Eagle92

SctDad, I was told that you can't use images of living creatures for targets, even if make believe, so Stormtroopers, Genosians, etc are out. However Droidekas, Magnaguards, etc are open season at "Blaster Alley," Gonna use the Death Star Trench and proton torpedo idea for Archery. And I already got tyhe master target copies made

Acco, Actually accoring to the PDF that national came out with 6 months before the CUs came out, national did state that the uniform items were 'mix and match", so that 1981 ODL tie could be worn with the CUs. Sorry I had to play UP here. We just had our district Webeloree which includes an inspection. Had to print up that flyer b/c of the mess that national did in reference to unit numbers.

Kudu, You are correct if they adults won't let the youth use their own tents, per the OP. But there are troops that do provide tents. I know my old troop provided tents to the patrols. If memory serves no one bought their own b/c the patrol had it as part of the patrol gear, which is listed in the group gear section of my old field book. And trust me we were youth run. We weren't the best troop, we weren't the worst troop, but we were the troop that did have an active program that had a good number of 15-17 YOs still involved and TEACHING the younger guys how its done. I agree with you on the thrift stores for boots. Found a nice pair for about $5 bucks, and after a year or two of wear will be getting new soles ion them soon. My old troop didn't keep the boots in the uniform closet, we usually just sold them to the new guys. that's an idea I got to keep in mind. Agree with hooking them into Outdoor Adventure as OUTING is 3/4s of ScOUTING. Guess that's why my troop had a good number of older scouts still active, and not under the current definition of the word either, at 15, 16, and 17 yos. heck we had 18-21yos as ASMs who were active during college breaks.

So is a package on the way?

Again thanks everyone and please keep them coming. i had a good program put together, but looks as if I maybe going overbudget if I keep it. So I am trying to come up with alternatives. John, Know a cheap source for tool box kits? Cheapest I've found is approx $10 via Home Depot. And yep every spacer needs his own tool kit, just ask Han Solo. Just don't want the kit falling on your head.

That's how it was done in my troop. When we brought out of retirement the OWL patrol, we got to keep the old flag and the ribbons. We really weren't working on the BOP patrol award at the time, so don't knwo what the SPL would say abotu it. But after 3-4 months as OWLS, when we changed to RAVENS, we were a "brand new patrol", and had to start from scratch. The one ribbon we earned as OWLS stayed with the OWL flag since it was awarded to the OWL Patrol, not RAVEN Patrol.

'Fish To quote one of my COPE buddies, "You're cruel, I LIKE IT!" ( caps intentional,part of how he says it)

Everyone, Thanks for the help! I great resources and am revising my program events around some of them. Sctdad, 5 words: Camp Charles and High Rock. We got ya monolith!

Again Welcome back Kudu! I hope you do realize that not all troops that use the same type of tent are adult lead. I want to say, and Lisa correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread started b/c the troop she is with wouldn't let the scouts use their own equipment and didn't give a reason to the youth as to why they could not use their personal gear. And I think the scouts should buy what they want, not what the troop tells them. Although I will admit if my old SPL or one of the other youth leaers or adults gave me a recommendation, I'ld probably follow it. Know I didn't follow one ASM's advice one time, suffered miserably for not following it, and exchanged the item for the one the ASM advised. It was a backpack, and I still have it today, 22 years later. Now me personally it wouldn't matter one way or the other. And I think most of use are of the same opinion, it's what's the Scouts want. But she did ask what other reasons, and we gave them to her. And yep FOOTWEAR is the most important than the tent. I'd say a backpack is the next most important, esp one with a hipbelt.

Anna yep each den gets its own number, but my pack too does it that way. they are a new pack so I blame it on training when they got started. Bad thing is I'm one of the trainers now, and I cannot get them to change 'tradition" Considering I got bigger fish to fry, ie CSDC, I'm bnot too concerend.

Concur with Al. After all they still led by a DEN Leader.

Ok folks I need some ideas. Theme for CSDC is Space this year. My idea is to have a cross between NASA and Star Wars, i.e. a Farscapesque idea in which a NASA Crew, the cubs, get sucked into a time space wormhole transporting them to "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away." So Some help and ideas would greatly be appreciated. For example, I knwo NASA has some education packets that they will send, but does anyone have the contact info to get it. Also what did you call the BB Gun and Archery Ranges? Again any and all ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Good topic and I may be repeating some comments so please bear with me. #1 Respect is a two way street in that in order to receive repsect, you must also give it. Treating folks as you want to be treated is a great foundation to the entire concept of respect. So for me it is natural to give someone respect, and expect that the same courtesy be given. Even if you disagree with them. #2 Respect should not have to be "earned," unless it has been lost, and then a discussion needs to occur as to what has happened. I forget the movie it came from, but the quote "You don't have to worry about gaining my respect, you have it. Pray you don't lose it." is a very good example on my views. Losing respect to me is an issue of trust and to regain it takes alot.

Like NOLESRULE, I too was one of those who spent more time as a Life scout than all other ranks combined. The active requirement can be met at ANY point during his time as a Life Scout, not six months prior to the EBOR. My troop was very good and understood us older scouts, and I guess that's why we had a very good Leadership Corps/Venture Crew, now called patrol, when I was a youth and adult in the troop. The troop knew that school and in some cases work needed to come before Scouting, and worked with the older guys. We did a few activities geared towards the older scouts, and instilled in the older guys that yes they have a duty to teach and mentor the younger guys just like you were taught by the older guys. What's interesting is that a few of us who had challenges our Sr. year, usually work related, had no problems being active once we got to college. heck I don't think I missed any meetings or trips when I was in college wiht the troop, save when I worked Summer Camp.

This is how it was handled in my old troop growing up. The second to last activity of the troop meeting was the interpatrol game. Interruptions, talking, etc during the instruction period would cause the instructor to stop what they are doing, remind the other scouts that they are wasting their game time, and wait until matter were settled. Once ALL of the instruction was done, then it was patrol corners time, if we had that was planned (usually we had patrol meetings outside of the troop nite). PL would use the same apporach as above. Prior to the game commencing is there were problems, SPL simply did the scout sign, make the comment "You are wasting your game time" and wait. Game time WAS the best part of the meeting. If we finished instructioon early, we got longer game time. If we were late to game time, too bad. Mostly we wer on schedule. Sometimes early, sometimes late. Only once do I remember losing a signifcant amoutn of game time, only had 5 minutes toplay.

ACCO, once uniform always uniform. We actually have a troop that has all of their adults in ties. Don't know if the troop has a stash, or what, but every formal occasion has them in ties.

When My patrol decided to change its name back in the day, we were originally the Owls, we were limited to another bird by the PLC as "Birds of a feather flock together," and our troop had a history of using bird names. So we went with Ravens. The Owl flag was retired, all ribbons retired with it, and the Ravens started fresh. When I left that troop as a leader You still had the Ravens, Eagles, Hawks, and Venture Crew which really functioned like the old Leadership Corps. last I heard, they were down to one patrol, Eagles due to the membership loss after Katrina. As for gear, the boxes and everything int them were numbered, not named.

Yep. Scout has to call every 3 months. If no calls form the scout, then SM calls, gives him info on upcomign activities, and gives him 6 months to communicate back to SM. After that then he can be dropped.

Mom, that's the OVER method of wear, ie over the tucked under collar.

Lisa, I'msurprised you have stayed as long as you have with your ttoop from everythgn I hear. A few comments. A) Respect is a two way street. Yes the Scouts need to give it to the adults, but the adults must also give respect to the youth. B) Problems need to be resolved through the "chain of command" i.e. SPL, PL, Scout. Adutls shouldn't get involved unless I) the SPL asks for it or II)It is serious enough to warrent an adult's involvement i.e. safety issues C) While there is a time and palce for shouting, i.e. Games, campfires, safety, etc. Shouting for discipline is not appropriate. Now to the scenarios #1 yes the Scouts did not take care of the equipement properly, shouting should not haev taken place, nor and adult's invlvement. Dependign upon how the your troop does it, eithe the QM should handle it (if the troops assigns gear to buddies) or the PL should handle it (if QM assigns gear to the patrol and they are resposnible for it all the time.) Adult shouldn't havebeen involved at all. #2 Why is this a committee matter? This is a program element but an explanation is warrented as this is suppose to be a yuouth run program and explanationare are due youth not only as a sign of respect, but also to show WHY soemthign is done. #3 unless it is a VERY serious matter, the SPL and PLs should administer punishement, not the adults. #4 this is a tricky one for me. In my old troop growing up ALL parents were considered part of the committee, registered or not, and they did sit on the BORs. While those registered in the positions did have uniforms, most parents didn't. That said, the PLs and SPL were the ones enforcing uniform policy, not the adults. While a full uniform was required, if someoen was out of uniform, usually the patrol would help the guy out, i.e. lend a necker and woggle, EXCEPT if the book was missing. Had to have the book to get signed off. Also we cut some slack for the new guys who had just joined. #5 Usually the adults were happy to explain the rationale behind the policy. For example when YP came out and we got our physicals from our ASM (or MC he had both roles during my tenure) who was aslo a MD and we had the CC in the room with us. Lot of us older guys questioned Why, was told the reason, and turned it into a good natured joke about the MD ("like Doc would do anything. He's a good Irish Catholic with 11 kids and one on the way.") #6 Sicne the troop whould be youth led, why is the adults making policy? Now I do knwo that it happened one time in my troop, we had families with us for a special trip and due to the weather the parents decided not to let ANYONE hike inthe cold wet weather, despite the PLCs objections. Plenty of muttering and complaints, and the PLC solved the problem for next time: No families allowed on camping trips.

Have to laff as that was one of the suggested themes for my council. it would have been an excellent choice since the Webelos Director works for... the city's CSI division.

OGE, LOL. In my troop growing up, all the patrols did have the same tents, when I first joined, simply because we bought them in bulk back in the day, made sure all the patrol had enough tents, and the patrols took care of them. They were about 5- 7 years old when I joined the troop. Now when we added another patrol, we didn't get the same tents as before, simply b/c the troop that these guys came from (that troop folded) "sold" us the tents they had. However we did put all those tents in the same patrol box. Now when the troop did have to get new tents b/c the CO used our fiberglass storage shed as a dartboard for their fair and the tents all got moldy and other gear was destroyed, we did replace them, and every patrol got the same type of tents. We got them in bulk and it saved us money. If memory serves, the annual wilderness survival campout came about b/c of this incident where we went had to improvise b/c 85% of oour gear was destroyed. Personally I wouldn't have been able to afford scouting if I had to buy a tent as a youth, nor some of the other equipment that the troop provided via the patrols. BUT making scouts buy their own tents to troop standards is ridiculous IMHO. Some folks may want a backpackign tent for Philmont and other activities, while someone not as adventureous may want a "condo."

For me there are a variety of reasons for using patrol tenting. I say patrol b/c althought he troop buys the tents, they are issued to the patrols and are the patrol's responsibility. #1 Ensures adequate shelter for all members of the patrol. Yuo do get new guys who may not have a lot of gear. Patrol gear, including tents, makes sures that everyone has what they need for the trip. #2 Patrol gear, including tents, ensures responsibility. THEY need to take care of the gear. Put the tents away wet and they get moldy, your patrol is out of luck. If you keep food int he tent despite being told not to, and an animal or ants get to it, leaving the tent damaged, it's your patrol's responsibility to fix it. Use aeosol can isnide the tent eating up the waterproofing, again your patrol's responsibility. #3 Increases comraderie within the patrol. Since the PL assigns tent mates within the patrol, it further increases comraderie. #4 Safety is another concern since you do have folks assigned together in tents, it's another Buddy System. Grant you this is a minor for expereinced scouts who will be up mostof the nite chatting around a campfire, but fo the younger scouts it's a good thing. Helps ease nerves with new guys.

OTN, What's your CSDC Theme this year? Mine last year was Pirates, and I usually wore my Lodge's pirate hat from a conclave (which had a Pirate theme). One day I did wear my Sea Scout uniform with Pamlico Sea Base hat, as my old ship was chartered to the PSB and it was part of the uniform. This year is goign to be harder as we have the Space/ Star Wars theme. I know wthere will be clonetrooper and stormtrooper helmets seen, but Since I am the PD, and my camp name is Yoda, it may be just ears on top of my Smokey Bear.

SCTDAD, A few things. #1 You know I'm sorry to hear about it and yes you are welcome to attend our chapter meetings whenever you want. #2 One of the things about having Scouts in your pack's affiliated troop in the OA is that 90% of the time they can pinch hit for a ceremony team. I say 90% b/c sometimes pack's will do AOL/Crossover at the same time as an OA function, like Conclave weekend or Ordeal. #3 This may, stress MAY, be an option in the future, and one I don't like unless absolutely necessary. You can have an adult Arrowmen do the ceremony. I do not, repeat NOT like this option, but had to do it twice within the past few years. Once was for a pack AOL/CO ceremony because the chapter already split the ceremony team in 2 and was doing 2 ceremonies simultaneously as the one I did ( thank goodness I'm a dancer and have my own rig!). Second time I filled in for a sick ceremonialist for an ECOH. Again I do not like this option, but only offer it as a last resort. BTW you would make a great Straight Dancer!