Eagle92

Ok I'm back and I've been thinking, yes a dangerous thing at times so here are my thoughts. #1 Several of the SMs and ASMs of units that could not start the fires were involved in scouting during the Dark Ages of the 1970s. Yes taking the OUTING out of ScOUTING inthe 1970s is coming back to haunt us with "experienced" leaders with little outdoor experience. The judges were a little younger, in my generation of Scouting, which had GBB's last BSHB that did emphasize outdoor skills.So there is hope. #2 A lot of the parents I am encountering in CS were never involved in Scouting as a youth, and don't have an appreciation of the outdoors as some of us who were involved do. WE NEED TO GET THEM AND THEIR SONS INVOLVED NOW. (CAPS FOR EMPHASIS). #3 I know that Boy Scouts SHOULD be able to to go on an outdoor adventure under an capable PL with no adult leadership whatsoever, so you may be asking WHY do I want to involve parents. 2 reasons A)I am working on the Cub Scout Level and hence family camping and B) I believe that if the parents see their sons grow in the outdoors and their skills, they will see that their sons are capable of doing it on their own and will be comfortable with their sons going camping without them. EDITED: They should do their camping with their sons at the CS level. Once they are with the troop, the parents need to move away. back to original post. Now grant you I will probably go camping with oldest when he moves into Scouts, but I plan on being 300+ yards away (when possible) in the leaders' campsite doing my "Al Bundy" impersonation and drinking coffee. Now I may teach an occasional advance outdoor skills session, with the invitation of the PLC of course, but I KNOW the scouts will be able to handle 99.99% of the instruction themselves, and will not need me often, if at all. (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Kudu, WELCOME BACK! (yep I'm shouting at you, you've been missed) As for your summary of my post #1 You are correct.yep the scouts couldn't build a fire except for the NSP that were advised on what to do, and the judges hated to do that as it may have seemed unfair to other patrols, and the patrol that doesn't use stoves EXCEPT when the fire ban is on. Thinking about it, the fire ban MAY have contributed to that lack of skill. For almost a continual 2 year there has been a ban. Yes there have been a few weekends when the ban is lifted, usally after a recent rain, but it has almost been conintuous. BUT I do knwo a few troops use nothing but stoves. #2 Partially correct. I do see the need for for PM, CitComm, CitNat, and CitWorld MBs. BUT I would like to done differently. Patrol method is a great way to incorporate aspect of all four MBs. Also I think more action and less paperwork needs to be done. More action like going to several different meetings, taking a stance and writign to several officials, etc. As for PM MB, I think a lot of it should be applied via Patrol Method via budgeting and planning for meetings and trips. let's face it the patrol method is suppose to mirror real life is done properly, AND IT DOES ( CAPS FOR EMPHASIS) As for the soccer and Scouting program, DON'T GET ME STARTED! (NOW I AM SCREAMING, BUT NOT AT YOU). You would think that BSA would have learned its lesson from the 1970s. I got TIGERS chomping at the bit to go camping and do outside activities. And now that Spring is here, we got a day hike planned for next weekend, a raingutter regatta for a meeting, a campout in April and one in May. Whiel the sumemr schedule isn't set in stone yet, it looks as if a good number will be attending Day Camp or resident camp, plus the normal outdoor activities the pack plans: 2 service projects over 3 weekends, baseball camping trip, pool party, etc. Ok so it's not Boy Scout camping, but it IS getting them, and, more importantly, their parents, as I have found, in the outdoors, appreciating that vital element of ALL scouting programs the OUTING. IMHO if we can hook them into camping and the outdoors NOW, they will WANT to be Scouts and learn the traditional Scouting skills later. Sorry for the long post, but it did hit a nerve. I truly believe that we MUST put the OUTING in ScOUTING. I do understand some, stressing SOME, elements of the advancement program like the Cits and PM, but think they need to be more HANDS ON and less paperwork and incorporated via the Patrol Method via elections, event budgets, shopping as a patrol, etc. I do believe the BSA is overcompensating and going overboard in some of the requirements, AND do believe that a strong OUTDOOR program will attract and maintain membership numbers and that the Soccer and Scoutign program is going to flop.

OK since this post is brought back, i am going ot make some comments since I last posted. 1) Yes I think the BSA needs more outdoor orientation, especially since I am seeing a decline in traditional scout skills. let's face it when only two patrols in an entire district can build, light, and boil water on a wood fire ( and one of the patrols did have guidance from the judges as they were a NSP) THERE IS A PROBLEM! You would think the most proficient scout skill these guys would have would be fire building 2) I am seeing a real need for the "paperwork" MBs: Personal Management, and the Cits. PM is a basic life skill, and more of the Scouts I for the MB do not know anything about finances.Yes I know that shouldn't be the case, but I do see the need. As for the Citizenship MBs, they are not learning this in the school system in my neck of the woods. So I do see the need for these as well. 3) agree more hands on and active than paperwork for any and all MBs.

Unfortunately I did have a friend who gave me some warning signs and even mentioned it to me and how she was going to do it. I immediately had my mom drive me to her parents house to discuss what was said to me. Fortunately she got help in time. TALK TO THE PARENTS ASAP AS A LIFE IS INVOLVED!

Too bad they picked some ugly colors for the retro sizes. Too bad they didn't start with adult neckers, i.e. Cub Scout Leader, NCS, etc.

Ok understood, that's what I thought. Good luck with training and keep being motivated. Also for a weekend advanture. In Blount's Creek the Pamlico Sea Base offer's a Cub Scout on Demand program. http://www.eccbsa.org/forms/09%20Cub%20Scout%20on%20Demand%20Flier.pdf Be advised, Camp Bonner has been renamed Camp Boddie.

DYB, no problem, and if I came off too strong, I'm sorry. had that situation with one gung ho parent who after his son earned Tiger, he wanted his son to work on Wolf.

Sky, I was part of the European Camp Staff Program, and my camp Warden asked me if I was interested in going to WB at Gilwell. Unfortuantley it was the same time fram as the WSJ in Holland. Thinking about it, I may have been asked b/c they may have had challenges getting people to sign up for the pilot course. This was 1995 and the UK was in the process of revising WB. Some folks were not happy about the proposed changes.

Unless the troop also has a contingent doing a HA activity, most troops go to one summer camp. Now some folks do go provisional.

Sky, From what I've been told the WB at Gilwell and WB21C here in the States are two completely different animals. While you would be able to wear your beads, woggle, and necker, you would be unable to serve as staff on a WB21C course. Again this is second hand info. I was invited to attend WB at Gilwell in 95, but went to the WSJ instead. I was told when icame back it wouldn't count and I woudl need to take the BSA version.

BD, Not trying to put anyone down. It's just that PH is a "new" course, isn't well advertiased in my council, and I do have experienced SMs and other leaders who give you a deer in the headlights look when you mention PH. In my neck of the woods, not many people know about it, let alone that the insignia for it is authorized for wear on the left pocket. Again, not trying to put anyoen down.

Talk to the event chair or DAC as they will have the answer.

John, Yep I was in the mid to late 80s, with the last HB GBB wrote. My troop policy was that you did NOT earn MBs before 1st, except First Aid as it was required for First Class. Now I was able to work on MBs at summer camp as a 2nd Class. BUT I had everything done except First Aid MB and the swim test. If memory serves, i had my BOR at summercamp. Now in reference to revising First Aid requirements, I agree the t-2-1 skills can be upped a little, and I think the FA MB ones could focus more on camping situations. I know my FA MBC was an exacting, fair, but tough one who used real life outdoor situations that made us think to adapt to the situation. E92

Phib, to get ideas for next year, take a look at FASTRAX as that is the basis of the new CS2010 format that is comignout for next year. I also suggest Program Helps.

The reason why June 1 keeps coming up is because SCOUTNET, which is NATIONAL's. BSA need some national protocol since every school district has different start and end dates. For example growing up we started school in mid August, and finished the 3rd week of May. here in NC they start in mid August, but with all the teacher workdays and vacation days, and snow days, they usually get out the second week of June. FWIW, my pack moved up everyone the 3rd monday in May, when it has been traditionally done. HOWEVER SCOUTNET won't list them as the next level until 1 June.

HMMM, good question. I am a firm believer that First Aid MB should be requiried again for First Class. I say that b/c in my experience whenever there is a medical emergency, and folks know you are a scout, they EXPECT you to know first aid and to administer it until help arrives. This happened to me as a brand new 11 y.o. Tenderfoot, again about a year later, and when I was 16. Luckily the first go around was somehting covered by READYMAN. I would do a compromise. I would focus onthe T-2-1 FA skills, having the older scouts teach it and work withthe younger scouts. rememebr it is a requirement to teach those skills, and it is a great review of the basics of FA. Then I would have the MBC come in, give a talk or presentation AND give an intro on how he can help with the FAMB.

in referecent to the 3 hour meeting, you do mean 3 hour outdoor activity right? a 3 hour meeting can be BORING, but a 3 hour outdoor activity that has fun and excitement, coupled with a little advancement is doable. I remember going to a contruction site that happened be about 150-200 feet up in the air over the MS river for Engineer. I remember a "pool party" at the YMCA to work on Aquanut, I mean Aquanaut

Sounds like a game plan to me . 2 things. 1) there is a Webelos Leader's guide that has lesson plans and ideas on how to run den meetings. Been a while since I read one, so I don't know how helpful or not it would be. I know I use Program Helps this year. So that may help with the advancement. 2) In reference to uniforms, my personal opinion has been to let them wear the blue uniform as long as they can fit into it or want to wear it. THEN move into the CUs. You see originally Webelos were authorized to wear the ODL in Aug 1984. The rationale I was told was that a lot of 5th graders had outgrown their CS uniform and it was a waste of money to but a new blue uniform for a few months. Grant you some folks DID have some room to grow into their blues( like myself), BUT as soon as I could get into a ODL I went for it, and I was in that first group of Webelos to wear the ODL instead of the blues.

DYB, Remember that Cubs cannot start work ontheir next rank until June 1. that;s why they got all those electives. I also noticed the contradictory info and couldn't get an answer from supply folks I know. That said, I went ahead and bought all the books anyway since I need to plan CSDC NOW and not wait until May. PLUS national has a habit lately of publishing things late lately, i.e. the IG, Centential MBs, etc. So I don't know what will happen. ALSO I know on the BS side of things, once a Scout starts working on his next rank, he can use those requirements to full fill the next rank THEN use the new requirements, except for Eagle if memory serves. If the new books and requirements are not out by 1 June when Cub Scouts can start work on their next rank, then I am assuming that the requirements they started work on are valid. Am i wrong?

Base, Here is the quote Lots of interesting viewpoints. At the end of the day the decision is pending at the committee level. Key factors # Data includes several high profile burns (this is not just BSA data, GSUSA, and others who made the headlines). # The incident data indicates lack of qualified supervision and discpline in the use and demostration of the technology. (where have we seen this?) # There is no off switch. # Data indicates homemade stoves are primarily demonstration pieces. What would I predict today as a likely outcome * Don't see elimination of alcohol as a fuel but see it not recommended. * See elimination of homemade stoves. https://community.scouting.org/forums/p/373/14203.aspx#14203 Honestly I do hope it is an urban legend, but... " I got a bad feeling about this."

Well in my experience, the troops that are youth run tend to be more chaotic than an adult run troop. grant you you do have really tight troops out there that are youth run, but in my experience they are older troops, with a good mix of younger and older scouts, lots of tradition, as well as lots of mentoring done by the older scouts to the younger scouts, and of course SM to older scouts. My troop growing up was like that, as well as another troop locally. One troop has the potential to get there, they just need seasoning. THE biggest advantage of a youth run troop vs an adult run is that the youth runtroop can survive SM transitions. Even in the absence of a SM, the SPL and PLC can manage, with a little difficulty grant you, until a dedicated SM can be found. happended in my old troop when the SM of 25 years stepped down, and happened to another troop locally. The "best run troop in the district" growing up was a dult lead, and fell apart when the SM left.

Sounds like a game plan to me . 2 things. 1) there is a Webelos Leader's guide that has lesson plans and ideas on how to run den meetings. Been a while since I read one, so I don't know how helpful or not it would be. I know I use Program Helps this year. So that may help with the advancement. 2) In reference to uniforms, my personal opinion has been to let them wear the blue uniform as long as they can fit into it or want to wear it. THEN move into the CUs. You see originally Webelos were authorized to wear the ODL in Aug 1984. The rationale I was told was that a lot of 5th graders had outgrown their CS uniform and it was a waste of money to but a new blue uniform for a few months. Grant you some folks DID have some room to grow into their blues( like myself), BUT as soon as I could get into a ODL I went for it, and I was in that first group of Webelos to wear the ODL instead of the blues.

DYB, You are correct, BOY SCOUT leaders do not wear patrol emblems on their uniforms, except during, and only during WB21C. Once they complete the week or two weekends the patrol emblems are suppose to come off. HOWEVER CUB SCOUT Leaders do wear their DEN numbers, and when the Webelos DEN decides on a name, they wear that medallion. See the links above. As I have learned this past year, there are minor differences between Cub Scout and BOY Scout leader uniform regs, i.e. blue loops vs OD,temp insignia MAY be worn in jambo spot on CS leader uniforms, leaders wear den emblem, etc. Also the caps above are not shouting,just pointng the differences in terms. DITED: to the best of my knowledge, that's how it's always been. TBH never really paid attention to CS leader uniform regs until this past year.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Me personally I would not wear a district patch on the uniform as they are not authorized. now putting the patch on a hat or necker, I like. Big necker fan, and will be buying a district necker in the very near future. Also one district DID make district patches and put them on hats. I got one.

double post(This message has been edited by eagle92)