Eagle92

My perspective is from one who has not had to deal with national appeals, except for the scout who had to appeal for his EBOR due to not being able to have the EBOR before he turned 18 and leaving for boot camp. I don't know how long that appeal took, but I do know the guy had favorable letters endorsing his appeal to have his EBOR, and when I saw him a few years later, he was granted his EBOR and was an Eagle. I say we give this situation the benefit of the doubt at this time. Yes there are a lot of questions, I even have them, but let's have a little patience.

BP, I must sadly disagree with your assessment that it has been "enhanced." As a former YMCA Lifeguard instructor, both when the' hand to hand combat" was taught and when they removed that content, as well as a former BSA Lifeguard, I can tell you that the content has been downgraded. Yes the old BSA Lifeguard program also focused on lakes and boating, unlike YMCA and ARC, there was still an element of pool/swimming area safety liek the other two. FURTHER since Swimming, Lifesaving, First Aid, Rowing, and Canoeing MBs were prerequisites for the BSA Lifeguard course at one time, one could say that the BSA course was more intense, event with the Minimum 40 hours due to the prerequisites. BSA Lifeguard was also a "professional" certification like ARC and YMCA, just not widely known outside of BSA. The college I worked at mostly had ARC lifeguards, but you had myself and one other who held BSA Lifeguards working year round. As I stated previously, and I stand by this, I know of folks who have FAILED the BSA Lifeguard program for minor technicalities, grant you it usually related to boating, who had better lifeguarding KSAs than folks I helped to "certify" as YMCA 'guards (don't get me started on that one!). Because Scouting does so much on the water, I still think that it is a mistake to remove the boating portions from BSA Lifeguard. Fortunately they offer training, but for some of us old fogeys with limited time and $ to get these certifications, it's not feasible.

Nothing says you can't wear them, and if you lookin the insignia guide, they show a scouter wearing 5 knots, his Eagle, and religious award. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10K.aspx

Beav, AMEN!

Yep they watered-down BSA Lifeguard, making it essentially Red Cross or YMCA for scouts and pools. All boating activities and lake activities require the newer courses. I personally think this is a mistake. BSA Lifeguard from 1993 until last year WAS the toughest lifeguard course out of YMCA and ARC. heck i taught YMCA Lifeguarding, and i'd rather have a few folks who FAILED BSA Lifeguard watch over me and my kids rather than the YMCA guards i was told to pass. Yes it's important to go with equipment, but if things hit the fan, you need to be prepared to handle that rescue without equipment.

Well when I got my Eagle, I was wearing 3 medals. Mom pinned on the Eagle medal, #4, over the religious knot.

WHO DAT!

ML, Thanks for the post. It was thoughtful and shows that Scouting IS still relevant.

You could fit all four medals in a single row?!?! LOL Yep Emb is 100% right on this one. 1 row of 5 medals, I cold only fit 3 of the 4 you mentioned neatly.

Emb, My memory may be fading with old age, but I thought for sure that a CC emblem was created during the same 6 month period as the LV patch, circa 1994-1995. Grant you I wasn't in supply yet, but I thought for sure my CC had one. I also know that when they orders to discard the patches came out, there was some dumpster diving by folks to get those patches. i also know that the LC at the time bought or Lodge 6 of them b/c they word was they were being discontinued, and the successor LC also wore the then discontinued patch.

Ok I posted this in the NEW DEFINITION OF ACTIVE thread, but since someone mentioned the new policy here, i think it deserves to be posted here. What I find interesting is that the new definition of "ACTIVE" Is different than the one from the BSA's July 2007 edition of the RULES and REGULATIONS book, page 6, found here http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919606/Rules-and-Regulations-of-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America Active Clause 1 An active member is one who, with the approval of parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly, fullfills a member's obligations to the unit, subscribes to the Scout Oath or code specific to his or her program; and participates in a program based upon a member's age as promulgated form time to time by the Boy Scouts of America. What I find interesting is that the RULES AND REGULATIONS do allow the unit to downgrade a member from active to "ASSOCIATE" a term that I've only seen once, the 3rd. ed. SM HB. Again page 6 of the Rules and Regulations Associate Clause 2. Any youth member who, in the judgment of the unit leader and unit committee, is unable top carry out the requirements of active membership may be carried on the unit records as an associate, provided the individual attends at least one meeting of the unit within a year and in all other aspects is guided by the obligations of an active member. So is it me, or is there a major disconnect between the the Advancemnt Policies and Procedures, and the BSA's Rules and Regulations, which supersede everything except the by-laws?

What I find interesting is that the new definition of "ACTIVE" Is different than the one from the BSA's July 2007 edition of the RULES and REGULATIONS book, page 6, found here http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919606/Rules-and-Regulations-of-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America Active Clause 1 An active member is one who, with the approval of parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly, fullfills a member's obligations to the unit, subscribes to the Scout Oath or code specific to his or her program; and participates in a program based upon a member's age as promulgated form time to time by the Boy Scouts of America. What I find intersting is that the RULES AND REGULATIONS do allow the unit to downgrade a member from active to "ASSOCIATE" a term that I've only seen once, the 3rd. ed. SM HB. Again page 6 of teh Rules and Regulations Associate Clause 2. Any youth member who, in the judgement of the unit leader and unit committee, is unable top carry out the requirements of active membership may be carried on the unit records as an associate, provided the individual attends at least one meeting of the unit within a year and in all other aspects is guided by the obligations of an active member. So is it me, or is there a major disconnect between the the Advancemnt Policies and Procedures, and the BSA's Rules and Regulations, which supercede everything except the by-laws?

Chief, Congrats on the position. here's the skinny. YES you are a member of the district committee. HOWEVER unless you are wearing a shirt with the District Committee emblem ONLY, or if you are fortunate enough to find one but crazy enough to wear it the old Chapter Chief POR they came out with and discontinued in 1994-95, then yes silver loops are appropriate. HOWEVER if you are wearing your regular unit shirt with numbers, then you need to wear the green or older red loops. Now I do know a few folks who wear reproduction Chapter Chief or Lodge Chief patches. One wears his LC patch in lieu of the Council Executive Board patch on that shirt, while the other wears his CC patch as a temp patch when wearing his District Committee shirt.

Once, You forgot the poly-wool uniform pants that aren't convertible. LOL To be honest I say try em on before buying as you can easily go one to two sizes UP. I'm normally a XL in the waist, but wear the size L "new old pants" aka SwitchBacks with the zippers, and they are loose on me still.

Yep very few folks wear them, mostly the pros. However I've seen 2 volunteers wear them, council pres and VP of Finance. And I have a photo of the National Venturing president in one when delivering the report to the President.

See that's the point, when the heck is someone in a coat and tie doing OA related work? Yep the current edition does have some wording edited out, but they left wording in reference to a uniform that is only worn on formal occasion still in the passage. that's part of the problem. You go from only at OA fuctions, to ANY scouting function, to function representing the OA,including when the dressuni is on.

Norules, left out the part about the professional dress.

Bryan, I see this rule violated all the time with CS and their water guns. Heck my son has an old recuriting poster with Cubs shooting each other with water guns. Wish national would get their act together on this one. When the ban on lazertag was briefly lifted, it was one of the most popular activities for several chapters I knew of.

Well i think part of the reason why lodges used different color borders was so that 10 you could identify who was what prior to the rule change in the late 70s. early 80s on sash wear ( now you can wear it at special non-OA events) and 2) incentive to encourage folks to stick around in the OA. Grant you I liked the different borders as that was tradition in my home lodge and was tradition in my current lodge until national abolished the policy. LOTS of ticked off Arrowmen and I knwo of one or two lodges that are still issuing separate flaps (bought a set in December at the shop). BUT I do know a few folks who didn't fully understand the purposes behind the flaps *( my lodge has the reasons in their history) and viewed the flaps as status emblems. SOOOOO I placed a new flap on my new uniform and am slowly phasing out the old flaps as I earn the new ones ( my lodge has restrictions on them; 7 hours of service as a member = the ability to buy 1 flap). And since I'm not as active with the OA as I was prior to becoming a TCDL, it will take a while. At least I got my lodge's "Pirate flap" on my "vintage" Sea Scout uniform made when Ships could create their their own

If memory serves, a "Division Commissioner' was the title for the head commissionaire of EXPLORING in a council before they switched over to SERVICE TEAM for exploring commissioners. But don't quote me on that

A THIRD option would be to wear the professional dress uniform of blue blazer, white shirt, grey slacks, uniform dress tie and BSA dress emblem. If youare in good with your DE, I'm sure he'll let you borrow it as I can count on one hadn how many times I wore it in 2 years. And I alwasy had folks asking to borrow items, tie here, badge there.

I am also in agreement to bring it back. I would further add that the policy of youth wearing the First Class Pin on the Expedition and Campaign hats, be replaced with them being allowed to wear their RANK pin on the hat as was done in the past FURTHER, all the rank pins need to be the same size. Sorry whoever created that rule didn't realize the First Class Pin IS a restricted item and needs an advancement report in order to get one. Also don't think a Tenderfoot should be wearing a First Class pin, or a Life Scout wearing one either.

Yep national changed the policy on the OA sash sometime in the late 70s or early 80s. Not only can you wear for Scout Sunday, COHs, Blue and Golds, etc. it can also be worn with the professional dress uniform of blue blazer, white shirt, grey slacks and dress tie. And you still have some folks who go by the old ways. As for me I'm wearing mine tomorrow with my TCDL uniform, and I'm thinking I will be seeing a few Venturers and advisers with them on as well. Esp. since their is no Venturing MB sash that an 15 yo Venturer can wear with his uniform.

89 is right about some volunteers enjoying 'chewing up and spitting out" DEs. Heck one I know a DE who was actually threatened at a RT, only to state that he hadn't been beaten up in a while and he would be willing to give anyone a chance to after the meeting. just not in those words. Gotta love retired Marines, especially the insane recon ones "only someone crazy would jump out of a perfectly good aitrplane").

Anotehr great way to meet girls is cheerleading, just don't date your cheerleading partner