail nearby and use it for a backpackign camporee. Now one outdoor skill I was shocked to see suffering is firebuilding. Out of all the patrols at the district camporee in the fall, only two could build and light a fire with only two matches. AND one fo those was a NSP that got some assistance from a judge. All the patrols save oen got advice on what to do, but the NSP had a demonstration on how to prep the wood. the one patrol that didn;t need any help was able to build and start a fire, boil the water, cook a noodle, and tie it in a square knot in about 32 mintues. I think part of the firebuilding problem may be that my state was under a fire ban fo so long. Also more and more troops are using stoves. More later.

A few comments that may stray form the original post. 2 factors have caused BSA membership to decline in the past. One was the introduction "urban scouting" and the other was the decline in the birthrate in the population, both hitting in the 1970s. As for current membership decline, I have no evidence but anecdotal, but the inflation of membership stats may have been more widespread than initially believed. I can tell you that actual number now vs actual numbers 11 years ago in my district are up. Although technically they are down. As for me, I believe if we deliver the promise of adventure, we will grow. Hopefully Cub Scouts 2010 will spark an increase. maybe we need more outdoor programming for the Cubs? I know that I could get every boy interested in Scouting when I did school roundups when I talked about camping, bb guns, archery, etc.

L, thanks for postign that this is a freebie for the BSA. To partially quote Han Solo in SW EpIV ANH "Yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaa...."(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Speaking of Summercamps, i just sent the link to our CD.

Concur with the suggestion ot keep these goign AFTER 12-31-10, and Why didn't they announce this earlier so we can find MBCs for them AND give the Scouts start a complete 12 months to work on them.