Eagle92

I'm, #1 WELCOME TO THE FORUMS! (caps intentional as I am shouting a greeting at ya ) #2 I wouldn't worry about having the wrong color numbers as national has screwed up this issue so much it's ridiculous. Heck if you look at the 2nd link, the one with the CS leaders in red and white numbers, the CM is wearing a green and tan trained strip, not the small red and tantrained strip he's now suppose to wear. #3, yep once offical always official. that's how the BSA controls the uniform image and will go after folks legally if they choose to.. SOOOO you have a VINTAGE 2008-2009 CS Leader Uniform. just save those pdfs in case the uniform police come after ya. Again I wouldn't worry about it. The only reasons why I even changed from my tan and greens to red and whites was A) I will be involved with CS for 9 more years as only oldest is in Cubs and B) I am on the training staff, and C) guilt complex for being "out of uniform" as i'm a member of the Uniform Police Also I am a cheapskate and look at alternative sources for uniforms, i.e. ebay, thrift stores, etc. you'll be surprised at the shirts, and if you're a patch collector, the patches, you will find. Also saves $.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

my council also has stuff out of stock and backordered from national. I've been told that national is having some supplier issues. Maybe if they were made in the USA it would speed up the process?

Adam and 'Fish, hear ya about the patches everywhere. You wuld think they would look at their son's book or other literature. Then again there are discrepancies as shown above. However my favorite discrepancy is that according to the inspection sheet found here http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/34048.pdf which states that Temporary insignia, including one current world Scout jamboree patch, centered on pocket. Only one temporary insignia may be worn at a time, and they are not required for correct uniforming. Cub Scout leaders and female leaders wearing the official uniform shirt or blouse may wear one temporary insignia centered above the Boy Scouts of America strip. (bold for emphasis) So a CS leader wearing a temp patch in the jambo spot is cool

'Fish, Just a tad. part of the reason why it irks is that I use to work supply, and know for a fact there are folks in supply who do know what they are doing, do state things are wrong or will not work, and then get ignored. I remember when the AOL belt buckle came out, and I said it was a ridiculous idea b/c once you get AOL, you are moving into scouts, and you don't want to wear "CS stuff" when the BS option exists. Ditto some of the crazy things that came out in the past in relation to camping gear. Luckily Supply is starting to get their act together in the camping equipment department. Jetboil and MSR Whisperlights at competitive prices, I LOVE IT.

BA, no spa, but they did offer swimming and swim tests to do boating. Also the Southeast LA Council out of New Orleans also has a great event that combines every one, but has certain areas for CS only and certain areas for BS and Venturers only.

Short, It's doable with an all ages event. Just need to keep things separate with little to no overlap. East Carolina Council just did that last month, and the problem we ran into was long lines in the "central plaza" and some scouts trying to do bowling. Climbing tower was VERY popular, TC son and I waited 50 minutes only to be turned away due to closing, and I bleieve the diversity games also had a line. Overall i thik it went very well with some minor glitches.

I sure hope that they do not do away with any more of the time requirements. it's bad enough that just being onthe charter counts as time in rank. Wish it was more like Sea Scout advancement with %ages.

I wouldn't worry about it. I just watched the new CM Fast Start, and the CM in the video had onthe red and white numbers with a.... tan and green trained strip. If national can't get things correct, how the heck are we suppose to know?

yep it's a lcoal requirement for some councils. One council no longer requiries it as elements of Risk Zone are incorporated into Haz Weather.

double post(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Moose, While change can be good, I see the merging of WeLOT and IOLS as a good thing, you must keep the basics and what the kids want. Kids want excitement, they want challenges, they want to try new things, they want be independant, and they want the outdoors. The Patrol Method, which goes to the very beginning of Scouting at Brownsea island and is used worldwide, is part of that. take that away and you no longer have Boy Scouts but Webelos IIIs. The outdoors is another part of scouting that goes back to Brownsea. Green Bar Bill has stated that "Outing is 3/4 Scouting," and " Scouting is Outing." BSA from 1972 to 1979 took the "Outing out of Scouting," as evidenced by the drastic reduction in membership. My older brothers were involved in scouting in this period until they moved. Reason why they didn't continue: it was boring and didn't live up to the hype that my Eagle and Silver Award Uncle and Eagle cousin portrayed it to be. They weren't doing the outing. Scouting had to bring out of retirement Green Bar Bill to write a new handbook and outdoor emphasis program materials in order to save scouting. unfortunately we are seeing some of the repurcussions today, i.e. new leaders with no prior scouting expereince, execs who do not understand the accomplishment that is Eagle, etc. I agree with BP's concern about comments from the CSE, especially the comments on camping not being an emphasis and troops needing to bring the entire family along. That is the antithesis of both the Outdoor Method and Patrol Method. i would also say that it inhibits Personal Growth in that from my expereinces with parents who are not familiar with the scouting program, or who do not recognize the KSAs of their children, the parents hold back their Scouts, inhibiting their growth.

Ok a little more ranting. As you can guess this issue ticks me off to no end. The numbers issue casued headaches in my pack. parents upset since they went out and got the greet numbers, as they were told, only to discover a few months later that the info they received was wrong and they need red numbers. leaders upset because they also were told green numbers AND received the green trained strips, remember national collected all the old red and tan ones so they were not available, and now were told they need to buy the new, smaller red and tan trained strips. Long story short, my pack decided not to worry about it. If you are wearing green and tan, keep them. wearing red keep them BUT I can tell you that this screw up from national has discouraged some parents and leaders from buying uniforms. there are DLs who will not buy a uniform until things settle down with national, i.e. they now have a "female cut" uniform. Hopefully some of these leaders will get uniforms finally.

Also not trying to sound harsh or snarky or whatever. I think the unit number color change for Boy Scouts is the most idiotic thing since it is causing a heck of a lot of confusions, especially since national did put out 9 months of incorrect info out there. Good news is that #1 you are not alone in wearing the wrong colors #2 national did say at one time that CS leaders Could wear the tan and greens, got a copy of that pdf somewhere plus that is what they told every one for 9 mopnths ( also got the pdf with national saying the CS leaders would wear red on tan numbers, but htta is a different story), and #3 national did say that elements of the ODL uniform are interchangable with the CUs, so Scouts and Boy Scout Leaders could still wear red numbers and loops on the CUs Great big screw up dontcha think?

Hate to say it, but you are both wrong, red numbers are worn for Webelos in the CU, CS leaders, Venturers and venturing Leaders. Understandable that folks still have the wrong info since A) national released the Insignia Guide for the CUs 9 months AFTER the CUs came out and B) Some literature still has the wrong info. here are my sources and they are correct since I am one of the UPs giving national an earful since they released the red tan strips and the new Insignia Guide a week after I bought and sewed on my green numbers and trained strip. national has updated them as I have complained. http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Male_Leader_Scout.pdf Has the correct unit numbers listed by the correct Item # http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Male_Leader_Checklsit.pdf states the correct item numbers and "Red Trained Emblem (Cub Scout Leaders)" and "Unit Numerals red (Cub Scout leaders, list your unit number on the order form.): 0 (00), 1 (01), 2(02), 3 (03), 4 (04), 5 (05), 6 (06), 7 (07), 8 (08), 9 (06) invert" In reference to Webelos wearing the red, here are the links "Unit Numerals red } http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Webelos_Checklist.pdf and http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Webelos_Scout.pdf

not a troop trad, but a camp one. Singing America

BP, One of the challenges that you may be seeing with HR execs is that they came of age in the 1970s, back inthe days of the "urban scouting" fiasco. Another challenge is the lowing of the age for Scouting as well as the removal of time requirements between the T-2-1 ranks. While a "mover and a shaker" could earn Eagle after 2 years of becoming a BS, he would have to hit the BOR dates on target exactly. Since the removal of the time requirements at that level, I've actually sat on three BORs for one scout in the same nite.

Sbemis, Isn't that adding to the requirements?

maybe we need to get suppliers in the USA instead of importing them from Chine?

BP, Well if the BSA does a repeat of the 1970s, 2 things may occur. #1 Those old timers may keep on scouting, and probably have units that grow while other wither or #2 the nascent Baden Powell Scouts in the USA may expand.

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks after all . Seriusly though VERY WELL DONE! Just remember to keep teaching the basics, i.e. map and compass. My sister had a GPS unit in her car and I had my trusty map and compass. Long story short, I was telling my wife we missed turns following sis and her GPS. EDITED: just had the map, didn't need the compass. And yes I just laffed every time my sister made u turns(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Intersting question. A few thoughts. #1 there would probably be another top rank in a rank based program. #2 If they did away with Eagle or replaced it with another award, a lot of ticked off people would complain. Speaking from experience as my PDL-1 class was told byt he then venturing Director that the Silver award was replacing Eagle as the BSA's top award. There were 40+ very ticked off pros in that room. #3 If they completely did away with ranks, I think some of the motivationfor older scouts would be lost. Not only for those who want Eagle and leave, but also those who are looking for definable challenges let's face it, even if you do the bare minimum, Eagle is a challenge. #4 Some scouting units, mostly those adult led, advacnement oriented units. would be compeltely lost. Those that are true " Hiking and Camping troops" would survive.

From what I've read on national's website, and have been told by my SE after his Top Hands conference is that ONLY, again stressing ONLY, the various Leader Specific Training will be availbale online. BALOO will remain the same, ie daylong outdoor oriented. WeLOT and IOLS will be merged into a weekend long, OUTDOOR ( caps for emph.) training that willbe for AWDLs, WDLs, ASMs, SMs, ACAs, and CAs. However the merged syllabus will not be out until later this year or next year. My suggestion, and again this is my suggestion, skip WeLOT, and go ahead and take IOLS. From what I've read, all the skills covered in WeLOT are in IOLS, except IOLS goes into more details. EDITED: in addition to what is already available online. there is no way an outdoors skills course can be done online as it requires you to demonstarte those skills.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

they're not official and I don't have one...yet but I know my lodge has one that is worn LCs who are Vigil.. It looks very nice and weighs alot.

good question, don't know. I do know that growing up, ALL advancement, rank, skill awards, and MBs were given out only at the quarterly CoH. Only exception was when you were invested in the troop, then you received Scout as well as the unit's necker, woggle, and totem.

From the 2002 Shooting Sports for CS book The shooting sports director must be at least 21 years old and hold a current National Camping School shooting sports directors card. National Camping School qualifications include BB, rifle, shotgun, muzzle-loading, and archery instruction, unless otherwise noted on the card. He or she is registered with the Boy Scouts of America.