Eagle92

'Fish, I agree with you 99.999% on this one. However One caveat with the uniforms and BORs I've seen. At one time, you did not have to be a registered member of the BSA to sit on a BOR. if memory serves at least one member of the BOR had to be a member, but you could have members of the community and other scouts' parents serve on them. So obviously they would not have a uniform. FYI. Also at one time YOUTH served on BORs, I did on several occasions in my role as PL and Leadership Corps member. And yes were were in complete uniform, save the sashes. Yes we required sashes on the "candidate" because #1 the seriousness of the BOR and #2 allowed members to see what he earned and ask questions about his experiences.

My thoughts on some things as other said part of what I said more eloquently. I also do not think it's adding to the requirements. To me wearing the complete uniform is an EXPECTATION, at all events; meetings, trips, BORs, etc. It is written in the by-laws (ok I don't think that should be necessary, but I am in a unti withthem so I can't really say anything ) As for not wearing his current rank and POR, WHY IS HE NOT WEARING THEM? (caps for emphasis). The Scout has had at least 6 months to sew the rank patch on. As for the POR, unless he is new to that POR he has also had time to sew the POR emblem on as well. It doesn't take that long to sew on the rank patch on a pcoket. And while the Centennial uniform's sleeve pocket makes it more challenging to put on a POR, it still only takes a few minutes to put it on. Where is his scout spirit? Also if he is at an event outside the troop, how is someone to know he is the SPL withou the insignia? Also adults need to set the example. SM shouldn't be in jeans. PS, in reviewing my pack's by laws, I just realized that I am "out of uniform" as I wear my necker the proper way of over a tucked under collar, like BP, GBB and West said it should be worn, and not the current style of under a collar. OOPS. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Everyone, Great posts. OGE. No I'm not Benson, BUT I am hoping to do the "Benson Boogie" Feb 8th when I wake up from passing out onthe 7th. GO SAINTS!

Whether Cubber, someone with no scouting expereince, or and Eagle Scout is better all depends upon the individual. Now I've seen a bunch of Cub Scouters move up with their sons into troops, and need a year or so to "unlearn" and be "retrained." heck I fell into that probelem with the OA after I stepped down as OA chapter adviser to become a TCDL, I went to a chapter meeting and needed to be reminded by good friend to 'sit down and shut up" Luckily I'm a quick learner. But I know of a few who have made the transition from CS to BS easily. That same friend above made the trasnision very smoothlyfrom CM to ASM. Then again, he was chomping at the bit fro his son to join scouting and IMHO he guided his son to the most boy led unit int he district. The key for those folks is to sit back, get trained and observe how the troop and PLC run for a year or so. Very different from CS where you get recruited as a DL at round up, and given a list of resources and told "Have Fun Mr/s. Den Leader" Now I've met some folks with no scouting experience who make great SMs. Usually they have a very good foundation in outdoor skills via the military, understand the chain of command and patrol concepts, and need some training to be round out their knowledge and understand the BSA. The SM inthe above unit is an exampel of that. Now grant you some prior military can go a little overboard, so it all depends. Also I've met some great parents with no outdoors background who soak up the training and get it. 'Fish seems to be one of those, and I encourage all the training and cup of coffee talks to guide those folks. As for the last group, the Eagles. I'll be the first to say they aint perfect, but they have an excellent foundation. But they do need some trainign and mentoring. I know that as a 19yo ASM, I screwed up royally one summer camp and reverted back to my old ASPL role for about 36 hours when left in charge (the other adult in camp was a new parent). Luckily the SM came to camp to stay, heard and saw what was going on, and we had a friendly cup of coffee. And I am glad i had it. Mentoring is great. So I say Eagles may need some training b/c within the methods of Scouting, there is a variety of ways of doign things. Every troop is different, and what may have worked for you troop may not work for the troop you are in, and vice versa. case in point, One Eagle whose son is a TC int he other den, asked about the formation the pack was going to use for the Christmas parade. And we discussed how his troop would actually march in patrol formations calling cadences. had to tell him that marching is not as emphasised in Scouting as it use to be. So it all depends. I liek the idea of putting new folks in the committee to see how things go and to get them acclimated to the program. I have foudn that it is hard sometimes for adults to let kids do things and screw up. It seems like there is pressure todo things correctly all the time, but sometimes mistakes are the best life lessons. And it is best to learn young!

The reason for trying to mix things up is to prevent stagnation. YOU WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!!! (caps for emphasis) But if you are doing the same activities over and over again it can be dull. I'll give you an example. I worked CSDC this past summer, and one of the complaints I was told by the older guys was that they are bored with the activities as they keep repeating over and over.Grant you there are a few activities that if I did away with or limited, there would be a mutiny, i.e. BB Guns, Archery, and Fishing, but some folks are tired of the genius kits. They are tired of the same clown showing up year after year. So that's why you want some spice and pizzazz sometimes but remember KEEP IT FUN 9 or for CS Keep It Simple Make It Fun.

Oak, MY TEAM won the NFC championship. Go Saints! ( sorry couldn't resist .)

'Fish, You are getting this Scouting thing!!!!! The one of the BIG differences between Cubs and Scouts is that you give training responsibilities to those scouts capable of doing it. And that is sometimes hard for former CS leaders to grasp. The Scouts are the teachers, the adults advise and train the youth leaders who do the teaching. However the way things ran in my old troop was that the older scouts trained the younger scouts. You shouldn't have to have an adult looking over the instructor's shoulder. Either the instructor can do it on his own, or you get another instructor form the youth. And usually your PLC members know who can or cannot do the job of teaching.

Good old fasion model rockets.

Thought so. in ref. to Dean's post, that is the case. there is a BS version, and someone thought that it would be cool to have a CS version. Also there are a few folks out there that prefer a non-locking knife for teaching. Me personally I like the classic. Now one thign that I've noticed changing at the national stores, is that more and more folks have some scouting background. Again this is at the STORES not Charlotte. The guy who replaced me was an Eagle and had extensive background. Also when I went to Raleigh a month or 2 ago. One clerk had her WB beads on and Key knot on, and the other had his Eagle, AOL, and religious award knots on. So maybe the folks on the front lines have expereince and can help out. Also i diodn't realize Wilmington had a satalite (sp) store. I know fayettevill is a sat.

Brk., No problems here. Heck I heard similar comments abotu the price of uniforms and equipment from fellow Supply workers. And to be honest some of the folks working supply have no clue about scouting in the field. Trust me on that one, I had a boss who was assigned JAMBOREE duty,a nd complained about the experience after they returned. I would have volunteered to go, using vacation time, just give me the free food and shelter. Point is that some folks who have no idea are creatign products that won't sell and/or are not very useful excpet to maybe a collector.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Brk. you just sparked a memory that I've tried to repress. There was one teacher who was anti-military, and some of us in the batallion had our grades lowered, and in my case sent to the disciplinarian due to the 3d Marine Recon Bn's insignia on my book bag. I did have to cover up hand drawn insignia, so I camoflagued the entire book bag. teacher wasn't happy,a nd said I should have covered up the artwork with pink paint. NOT.

ok which knife is it? The classic design http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=KNIVES&c4=&lv=3&item=1885 the utility design http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=KNIVES&c4=&lv=3&item=1883 the swiss army http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=KNIVES&c4=&lv=3&item=1865 or lockback http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=KNIVES&c4=&lv=3&item=24076 I do have to respectfully disagree a little with Dean as as I worked for supply at one time. Probably someone thought they could make a little profit on it. Or someone with slim to no Scouting experience came up with the idea, and the BSA is stuck with a supply of them. best example of that would be the AOL leather belt buckles someone came up with. I haven't worked for Supply in 9 years, and they still haven't gotten rid of them. And yes I worked for someone with very slim scouting experience, and it was interesting.

Actually I was a cadet in New Orleans so I never encountered the problems you faced, although I was in the program in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Yeah we were called 'ROTC Nazis" on occasion by other students, but nothing serious. really had no problems within school or the public. However after Gulf War I, things changed a lot. Folks couldn't tell the difference between a JROTC cadet and a returning vet. So marching in Mardi Gras parades the next two years involved a lot of screaming support, underwear with phone numbers on them being thrown at us, and folks offering adult beverages to us. It was insane b/c it was like anyone in a military uniform was a hero, even if they were kids. V/R Eagle92 1st Lt. USMC JROTC (Ret.) (ok that last bit is an inside joke)

I use the word "MY" a lot in ref. to unit's I have been affiliated with/ am with now. Why do I use "MY?" because when you are a leader, you must take some responsibility, whether youth or adult. Now grant you the responsibility varies upon program and position, i.e. as an ASM i was to assist the youth compared to being ASPL when I was responsible for programing under the SPL, compared to today when as a TCDL I am responsible to programing within my den. Also when you are active with something, you are a part of it, so it becomes "MY".... As for callign the scouts, "MY" boys or scouts or cubs, I say it b/c I fell an obligation to them to provide the best possible program. I feel responsibility to them, take pride in their accomplishement, esp. when they grasp something for the first time. However I can understand the concern over possessiveness, and have seen it go to extremes. Heck I was part of the problem as a 19 y.o. ASM when I saw my troop "falling apart" at summer camp, and I reverted back to ASPL mode for about 36 hours. Thankfully a great mentor of mine, the SM at the time, came to stay camp for the remainder of the week, saw what I was doing, and had a little chat with me. To be honest the best cup of coffee I ever had, and one of the guys I look up to as a role model.

Currently, and I stress CURRENTLY, the outdoor Webelos training is reccommended, not mandatory, at this time EXCEPT in those councils that are part of the mandatory training pilot program. I did a google search of this a couple days ago, and the only councils requiring OWL apparently are the beta councils. Also 1 beta council, sorry can't remember which one but it's in the mid west, stated that OWL is mandatroy for Webelos Leaders to be considered trained. SO it looks as if in the very near future the new Outdoor Skills Course, yep a new course covering Webelos, Scout, and Venturer outdoor training will be out very soon I'm told, will be required to be consisdered trained. As to why I looked it up? I was told that I would be needed to take the Webelos camping since I am the only person currently with outdoor training. BALOO and IOLS (ok it was really SMF ).

SMT, I feel your pain, but trust me it could be worse, a lot worse. My troop had a winter trip planned to Shiloh, and because we had a number of scouts with little brothers in CS, somehow it turned into a family campout. And yes alot of the CS parents were the drop and gos. Luckily we were staying at a lcoal church, at least we thought at the beginning. After driving 3.5-4 hours, sorry I don't remember exactly how long but it was a long one, we start hearing complaints from the some of the parent about it being to cold and wet to do the hikes the next day. Now we had driven a long ways, the scouts WERE prepared for the bad weather, the PLC said it's a go, BUT the parents said no. So the next day we didn't do the hikes we plannded and were prepared to do. Needless top say there were a lot of ticked of scouts. To make matters worse, the cubs left the faucet on on the bathtroom upstairs, and you guessed it, water started spilling over onto the floor we were one. Troop didn't have another family camp out until about 6 years later. That one did go off well however, but it was a 45-60 minute drive one way. Good luck EDITED: man I must have slept through half the trip there and back. I just did a mapquest search for the route, and it was a 7 hour drive one way! 14 hours spent on the road for nothing! I'm getting angry again thinking about the trip time (This message has been edited by eagle92)

One position is enough. Den Chief and another troop position is pushing it IMHO (this form someone who was both a DC and PL or ASPL during the same period)but doable. BUT 2 or more troop level positions?!?! No way this is not usual and sounds liek the adutls may be doign more than they should.

Well I talked to the pack folks last not and they think the patches are UGLY, stressing the UGLY. Also some folks are a little peeved that teh Webelos who crossed over in Nov. missed out while their buddies still in the pack will get the annivserary AOLs (yep they think it's ugly but folks willg et them b/c they will be collector's items.) E92

Ceremony books have a pronunciation guide.

Brklyn, You just reminded me of a similar situation that happened at a JROTC exercise back in the day. Had one guy, the battallion CO, slice his finger with his knife. Funny thing is the SMI said no one but cadet officers could use knifes on the trip, so most of the folks had to turn in their knives, EXCEPT the guy who sliced his finger since he was an officer. Luckily I wasn't there at the time, I was doing a performance with the drill team, and when I showed up with my personal bayonet attached to my personal duece gear, I got a few looks, but no one told me about the no knives rule and why until the ride home. And yes the bayonet was clearly visible and used for making fuzz sticks and firebuilding.

yep ditto the 3 hour trip for me too. PLUS it is during the Jambo contingents visits to DC for me. SOOOOOOOO is it worth the 3 horu trip AND long lines from Jambo folks? What about for a pack of approx. 90 CS and their parents, as the pack is trying to plan a DC trip as it is?

I'ld go with the boys in a separate tent. AND a backyard tryout is awesome as boys LOVE camping! Well at least my two keep buggin me when they can go campign again.

Oak, yep that should be a 10yr and a 7 yr. stars on Carolina blue. Too bad they don't have Saints Black and Gold backings. GO SAINTS!

bear dad and other CS leaders, If you are looking for places to camp, conact your local Order of the Arrow chapter or lodge for a Where To Go Camping Book. It will have some great info for you. E92

'Fish (or as a summer camp friend would spell it: GHOTI) You are correct in that the Vet bar celebrates how old the UNIT is. And everyone can wear it; Youth and adult. Some do, others don't. What's nice is that national does make all in one numbers that can include the vet bar. good news is that it's cheaper to buy the all in ones than individual numbers. bad news is that you got to buy them in bulk. What folks wear to show TENURE in scouting are the Service Stars with a colored backing. the color backing shows what program you were in (orange for Tigers, which has been discontinued, yellow for Cubs, which now includes Tigers, green for Scouts, brown for Varsity, red for Sea Scouts/Explorers/venturing, and Carolina Blue for Adults) So being the old fogey I am, I could a 3yr. star on a yellow backing, a 7 yr. star on a green backing, a 1yr. star on a red backing, and a 17 yr. star on a Carolina blue backing. HOWEVER, adults do have the option of combining their total tenure, and wearing the number of stars totaling that number. SO i could wear a 20yr. star and a 7yr. stars on Carolina blue backgrounds.