Eagle92

Working on getting the RSO certified folks now. For whatever reason, in the past my district would never find out about them in time to have people take them. Always found out a day or two in advance. Luckily teh NCS instructor who does the cert will do the class on summer camp staff training days, so we were able to get someone certified in time for day camp. problem is, we lost him to summer camp staff this summer

Thanks for the info. My goal, stressing goal, is to have 4 adults, 2 on BBs and 2 on Archery, and 2 Scouts/Venturers in each area assisting. With the DL and the DC, i am hoping to have 3 adults and 3 youth per 10 folks on the line.

Background, I am scheduled to be the Day Camp Program Director and will be going through NCS next week, so I could get my answer then. BUT tomorrow nite is the District banquet, and I am recruiting for Day Camp Staff, so here it goes. What is the ratio of certified adults, both Archery and BB Guns to shooters? I ask b/c I want to figure out how many adults I need for both areas in order to shoot 10 at a time. Last year we had 1:2 at archery( with only one adult) and 1:3 at BB Guns ( again only 1 adult) So not many folks could fire at a time. Luckily our camp was small, only 40 cubs. This year I am hoping to double the number, and the DE is estimating 100 since I already began promoting CSDC. So my goal is to have 10 people on the line at a time. I looked in the 2009 CS Shooting Sports book some one gave me, and I can't find iot for the life of me. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Also any help programming wise would be greatly appreciated, again (I asked already once and got some great advice, but please keep it coming). I am totally revamping the program from scratch and have approx $27/cub to use. Eagle92 Program Freak

WHOA!

Trainer, BP is correct in that once upon a time, Webelos could camp with a troop at camporee. I did just that back in the day. Also it was an eye opener and great recruiting tool. Out of the 3 Webelos dens in my pack, mine had the Den Chief, who in turn invited us to join his troop at camporee. Guess how many dens had Cubs join a troop...one. As an aside, the troop chartered with my pack wouldn't provide DCs, nor did they do anything with the pack. DC was from a nearby troop, and guess which troop we joined... you guessed it the troop NOT chartered with the pack. Moral of the story is to provide DCs and get involved with your feeder pack. Back on topic. Yep it is against the guidelines to have Cubs at a camporee. And I second BP's sentiments; it is a waste of a great recuriting opportunity, and I hope that policy changes. I am glad that my council is holding a "regional jamboree and CS family campout" to celebrate the 100th anniversary with all programs invited to attend and with their own areas and programing, with minor overlap, specifically the aquatics.

Click has hit the nail on the head. The "ideal" job to do for adults in units is to provide transportation, and sit around the ADULT campsite enjoying themselves. LITTLE TO NO CONTACT WITH YOUTH ( caps for emphasis.)

Well they have District, Council, Area, Regional, and National level youth Venturing POR patches, why not the OA, esp since it's been around since 1915? All the arguments against OA POR patches should also apply to the Venturing POR patches. My $.02 worth. But I may be bias in that I was an OA CA and know how much work the job of CC and LC entails. Also one other thing came to mind. Over 18 is an adult leader in the Boy Scouts, hence 18-21 yo Arrowmen, while YOUTH in the OA are SCOUTERS in units. If over 21 y.o. SCOUTERS can have PORs related to the OA, why not the 18-21 y.o.s?

le V, Got to play Devil's Advocate, council camps and services are expensive, so fund raising IS important. BUT you are right that some are more focused on fundraising than outdoors, or can I say rather PROGRAM. Glad that my SE, while paying a good bit of attentions to fundraising, is a "program freak" who is pushing for more outdoor activities at all levels, pushing to improve the council's camps, challenges the OA to not only do more and better camp promos BUT also raise more money for camperships since more Scouts will need them, AND puts his money where his mouth is by actually WORKING with volunteers to improve the council's camps ( not only did Hell freeze over the past few weeks b/c the SAINTS won the Superbowl, BUT I found my pic of an SE working at an Ordeal!) OK that said how can we focus on getting leaders the outdoor skills? #1 training. I've found that generally if they are not prior military or Scouts, then they don't have the outdoor skills. So training is key #1A Mentoring. Having Older, experienced leaders menot the new ones is great. Not only in outdoor skills but other areas as well. #2 GET THEM OUTSIDE, GET THEM OUTSIDE, GET THEM OUTSIDE! ( CAPS FOR EMPHASIS) Councils need to provide outdoor programing, especially at the CS level, so that the CS and paretn get use to the outdoors and build up their skills.

Jersey, BALOO will continue to be a separate course from what I've read at several places. Onlythe Webelos, SM, and Adviser outdoor courses will be merged.

Looking on the SCOUTSTUFF.ORG website and it looks like POLISH has been discontinued. I would call 504-887-3000, which is the SE Louisiana Scout Shop (they are great folks) and see if they may have one in their inventory or if tyhey can find one at another store. SOMETIMES, not always though, a national scout shop may have a discontinued item in their stock. If not they will usually call around to other stores for help.

Lisa, IG doesn't specify, but the BSA literature states that only award carried over from CS is AOL. Religious award is something given by the religious organization, and the BSA recognizes with a knot, so that isn't a CS award per se. The closest IG rule I can think of is the "Uncluttered rule"

CPA, Usually what will happen on HA trips is that in addition to the trip component, there will be other activities as well. For example, When I did my 64 mile canoe trip in Canada, we stopped in Washington DC for sightseeing and to visit the Jamboree. We then went on the 64 mile trip in the Canadian Wilderness, then did sightseeing in Ottawa, and Montreal. So trips will vary. Weekend trips are great for learning for new scouts and teaching skills by the older scouts. Also that is where the scouts show their independence and maturity, away from the adults. I like the 100 yards rule, i.e. each patrol is 100 yards or more away form each other AND adults, but sometimes that is not allowed in parks. The HA trips usually test those skills and have lots of prep trips involved. I know we had about 3 or 4 canoe trips prior to Canada to make sure everyone knew what they were doing, could handle emergencies, and decide who would buddy up with whom.

The Key is FUN, FUN, FUN! Program related to advancement is good, BUT what other opportunities are there, i.e. climbing, rowing, nature, etc. Camp is not suppose to be 100% advancement, but 100% FUN with some advancement thrown in From the Program Freak who is working on CSDC program as I type.

Good question. Yep we are suppose to do our good deed for the day, refusing to be compensated for our services. After all that Lone Scout in London sure did the BSA a very good deed by refusing a tip. On the other hand, Scouts are suppose to be self supporting, earning the money to pay their own way. Trying to teach that to Oldest with him buying his own uniform and book(s). Also what needs to be considered was what expenses were involved? Was food involved? How about the usage of the camp properties, i.e. electricity, water, gas, etc.

Welcome to the forums! As far as Webelos dens go, I haven't been there yet as a WDL, but I seen all sorts of things done. I see packs that follow a full 2 years with graduations done in May of the 5th grade. Mostly I see graduations done February/March of the 5th grade year. In one case I saw the bulk of the 5th grade Webelos, basically all those who had been together since at least 4th grade if not earlier, crossover in NOV so that they could be Scouts in DEC. Found out that DEC is the earliest SCOUTNET will allow Webelos to Crossover who are not 11. Since my pack runs a year round program with great participation at CSDC and Res Camp, our Cubs do ALOT! Now I know of a few instances where a Webelos crossed over on his own. Those 3-4 cases were those Webelos who had late birthdays and the school system would not register with others born in the same year. SO as soon as they turned 11, they crossed over. All had earned the AOL by that point. My middle child will probably fall into that category.

If memory serves, the BSA campaign hats are Stetsons, which explains part of the price, although not advertised. Stetson also made a series of hats a few years back that are approved for uniform wear. As for me both of mine were issued to me by my council, one was upon completing Brownsea 22, the other was for staffing the 1st JLT course in 6 years, and hence no youth staff with smokey bears. they are government surplus. However when I was at BP House in London, they sold the green SM plumes, and plain leather hatbands. Got two of each, and had the bands branded at the cmaps I worked at over there. One plume was given away to a good freind, to be replaced by the Centenary Plume that came out in 2007. PLUMES ARE AWESOME! ( yes I'm shouting b/c they are! LOL)

Diogenes, I hate to say it, but according to the IG found here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx As part of the First Class Emphasis, the large standard metal pin, No. �00017, has been reinstated as an option to the cloth First Class rank badge. The large pin also may be worn only by boys on the front of the campaign hat, No. �501, and the expedition hat, No. �637. [emph. added} Adults may wear the adult universal hat pin, No. �50150, on the campaign hat and the expedition hat. So actually ANY YOUTH can wear the FCP, irregardless of the fact that #1 it IS advancement and is restricted, and #2 other rank pins, save Tenderfoot and Eagle, are available. me personally I say make ALL the rank pins the same size and authorized for youth to wear. But I'm old school. GREAT JOB ON THE SMOKEY BEAR CULTURE! ( yep i'm screamin at ya now in "attaboy' fashion. )

YES! (caps for emphasis, ok maybe a little shouting ) Actually I was asked to be an Advancement Policeman,. i.e. sit on the district EBOR, but had to turn it down due to other commitments: CSDC, council CS committee, OA, and oh yeah my TC den. I'd rather keep my UP badge anyway!(This message has been edited by eagle92)

BRKLN, Having worked supply, I can tell you that unless the box is unopened from Charlotte, hats will get put in the wrong box on occassion. Esp. if the hat is on display and the customer wanted a box. Most folks don't ask for, or throw away the boxes.

One of my JROTC instructors in HS was a DI at Parris Island.Somehow or another the topic of smokey bears came up and waterproofing them. He suggested the polyurathane approach saying the water beads off it. He wouldn't recommend polyurathaning combat utilities though; while the water beads off you, the clothes are a little stiff.

Jersey, Have your district training staff look at the fine print in the current IOLS book. In there somewhere is the notation that a leader essentially 'test out" of IOLS if they can demonstarte the skills. Sorry can't quote chapter and verse any time soon as my IOLS is in storage. But there was a discussion on this topic on MYSCOUTING.ORG. Also I say "current" b/c I was told that a new IOLS course combining Webelos Leader training, and possibly adding stuff for Venturing leaders, as crews with an outdoor program now need an adviser IOLS trained, is headed our way in the future.

The yellow blouses are still available, just not promoted as much. My wife hates both the yellow and blue CS female leader uniform and Centennial uniform. So I had to get her a 1950s leader's dress, with all the uniform parts save the tab, instead. To bad she can't wear her Venturing uniform.

MDS, Sorry just noticed you are new and forgot to say WELCOME TO THE FORUMS (and yes I am screaming at you ) That said, a few commentsa about my post. By "working with him" I meant that there are classes, both at outside agencies like the YMCA and ARC, as well as summer camp that provide swimming lessons. Also usually every district has at least one person with the KSAs to teach swimming and would be willing to work with him year round. I know I do stuff throughout the year locally in my area. As for my "irrational fears" comment. sometimes I poke fun at myself, while trying to show a point. Yes I was terrified of water, but I was able to overcome it, and I eventually became a lifeguard instructor among other things.

Welcome to the darkside.

Ok I keep rereading this guy's post and crack up every time. Some aren't that funny, but most are. Since not many folks go to MYSCOUTING, I thought I'd share them here as I think they are funny. #1 If you spend 45 minutes with a ruler, 2 compasses, and a pencil to get your CSP "just right," you might be a uniform polceman. #2 If you start placing orders for new items before your local distributor even hears of them, you might be a member of the UP. #3 If the local distributor is askign you where patches go onthe uniform, you might be a member of the UP. #4 If you go to the local quilting shop to get teh exact match of thread for a patch, you might be a member of the UP. #5 If you carry a copy of the insignia guide in you breifcase, you might be a member of the UP. #6 If you had a uniforming discussion on MYSCOUTING.ORG that lasted over 5 pages in two different groups, you might be a member of the UP. #7 If you've bookmarked the on line Insignia Guide on your computer, you might be a member of the UP. #8 If you refuse to take your uniform and patches to a tailor b/c they place the patches a few millimeters off, you might be a member of the UP. #9 If you ever told a scout shop manager that they were wearing something incorrectly and showed the the IG, you might be a member of the UP. #10 If you have a conversation on the disadvantages of velcro compared to owning multiple uniforms, you might be a member of the UP. 11) If your wife laughs at you b/c your about to cut off a CSP and resew it b/c it is 3 mm off, you might be a member of the UP. 12) If you own more uniforms than you do business suits, you might be a member of the UP. 13) If you think a scout and/or leader looks naked without a neckerchief, you might be a member of the UP. 14) if you think the Campaign hat, aka Smokey Bear, is the best hat ever made wnad should be the only Scouting hat allowed, you might be a member of the UP. 15) If you still carry a walking stick with air to ground signals and a scale burned into it, and 50' of parachute cord wrapped around it, you might be a member of the UP. 16) If you have a scouting uniform for every area, i.e. CS, BS Venturing, distictt, council , and Sea SCouting, you might be a member of the UP. 17) if you lament hte fatc that the Centennial Uniform did away with knee socks, you might be a member of the UP. 18)If people think BP was your SM, and GBB was your PL, you might be a member of the UP. 19)If you ever worked at a Scout Shop during Round Up season, especially on a Saturday, and outfitted 100+ new Cubs, you might be a member of the UP. 20) If you email National Supply pointing out an error inthe 2009 Uniform Guide, you might be a member of the UP. 21) If your pack asks you to create a uniforming flyer to gicve to new Cubs, you might be a member of the UP. 22) If you inform the local council that their 5 month old uniform flyers are now out of date, you might be a member of the UP. 24)in preparing for a weekend camping trip, you pack a sewing kit that has thread that matches most BSA bordered patches, just in case, you might be a member of the UP Stick out tongue 26) If you spend you work bonus on centennial swank, i.e. neckerchief that actually fits, temp patches,slide, hiking staff madallion, etc, you might be a member of the UP. 27) If you get some unexpected freetime andyou hed to the local distributor, to see if you missed anythink fro the day before trip, you might me a member of the UP. 28) If while you are spending your free time at the local distributorship, you start helping out cub scouts get their "upgrades," i.e. bear neckerchief, slide, hat, book,, then you might me a UP. #30) If you celebrated National Supply's decision to produce the larger neckerchiefs by opening a can of diet cola (wish it was root beer), then you might be a member of the UP. 32) If after a RU you go to your local grocery and people are comign up to you to talk about their Scouting experiences, and how they are glad to see Scouting still exist, you might be a member of the UP. #33 If you are looking at photos of Scouts on Facebook and Boy's Life website and cringe at the lackof uniforming, yo might be a UP #34 If you start a threat to improve unfiorming nationwide, you might be a UP. #37 If you got a bunchof your Tiger Cubs in full uniform, and your pack is doesn't have a "uniform culture," you might be a member of the UP. #38 You might be the chief of the uniform police if you tell the scout executive that he is wearing a square knot backward. 30) If your inlaws know your about you love of kneesocks and give you 12 pairs for Christmas, you may be a UP. 40(?) If your wife jokingly says she's going to cremate you, stuff your ashes in knee socks, and bury it at the Scout camp(s), you might be a member of the UP. 41(?) If you take your wife up on the offer above, you might be a UP.