Eagle92

Officially yes because as I keep telling my three bead friend who is also a Camping, Hiking, and backpacking MBC' "you are no longer considered Trained" Seriously thought at the current time, the ability to demonstrate the T-2-1 skills taught at IOLS to an instructor and 'test out" exists. Don't know if that option will remain with the new outdoor skills course that combines Webelos, Scout, and Venturing leaders, esp. since all the specific courses will be available online in the near future.

or the TC's belt is crooked. Question, if TC are now fully integrated into CS, why do they still wear blue and orange socks from the pre-CS days?

Stone, in case i have don't so already, welcome to the forums. unfortunately not every chapter is organized like that. Been in 5 councils, and only one was like that. Now we do carpool to major events, i.e. Conclave, Ordeals, Fellowships, etc, but not the chapter meetings.

First I heard about the revised Catholic polciies. No offense BP, but until I hear it from my own pastor, I will do as I have been advised to do by a priest on my old council's CCS, as well as the priests I went to HS under. Even then, until it comes "ex cathedra," I am not worried about it.

EV, Very good point. Now I admit I do not like the current definition of active per the Advancement manual, I prefer the one in the Bylaws much better. But that is the policy we have to follow. I have a serious issue with "ghost scouts" and "ghost units" b/c they do hurt scouting, both in everyday affairs and in the long term public image. Been there, done that, tried to solve the problem.

UC, That must be a local council policy as nothing prohibiting rockets is in the GTSS, and several of my council's CSDCs are doing rocket launches. Wish mine could, but we are in the middle of a council camp and have no large fields. edited: I remember doing rockets at "dad and lad" back in the day, and they do them at res camp if memory serves.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Primary responsibility of every Arrowman is their unit. So he should skip the OA event since he is SPL and vital to the unit. Concur in trying to go to as many monthly meeintgs and events as possible. Have him read the OA handbook and talk to Brotherhood members about Brotherhood requirements. As I tell new Ordeal members, " If I can pass the Brotherhood test, ANYONE can pass the Brotherhood test."

John, I hear ya. Been there, seen that, and I do like how at national events you have different faiths doing their own services at camp. One of the best Scout's Own I ever attended made no mention of God whatsoever. A Scottish troop essentially put on a mock trial in the future where Scouting is banned. The "Scout" on trial didn't live up to the Oath and Law, and was found innocent. Now you are wondering how can you have a Scout's Own without "God?" They took all the religious faiths present and see how their beliefs fit into the Scout Oath and Law, as religion was also banned in the scenario. OGE "EEEEEEHHHHH"

I have mixed emotions on this. On one hand the guy seems to have his life back in order and is a contributing member of society. So part of me says give him a chance. On the other hand, while a background check is not 100% accurate, nor can it detect those who have not been caught yet, it is a deterent to those who would prey upon the scouts. I have had to del with a YP issue in which a volunteer did not have a background check and things happened. This happened in the UK and I remember the incident to this day. So part of me says keep a very close eye on the situation.

One complaint I've heard is that by having LDS units leave early, it does not promote eucuneicism (sp) with the other scouts when they do the 'Scout's Own" services. Also some denominations do have evening services, so that youth who can go on out, come back at 1PM, take a nap, and then go to church with the family in the evening. I know working summer camp the complaint is that staff have to wake up earlier then usual, miss breakfast, sometimes get additional staff for aquatics, in order to conduct swim tests before classes start b/c of the late arrival of LDS units. Now in reference to training, I have a hard time taking one day off to do things for scouting, but i don't think it would be possible to get 2 days off consistently to do training. yep scouting can take you away from your regular church services. but sometimes it is an expereince to wake up and see God's handiwork up close and personal.

EV What about summer camps that do not use blue cards, but computer printouts? What about troops that do not use blue cards at all? I was always told that the scout's handbook was the "primary evidence" that requirements for rank were met, and have seen handbooks used to correct council records when they had the wrong dates listed, i.e. registrar put the date she entered the MB or rank into the system instead of the actual date it was earned. Not trying to be a pain, but I've seen these things happen. And it wasn't the blue card that was used as evidence of completion, but the BSHB and the initials in it.

And let's not forget that some troops don't use blue cards. Never had one while a scout. used photocopy of the requirements to initial and sign off.

Growing up the SPL was too busy runnign the troop meeting to attend the committee meeitng.

Baccus, one thing to add to my summary, b/c I've had mixed interatcions with LDS units. The LDS units with TRAINED (caps for emphasis, not screaming) leaders that I met the "LDS Week" of summercamp were no different than non-LDS units except for the Swim tests monday morning. Ditto for the LDS unit in a district that had their bishop actively involved, i.e. he was the District Chairman. From my expereince, and from the discussions I've had with others, it is the LDS units that are constantly changing leadership and/or not gettinng them to training that causes the challenges.

'Irish, An Arrowman's primary duty is to their service. If the troop needs them, that is where their responsibility goes. If the troop doesn't need them, then off they go. For example, At one event this past month, we had an OA set up. Our chapter chief is big on AIA, being a singer, but his crew was also doing a display, and needed his help more than the OA. Guess where he was, with his crew. Another young man's troop didn't go to camporee b/c they couldn't get enough adult leaders to go. guess what he did, OA AIA booth.

'Irish I have to agree with Lisa, try not to narrow down who can get in. You may be pleasently surprised as who the youth elect. One of the challenges of new units and established units that do not participate in OA activities is that they have no idea when OA events will be and sometimes double book. usually it's not b/c they aren't advertised, but that they are simply overlooked. In the 5 lodges I have been in, all have established weekends that constantly repeat year after year. Only time a weekend might change is when a holiday is involved, i.e. my lodge changed officer's training this year b/c it fell on New Year's Day, and oen year they changed the Conclave date b/c it conflicted with Easter. I can tell you first hand that the OA kept me active as a young leader with my. After I turned 18, I was looking for something beyond the troop, found Sea Scouts, and the ship didn't meet my needs. HS friend was LC and got me back involved with the OA. the emphasis of service and the fellowship of the OA was what kept me with my troop. I was active with my troop, by I did have the opportunity to do more.

Sctdad, If the NYLT syllabus is anything like the old JLT syllabus, their is a specific progression to the events, and I wouldn't take anything out of context from it. There is a method to the madness. From my readings on EDGE, it's just a jargonized, updated version of teh old "Tell, Show, Do" of yesteryear. Here are my thoughts, and not necessarily in any order. #1 use some of the older troop level training. 3rd ed SM HB, older troop leader training manuals etc. #2 Try to incorporate initiative games to demonstrate teamwork. #3 Incorporate basic scout skills, T-2-1 Skills, in a patrol element during the training. #4 Use interpatrol competition. #5 use reflections, debriefings, Socratic Method, whatever you want to call it, to see how the patrols could do better after each activity. #6 GET YOUR OLDER, MORE CAPABLE YOUTH TO DO THE BULK IF NOT ALL THE TRAINING (caps for emphasis.)

I know every district and council is different, but in mine the CSDC folks usually don't ask if you are OA or not. Grant you some of the CSDC CDs and PDs are Arrowmen, but the emphasis is on GETTING STAFF. Now I know the OA has been included in my district's CSDC in the past, and last year we had several youth and adult members on staff. But I also recurited them Also I know that we are looking to have the OA perform at one of the quiet time sessions this year. Hopefully the youth will approve.

Unfortunatley not every chapter is doing well in my lodge, as SctDad can attest, but overall the lodge is pro service, and doing well. Yep we get the sash and dashers and flap wearers, but overall their is a sense of commitment to service. My chapter was having challenges, adn i viewed it as an image problem. We were active and doing things, but #1 we were not visible and #2 we weren't having fun. Yes we are a service organization, but we still have to make it fun. Helps to have former camp staff members as adults;) As for the visibility, I know some did not like the 'excessive" wearing of the OA sash, but it has made a difference. One key is to have an enthusiastic adult adviser who can communicate well with the other adults in the district. I say adult b/c there are some leaders who do not view 18-21 yo OA members as adults.. But get a motiviated, enthusiastic, and Communicative adult to handle the adutl side. Then get the same criteria as a youth. This can be hard as once you finally got your youth broken in, they either age out or move on you, and the procees starts all over again. But get a good chapter chief who can realte to the others inthe district and start havign a mix of work and fun, and the chapter will grow. And when chapters grow, it will keep scouts intersted in their troops.

Maybe it's a good thing that my lodge requires 7 hours of cheerful service in order to obtain a ldoge flap. We are BIG on service, 3 Ordeals and a lodge workday during a normal year. More workdays than normal this past year due to hosting conclave. Also we staff all kind of CS events. Heck one of my complaints was that someone switched weekends of the Webloree to the same weekend as Conclave, and our Arrowmen worked that instead of going to conclave. One of the challenges that has been noted in this post and elsewhere, and I have also addressed this issue, is that the OA has been a behind the scenes presence for a very long time. We are the grunts doig the dirty work, and people don't realize that, yes the OA is helping with this event. Not trying to toot our own horn, btu sometimes the simplest thing can make a world of difference in visibility. We make sure OA sashes are worn at soemtime during events we work. We advertise our presence with signage. We ask that folks where chapter or lodge t-shirts when working. One of the most impressive things I've seen is getting all Arrowmen, active or not, to stand behind the Call Out ceremony team and serve as a backdrop for the ceremony. Nice to get 60+ folks out there. and gives the chapter visibility, esp with the parents.

Some Ideas we had 1)canoe trip 2) when it was allowed lazer tag 3)Wi(?) nite 4) Movie Nite 5) Game nite, ie. board and role playing 6) Pizza Nite

Correction, most CS awards are either on a blue background or yellow background b/c of the colors of the ladies blouses. Sometime int he 60s I belive the yellow blouse became popular.

Hendricks, once upon a time, BSA would put the knots on colored backgrounds, specifically white or navy for Sea Scouts, green for Explorers. Trust me the khaki background knots on Sea Scout whites look VERY bad. Also in ref to military ribbons, the ribbon is multicolored in toto. With BSA knots, while the knot itself represents the award recieved, the colored background was originally intended to match the shirts. That's why most CS knots have a blue background, formt he time 'Den Mothers" wore the blue dresses and blouses.

Part of the fear is that the "OA takes my boys away." I've heard it numerous times as a OACA, and can understand that to a degree. Some troops with poor programs will lose scouts and/or leaders to more active units. Seen that happen twice so far. Also saw it where some OA officers, specifically Lodge level officers, who are away at college will not do as much with their troops as their OA duties are taking up their time. But again that is with the lodge level folks. Overall I've found that those who are active in the OA actually remain longer in Scouting. Since most OA events are scheduled in advance, unit conflicts are for the most part avoidable. now sometimes there is overlap, i.e. council and district camporee and an OA event at the camporee which needs staffing, but for the most part it is avoidable on the Scout and Venturing level. Now if only they would not double book CS and OA events the same weekend. I know my district use to schedule Webeloree the same weekend as Conclave, and it sucked for our Arrowmen. Once we got an Arrowman in charge of the event, problem solved. I am hoping about Fellowship and Camp Charles.

Kudu, Maybe the top brass in A'stan IS correcr: powerpoints are making us stupid. SctDad, Troop Leader Training may be what yo are looking for, but I advise waiting untilthe updates come out as they are revising it. I am going to echo Kudu in other posts on this topic, take a look at the 3rd ed. SM HB. There is a training syllabus in there. Now it may need to be slightly modified to keep it current, but overall it looks VERY good and reminds me of some of the things I did as a yute. Only difference was that we had the SPL and Leaderhsip Corps training us instead of the SM.