Eagle92

maybe it's me, but I'd rather see the older scouts working patrols, i.e QM workign the PL on equipment, Scribe working with the PL on attendance, etc than an adult. rather see the adult work with the older scout.

Agree with John, I'd give SOME resposnibility to a yout for aqautics who is a certified LG. And I only say SOME b/c it should be for things his certification covered, i.e. no boating responsibilities to a LG whith no boating certs,i.e. YMCA, ARC, and the 2009 release of BSA Lifeguard. However is lifeguard also take the new boating cert classes via BSA or another program, "LET HIM HAVE IT" ( caps for emphais)

We took the 50 gal water container that was filled with water for firebuckets and would sometimes dunk into it to clean off, hence the "bathtub" reference. Somewhere I got a pic of me in my swim trunks and aquasocks taking a "shower" on the outskirts of my campsite b/c the showerhouse was in the youth only time period, and I REALLY needed a shower coming off the COPE course before gloing to dinner.

Every unit does it a little differently. Some will assign an ASM to them, one troop I was with was like that, but most I've been with don't. One problem I saw was it was too easy for someone to go straight to the ASM instead of the PL. Also some ASMs had a hard time letting the youth run the program. As for college age Scouters, nothing wrong with that. Usually they have been part of the program, are extremely knowledgable, are respected by the scouts, can relate better with the scouts, and is someone they want to be like. Been there, done that. Problem I encountered was that other adults wouldn't take me seriously. Best example of that was being an OA Chapter Adviser at 21, and having a SM scream at me b/c I was following OA procedures for a unit election, and the election didn't turn out the way he wanted it to.

WOW. This ASM wouldn't have liked my troop as we had a water station set up using the water faucet in the campsite and a garden hose. that and the 50 gal. "bathtube" we had in the campsite. Definitely a PLC issue.

Here are the old requriments to SMAM Requirements The Scoutmaster Award of Merit may be earned by a Scouter who meets the following requirements. The nominee need not be an Eagle Scout but must: Be a currently registered Scoutmaster who has served in that position for at least 18 months Have achieved the Quality Unit Award at least once during his period of service Have completed Boy Scout Leader Fast Start and Scoutmastership Fundamentals or equivalent Have a record of proper use of the Boy Scout advancement program, resulting in a majority of his Boy Scouts attaining the First Class rank Have a record of: Development of boy leadership through the patrol method Positive relations with the troop's chartered organization An extensive outdoor program including strong summer camp attendance A positive image of Scouting in the community A troop operation that attracts and retains Boy Scouts The following must be attached to the application form: A list of Boy Scouts who became First Class Scouts during the nominee's tenure as a Scoutmaster A statement by the senior patrol leader on behalf of the patrol leaders' council and the troop committee chairman attesting to the nominee's performance as Scoutmaster. (This statement is certified by the senior patrol leader and troop committee chairman.) Requirements The nominee must: Be a currently registered Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, or Advisor who has served in that position at least 18 continuous months. Meet the training requirements for the registered position. Distribute a printed or electronic annual unit program plan and calendar to each family in the unit. Have a leader succession plan in place. Effectively use the advancement method so that at least 60 percent of the units youth have advanced at least once during the last 12 months. Cultivate a positive relationship with the chartered organization. Project a positive image of Scouting in the community. Nomination Procedure The unit committee chair completes the Unit Leader Award of Merit Nomination Form on behalf of the unit committee. For Boy Scout troops, Varsity Scout teams, and Venturer crews, the nomination must include endorsement by the senior patrol leader, team captain, or crew president, respectively. The unit or district commissioner certifies that the form is complete. The unit submits the nomination form to the council for approval by the Scout executive and council commissioner or president.

Challenge is that a lot of what NASA pioneered has trickled down to everyday use. And I don't mean just Tang either. Fabrics that were created for insulating spacesuits are now used to make lightweight but ultrawarm sleeping bags and camping clothing. Food used in space are now staples in the REI, and other outdoor store (MMM beef stoganoff with noodles, just got some today for next weekend.) And it goes on and on.

Avid, From what I've read, YES b/c the SM and CA Awards of Merit were specific awards given by NESA and are now discontinued. yep they are no more. This is a completely new award, with new requirements, and is expanded to all program areas.

No such rule as I would NOT have been able to be a DC if this rule existed as my troop NEVER had an affiliated pack until my last year as a youth in it. The reason why you are in the power struggle situation is b/c the troop affiliated with yu sees the DC as a 'thief" trying to take "their" scouts away. It happened with me, my entire den joined DC's troop instead of the troop chartered by the pack's CO, and as an adult. In both cases, the troops not providing DCs eventually folded.

J, In reference to DFSs' comments to us. In my case I believe the DFS and SE didn't want the IH and CORs to know their exact responsibilities, i.e voting rights on District and Council Committees b/c they could form a block and vote against the direction the SE wants to go. Again my theory.

Dave, I'm still confused, what is your definition of "CO Hopping?" Is it when an established unit is looking to move just b/c they don't like the CO? if that's the case then yes I agree with you. But if it's ANYTIME an established unit moves to a new CO, then I must respectfully disagree. If this second defintion is the case, then would't the unit your KC council now charters be guilty of "Co Hopping" sine they moved form teh parochial school to the KC?

I have mixed emotions on this. One one hand I have used ebay to replace restricted items that I have earned, but have either lost, or the most likely case, destroyed at my mom's house during Katrina. I have also used ebay to get restricted items that I was not able to purchase at the time, i.e. WSJ jambo backpatch comes to mind, as well as duplicate items, BA22 patches and a few extra jambo patches again. On the other hand, I don't like the idea b/c I don't want people wearing what they haven't earned.

If it seems like I am attacking COs, that is not the case. But what is upsetting is when an IH doesn't understand their actual role in the BSA, and doesn't get involved, even if it's just to visit a COH they were invited to, meeting with the unit leaders to gain an insight how the the unit is an outreach of the CO and does have a role to play, or refuses to meet with the DE for the annual meeting to review the status of the units. Now I admit that last one I can partially blame pros b/c many do not go out and visit their IHs like they are suppose to every year. Part of that is the stress placed on them about other parts of their job. I know my DFS told me visiting IHs was not important as other parts of the job and discouraged me from doing them. But I believe that if DEs did meet with IHs, explain what the IH can do and how the untis can make an impact in the CO, alot of the unit-CO challenges would go away. Edited to add. In the case of the original CO,once the troop left, a vacancy in the needs of the parish DID occur as the troop that did these services were no longer in place. Probably one reason why the next IH saw a role for Scouting and created a troop.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

David, Let me see if I understand you correctly. What you are saying is that the scouts, parents, and leaders just quit scouting altogether because the IH doesn't want a scout unit anymore. Is that correct? If that's the case, then what should folks do if they want to continue to either be in the program, have their children in the program, or want to continues serving youth in Scouting? What if another organization wants a scouting unit and is willing to take them in, would you deny that organization the opportunity to do something the organization wants to do? On a more personal note, have you ever been involved in starting a unit from scratch? I ask because I have been involved in starting units from scratch. Sometimes it's easy, everything fall into place with a willing CO, leaders and a community that needs scouts. that happened with two units I started, a pack and troop with the same CO. However most of the time it is not that easy. The other units I started had more challenges. With the pack I started at the Catholic Church it was a challenge finding leaders and members. Most parishioners have their sons established units and did not want to help start a new unit. And while I had a lot of support starting a new pack from the community, once I told them the the Catholic Church was going to be the CO, I encountered my first taste of anti-Catholic bias in the USA. That unit dissolved in less than a year. Another pack never got off the ground b/c no one wanted to step up to the plate and be a leader. Another troop dissolved when the SM was transferred by his job and no one would step up. In my experience doing roundups and starting new units, I can always find youth, it finding leaders that is the challenge. In only the pack and unit I cited above by the same CO did everything fit together easily. And the troop was an outgrowth of the pack 8 months later when their Webelos crossed over.

JBlake, In my unit's first case, the IH decided the troop no longer met the demographic needs of his church. The church parish when the troop was started was much larger geographically, but with a smaller population. As the city grew and grew, the church parish got smaller as other churches were created, but the population grew. However the demographics with the parish changed from mostly Caucasian, to mostly Hispanic. While the troop did reach out to the Hispanic community, it wasn't reciprocated by the Hispanic community. Unfortunately the situation came to a head when our storage closet was literally broken into, supplies stolen, and the closet left in shambles. After discussing the with the IH, we got permission to buy a fiberglass shed and store it on church property. Unfortunately within 2-3 months of buying the shed, it was used as a dartboard at the church's fair, and when the troop leadership discussed the situation again with the IH that was when he said that since the demographics have changed that have no interest in scouting, and no one in the troop was residing in the current parish boundaries (remember the boundaries shrunk as new churches were created), he thought it would be best if we left. As for the second case, when the new IH met with the troop leadership, she stated that she did not like Boy Scouts and would like for us to leave. To emphasize her dislike for Boy Scouts, when we were running approx 5-10 minutes after an ECOH, which she was invited to and declined, ( we were cleaning up the facility like we always did) she called the police on us saying we were trespassing on the church's property. luckily she wasn't very clear in contacting the police, only stating that there were people trespassing and causing problems, and the officer who responded to the call was also was an ASM. It was only after he talked to use while we were leaving to see if we saw anything or anyone, which we said no, and he then went to the nunnery did he find out she was referring to the troop as the trespassers. Luckily we were helping a new troop out at the time, and when we went to discuss a merger between the two troops, their IH welcomed us with open arms. Helps having an Eagle as IH and the CC/COR not only goes camping, teaches MBs,etc but is also on the parish board. EDITED; Agree having a relationship with the IH and the CO is VITAL to the success or failure of the unit. I always liked doing service projects that helped out the CO, i.e. helping to organize and staff a blood drive for a parishioner in need, recording a Bible on tape for those parishioner who can no longer read, cutting palms for Palm Sunday, etc.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

David, The what do you suggest to scouts, parents and leaders to do when they are informed that the CO no longer want them, and that the unit will cease to exist after the charter ends,or maybe even before the charter ends?

As a former pro with a unit in a similar situation, not quite the same but similar, I can tell you that the council will not get involved as it is a "local unit problem." They can give you advice, help you go to your IH and/or COR to deal with the problem, but they cannot get involved. Several things worry me. #1 the fact that the pack and troop have joint accounts. That shouldn't be, even with units that have the same leadership, b/c they are two separate entities doing two separate things. #2 I NEVER (caps 4 emphasis) like the fact that 2 family members are on unit's checking account. Problems appear to easily. I personally would look for another unit. A pack is not a one man show as it appears to be.

We had a mass exodus this year with my pack. Fortunately the reason was easy to explain and the "split" was amicable, although we had to scramble to replace the leaders involved. One of the local churches with a long history in Scouting but defunct units asked one of its members if he would restart the pack. After about 1 month of thinking and working on details to restart the pack, he told the pack he was leaving to restart the pack at his church. Families had the choice of sticking with us or their DL turned CM, and so we lost some folks. While a few folks had hard feelings, most understood that it's hard to tell your pastor no. Hardest part was replacing him adn his wife as they were phenomenal leaders.

Suppose to be. More challenging though in that chapter only meets 1 time a month on average compared to a troop's 4 times a month on average. Plus the #1 responsibility of every Arrowman, from the newest member to the national chief, is their unit. So when conflict with a troop occurs, troop wins out. Also b/c we are a service organization, sometimes when the choice between a fun event, say conclave, or a work event, say staffing Webeloree occurs, the service event will win out, at least in my neck of the woods.

The CO owns the unit. The IH selects a COR to rep him. CC and SM are a team that work together to create a program and they work for the COR. COR has the ability to approve and disapprove leaders, remove existing leaders, and create policy within the unit. One example is that my IH has mandated that all pack activities end in a prayer. The COR also represents the IH and CO on the district committee and council committee, with a vote on both. yes they have a major say in the policies that affect their units. However I count only 1 COR who has actually done that in my 15 years of working on the district committee level.

'fish, there are several types of BSA certifications or equivalents, if memory serves. the Biggie is National Camping School, which also dual certifies you through NRA I believe ( never taken the course).it's a week-8 day long ( depending whether you take the pistol cert or not (optional though recommended if working with Venturers) and NCS cert covers CS and BS shooting sport activities (bbguns, archery, rifles, and shotgun). NRA certification, military cert, and I've been told LE certs will allow you work those ranges on the BS level under a NCS person. Now for CS, I've been told the certs above could run BB gun ranges, need to double check that though. BUT there is a CS shooting sports cert that covers BB guns and archery that an NCS cert person can teach. it's only a day long, and is the minimum required for CSDC and res Camp. So that might be the route you want to go. BTW want to staff CSDC with me? I'm looking for a second BB gun person and 2 archery folks.

David, You are correct in that some COs are looking to use in house programs, i.e Columbian Squires, CYOs etc. In my unit growing up,that happened twice. We were told that that we needed to move on b/c they were bringin in their own program. Funny thing was that once the IH who asked us to leave had been transferred, the new IH came in and started... a scout troop and pack. But I must disagree with COs exerting more control, they don't want to. In the cases I've dealt with, they simply don't want to exert the control that they already have. Best example was the church that dropped the pack b/c they did not want homosexual leaders in the pack. I kept reminding them that "The IH or COR approves all leaders" ( bold for emphasis)over and over again,a s well as the fact that the CO owns the pack and can do anything they want within BSA regs, but still they did not want to exert that control.

Click, the 18-20 yo old Venturers taking WB actually makes sense to me. Let's face it and 18-20yo ASM, CSADL, or WADL could take WB, why not a Venturer?

'nut, Don't know where the DE was when this happened. BUT I can tell you as an ex-DE I was never told about this clause until recently, as in many years after I was a DE. While the CO did get some money, it wasn't as much as they thought they were getting. This is very interestign in that we have a unit that has been out of existance over 6 years now, and looks to have no hope of restarting. BUT that church has all of the equipment, including brightly colored equipment trailer, canoe trailer, canoes.

In reference to equipment and money. We had a troop fold and merge into ours. The Old CO wanted all the money in the account after they left. Since the old CO didn't want the equipment, they told the troop leadership to sell it and give them the money. This money was earned by the scouts not given to them by the CO, and was mostly in scout accoutns. Long story short, the folding troop decided to not only used the money in the scout acounts to pay for sumemr camp for all the boys, whoever didn't have the full amount in their account had the difference paid for by the troop. Also the troop paid the transfer fees for everyone to join our troop before turnignover the money to the old CO. And all receipts for their recent expenditures were turned it as well. As for the equipment, which was almost brand new(less than a year or two old) my troop bought all of it for about $50. Again the troop used their own resources to but it and had no help form the CO. Again all the money left in the troop account was turned into the CO. They did get some, but not as much as they though they would get. they wer a paper only CO and for whatever reason when they found out how much money was int he troop's account, they wanted it.