Eagle92

Nah I don't have a stuck on Scouting accellerator. Ok gotta get back to getting ready form my teleconference on the CS family Campout next month, prepping to CSDC camp promos tomorrow at the district PWD, finish my car for the PWD's leader's competition at the end, and prep for my TC den meeting on Monday.

Here is my opinion of the "Foudation of Scouting" 1) The Scout Oath, Law, Slogan, and Motto. These are the basis for everything else, and have been around 100 years now. If you can't live up to these four things, you have problems with everythign else. I would add the Outdoor Code, but it is newer than the others 2) Patrol method. BP recognized that youth formed natural "gangs" adn wanted tp do exciting and adventurous things with their friends. BP created it, and Green Bar Bill, with both BP's and Lady BP's blessing, perfected it. Yes BP took 20 kids, his nephew, and himself to BROWNSEA ISLAND to test his ideas on scouting and the patrol method, and it did work, but GBB created a troop for how many years, to perfect the patrol method? 3) Outdoors. Kids want challenges and excitement. My opinion is that tghe reasons kids get so involved in video games is because they are not being challenged physically, mentally, and morally in their "real world" lives, and go to the "fantasy world' of video games to get that excitement. You provide an active, challenging outdoo program, and they will come. 4)Advancement. The purpose ogf adavncement is to give folks a #1 a chance to acquire new skills and try new things #2 challenge them to grow physicaly, mentally, and morally, and #3 give them a sense of acommplishmwent via recognition for their hard work. 5) Uniforms. I know they are not popular with some folks, both youth and adult. I also know that tehre is alot of discussion on amng adults with all the "swank" on the uniform as BP would say. But the uniform was created to A)give a sense of belonging to the scouts, B) unify all scouts in a common and recognizable image and C) provide an avenue to allow Scouts and leaders a chance to show their accomplishments.

And let's not forget that when national intro'd the centennial uniform, sans insignia guide, there was an accompnaied brochure that stated that the ODL and Centenial uniform items are interchangable. grant you it didn't specify what items, so I do see some BS folks with red and whites on their sleeve. What I find so funny is that they wanted to take the red out of the uniform, but left BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA in red, not green.

Congrats on completing WB. You must have a new DE who doesn't know athat there sia usppose to be a ceremony for receiving your WB items.

Mike, District's can't change advancement policy. ALSO SCOUTNET will not allow someone to be registered as a scout until A) in 5th grade, it's Dec 1st at the earliest, and they earned the AOL B)They are 10.5yo, and earned AOL irregardless of grade ( so a 10.5yo 4th grader in may can earnit and cross over) C)They are 11, irregardless of age.

GOOD QUESTION and those links will provide answers. Heck I think I need to send them to my pack leadership as we started a FB page. Fortunately for us, it is set by invitation only. Only non-Pack members that are allowed in the group are the CO's SM, CO's CA, DE, SE and UC (although the UC is also a member of the CO).

base, I hear ya about the baubles. i try to use mine as conversation starters and motivators. My tigers love asking questions about the stuff on my uiform. Right now I do have 2 "interesting items' that I am wearing for the next 5 or so months. Since I am the CSDC PD with a Space theme, I'm wearing a YODA figurine as temp insignia, and my old summer camp domino, which is a staff recognition, that I will be using for CSDC staff that work the entire week. the Yoda is to promote camp, the domino is to recruit staff.

Back in the day, Webelos was only a year, and the AOL took a 1 year to earn ( ok really 9 months as most packs did nothing over the summer in my neck of the woods). So if you have an active bunch, and program over the summer, It's possible for the Cubs to get their AOL as early as December 1. Yep as soon as they become Webelos they start working on those requirements for AOL. I've seen 4th graders complete and receive the AOL in May, but it's usually b/c of the 10 YO requirement. My middle son will probably be joining a troop on May 30th of his 4th grade year b/c of his Nov. Birthday. As for the AOL patch, that is true in most cases it's never worn on the CS uniform, either the blue uni option or centennial option. HOWEVER I knew of one pack that awarded the AOL Rank PINS, and those were pinned onto the uniform as part of the ceremony. It's one of the few pics I have of CS wearing the AOL.

Codge, To paraphrase Lord Vader: Don't underestimate the power of a Scout While some or even all might not have the skill level that you do, they can still do alot of the work, with you providing technical support and teaching. Also if one of the scouts has WSMB already, I would definitely have him involved in the teaching process, with you giving him advice and guidance. Trust me Scout can DO A LOT OF THINGS that we assume they cannot do. Sorry about the vent, tried to make it as positive as possible, but it's a pet peeve of mine when folks underestimate the abilities of scouts. Trying to make it a district event is a great idea. Also in a few years when oldest becomes scout, can I see if my troop can come up and play

Codger, Sorry to hear about that, seams like a great time was planned. Heck my old troop used a wildernes survival type campout as a Webelos overniter back in the day, with considerable success. A few comments though. #1 the SPL and PLC should have done more prep work on it. They should have written the letters, secure permission, come up with lesson plans, etc. Give them a little ownership and responsibility and they will usually want to complete THEIR campout. #2 in reference to camporees. Some do require a prep trip. No prep trip, you lose points in the competition. #3 A better outlet for you may be as a Merit Badge Councilor. That way as the Scouts come to you to work on the MBs, you can uswe your resources to help them.

best place to look for the PATROL METHOD is an old copy of the 3rd ed. Scoutmaster's handbook, vols 1 and 2 (yep 2 books, but WELL worth it.

look atteh requirements for the awards. Most of the training awards state that tenure for one award cannot, again CANNOT, be used for another award. There are a few exceptions to that rule. So if you are duel enrolled in multiple units, remember you cannot hold multiple roles in the same unit level except for an IH-COR-CC combination, you cannot use the same time period to count towards two different awards. UNLESS the requirements state that, and to my knowledge that is only the SM Key allows for use of Scouters' Training Award time towards the SM Key.

You may be that the idea of once you got AOL you are done affecting the mentality of once you get Eagle you are done. Problem is that they way the CS program is structured, the AOL is suppose to prepare you for the next step: joining Boy Scouts. That's why you visit a troop, go on a troop activity, learn the Scout Oath and Law, etc. Again the Webelos program in my pack is designed to prep them for BS and to get them intot he troop as soon as they are ready as shown by earning the AOL. Sometimes it's a group that crosses over, otehr times it's individuals. the Key that the troop found is get them involved with the troop ASAP so that they and the parents are comfortable sendign the Scotu to summer camp their first year. get them to summer camp, and they tend to stay a long time.

Is this my old ship youa re talkign about? Training is a key. The leaders need to understand the program, specifically that the youth run the program. Then the youth have to be empowered to actually run the program with minimal interference from the adults. I say minimal b/c there are some additional safety issue on the open water. Then I would let the youth take over, constantly reminding them that they need to create a program. if they want to sail and have fun, by all means let them. BUT they have to plan and organize. There's an old patch I picked up in the UK that I would need to be modified over here inteh States. The patch shows a SM in uniform with hands in pockets, shrugging, and saying "Don't ask me, I'm only a leader."

Agreed. Heck one part of the binder looks as if it came straight out of the BS Summer camp NCS book, including info on chaplains and the International Camp Staff program. But as I learned, there IS a big difference between CS and BS camp.

Yep my pack also does the AOL and Crossover ceremony combined. BUT we also do both ceremonies as soon as the Cub earns the AOL and can join the troop. We try to use the OA all the time, buit on one or two occasions the OA was able to make it, so I would do the ceremony in my dance clothes. Helps now that I'm registered in the pack adn attend the meetings. EDITED: the reason most packs do a combined AOL and Crossover ceremony is that the AOL is the highest award in CS, and prepares you for the BS. Thus once you get the AOL, you are doen with the CS program, and are ready to move on to the REAL Fun (This message has been edited by eagle92)

2cub, I read the CSDC book and yep p.31 does indeed state what you said. BUT the National Standards do not state a rank requirement, only an age requirement, AND give an EXCEPTION for a DC who is working with his regular den at CSDC. Guess they had to make that exeption for those 12 and 13yo DC workignon the DCSA. Also the same standard states that other under 14 yos must be under the supervision of their parent or unit leader. Luckily the National Standards trump the guide.

Base, true you can only register for one contact position per unit, except the IH, COR, and CC (a person can hold two or all three of those positions). The challenge is when a person is multiple registered with two units, say a pack and a crew or a crew and a troop, or are registered with a unit and the district. As I said I can understand wanting to use the same length of time for say for one unit award, i.e. Cub Scouter Award and another unti award, say STA, ot a unit award and a district award, say the District Committee Key. BUT not only do the sheets themselves say you cannot double count tenure, except for SMK and STA ( and whoever said the AK and AATA AS WELL AS Skipper's Key and Sea Scouter training award is right theose requirement sSHOULD mirror the STA and SMK but another publication that I cnanot place also states that Could it be theDistrict Training pamphlet?

Interesting about hte Life or Eagle requirement. I don't remember seeing that int he standards or book, but it was one fast paced weekend. And I can tell you that last year one of our aids was 14, but only 2nd Class if memory serves. I still remember the days when all you need to be was a Scout to work camp. I was 11 y.o. and Tenderfoot workign CSDC. Nowadays DOL will come after the CD and PD for that. EDITED: Find it funny that a brand new 14 yo Venturer with no previous scouting expereicne is OK to work CSDC, but a 14yo First Class or Star Scout with 3 years experience is not.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

MN, If memory serves, the literature will say that Webelos is an 18-24 month long program. That's because there is a lot of local variation to the program. Some units, and from what I've seen usually the older units with a very long history, still do the AOL and Crossover in May. This stemsf from back inthe day when CS was a 3 year program, mostkly followed the school year, and it took 9 months to earn the AOL. It is a tradition to have that doen in May and no one is going to ruing a 50+year tradition. Some units opt for the BnG to award the AOL and Crossover to Scouts. Again if memory servies this stems from the literature when Webelos was expanded into a 2 year program and the recommendation was for it to occur at BnG. Again this is if my memory is correct, especially since I was onteh BS side of this when this occured. I want to beleive that it was tweaked to 18 months b/c national found that some cubs were completing the AOL in the 18 month time frame, and by waiting 2-3 months to receive the award and Crossover were leaving the program b/c they were bored. So becuase of all the changes over the years, as well as local variations, national came up with the 18-24 month programwith no hard and fast deadlines. BUT then again with CUB SCOUT 2010 coming out in May, that may change?

Beav, Check out some of the links I gave 'Chief. Soem of the things we did were pool parties Christmas Parties Member/Candidate QnA and Social Guitar Hero Nite Chapter Fellowship and workday Military base tour Hope it helps.

2Cub, Thanks for the clarification and I may have tried tried to overcompensate the situation. Staffing is a concern of mine and I want to get it right. As I said above, staffing is one of my biggest challenges. The CD hasn't done a great job in that area, and to be honest some folks do not want to work with them. Long story short, I was "voluntold" to not only redo the program, but also get more staff. We barely met standards last year, and we had less than 40 CS at camp. This year the goal is 100, so I definately need more staff! I do not want a repeat of last year with begging parents to stay the days of CSDC.

Actually sewing on a button is a Tiger Cub elective Startt them while they are young!

i am definatley workignon that, although I maybe in some trouble with some scouts Prior to training, I used my expereicnes back in the day and was recruiting 13 y.o. as well. NOW I find out that is a no go due to labor laws. I think I will have a few upset scouts. NOW I do have a question for you expereinced folks, and I just want to confirm what I think I understand from NCS. IF a parent is staffing day camp, say a crafts director, and their 13 y.o. will be coming with them everyday, then the 13y.o. may help out their mom in her craft area, but CANNOT be a DC or program aid in another area, nor can the 13y.o. be considered staff. They are just at CSDC helping mom. Correct?

I actually advise against Badge Magic, I had a very bad experience with it's predecessor Badge Bond when I worked supplay back in the day and I was the "Guinea Pig" when trying out new products b/c I wouldn't sell something that i either hadn't used or seen someone i know and trusted using.