Eagle92

Ditto everyone else saying give it to the pack for the Webelos to use. OR those new families who don't have camping gear. My pack has filed for federal surplus permit to buy gear for the pack. One item on the list is tents for the new families.

M, First welcome to the forums. Second Congrats on becoming a uniformed leader. Yep it's hard work, but it is SOOOOOOOOOOO worth it. In reference to uniforming. Once official always offical. that way BSA still maintains copyright or patent protection over older uniforms and prevents them from being abused. I wear a Centennial LS supplex shirt with the First Generation, older ones on sale now, Switchbacks. No problems, just a different shade of green as mentioned. In fact when the CUs came out, it was said that you could mix and match the CU items with the older Oscar De laRenta (ODL) items. Just make sure to get the red and white numbers and when trained the red and tan trained strip. Lots of confusion on that as national really screwed up with the release of the CUs. Took them 9 months before releasing the new uniform regs, and you still have literature coming out of national with the wrong stuff. best example is CM Fast Start with the CM wearing red numbers, and a tan and green trained strip.

My troop merged twice in its history. The first time, a troop was folding, and they sold the gear to use and just became a patrol within us. Their CO didn't want them so it was no biggie. Second time was more interesting. We had a new troop that was working with us until they culd branch out on their own. They were basically their own patrol within out troop, but they had their own CO, unit numbers on their sleeves, and necker. However we were having problems with our CO, and merger discussions were discussed and approved. The decision was to keep my units numbers as they had the tenure behind them (#1 reason I was told). It probably helped that we were an established troop with older scouts in place and were using the PM.

if memory serves, Webelos had a separate book that was used instead of Program Helps. That book was a set format, and could be recycled every year, as well as passed down.

Sometimes things a comment will set folks off. It happens. The key to remember is that #1 We're all scouters here so we are all for the best interests of the youth, and #2 the "virtual campfire" that is the internet with folks typing on keyboards is not the same as seing someone at a real campfire where we can not only hear their words, but also hear the tone of voice, and see the mannersism and gestures used to understand how they are saying something and what exactly they mean. Sarcasm is one example wher the words say one thing, but the toneof voice and getures give you the real meaning..

I think BP is write and this is getting a little out of hand. I think that we all agree that BSA policy is to allow women in leadership roles. I think that we all agree that COs do have the right to be more restrictive in choosing leaders, even if we do not like those reasons. I think that everyone agrees that parents to have the right to remove their sons form a troop that they find morally and ethically wrong. And I think that we can all agree that any parent that puts their own self interest before the best interest of their son is wrong.

Not a trick question, just confirming the information gathering activities of myself and others on the forums. Basically trying to confirm that my research skills learned in grad school, specifically library school, are adequate to keep up witht he constantly changing info coming out of national.

Seen this happen before and my advice is to NIP IT IN THE BUD NOW! ( caps for emphaisi b/c this is VERY serious). I've seen it where the CM allowed it for anyone, and parents were upset when council finally came in ands aid the underaged/wrong grade youth could not earn advancement and leave. I've seen it where an under aged youth "earned" AOL and tried to crossover into scouts, and no SM would accept the youth into their troop. Again council eventually got involved and it wasn't pretty. The only person being hurt is the underage sibling.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Moose, I think what 'Nut and others are trying to say is that mom needs to have a frank and honest discussion about the situation with her son. If the troop goes 110% against her beliefs, then yes she does have the right to move to another troop, and I would encourage that if that is indeed the case. BUT if it is soley based upon the fact that she cannot go camping with the troop, then she needs to step back and think about who the program is suppose to be for: THE BOYS (CAPS FOR EMPH.), and let her son make the decision, even as difficult as it may be for her. My troop had a COR/CC who did alot of work with the troop. To us scouts he was more of an ASM really as he went camping, did some mentoring for the older scouts, etc. Unfortunately my CO did not have a pack that his son could join, so his son went to a nearby church's pack. Went it came to the Webelos year, that den was invited to visit and go camping with us, which was declined. That den crossed over to that CO's troop. And son followed his friends into the other troop. Dad was upset, but realized that he was there for the boys, and that it was truly his son's decision, not his. Long story short, he stepped down as COR/CC, and became an ASM in the other troop. Sad day for us when it happened.

I think smaller than 6 per patrol is not effective. Grant you the original patrols at Brownsea were 5 man patrols, but BP wrote of patrols of 6-8 scouts.

That's how I am reading it. HMMM wonder if I need to add a Founder's bar to my Sea Scout uni since I'm a plankowner in the council's HA Sea base ship.

SctDad, I'll bring a copy of the CSDC standards this weekend to the meeting. Sorry I don't have the resCamp ones, although they are similar. Steak Stealer should have them.

SW, Out of curiosity, who is usually correct?

needed to add, when we did the maintenance, some items did use special archival solutions, others good old Brasso. Paint was an interesting challenge initially as they had to get samples from the navy, and had a local paint shop play with the colors until they got the exact two colors needed. The shop calls the colors Kidd Blue and Kidd Gray.

P, I hear you about that one. First time I encountered anti-Catholic bias in my life was as a DE trying to start a unit at my church. Church was willing to provide space and limited financial resources to get started, but couldn't get enough leadership to get it going. Local elementary school had the parents willing to be leaders, but no place to meet. Not encountering this bias before (grew in heavily Catholic New Orleans), I thought it would be a no brainer to use the parents at the school, and the church's facilities. Church didn't have a problem and welcomed it. The potential CM called me, cursed me out for suggesting the Catholic Church as a CO, and promptly decided the heck with Scouting since they let Catholics in.

J does make a good point. Sometimes you want it as is. And you see it a lot in museums. The museum I worked at, USS KIDD DD661, did maintained, i.e. polish the brass, paint the bulkheads, etc. in order to preserve her in her condition. Yes we did do some modifications to her, and it was noted, i.e. putting safety lines around the ship, the 1960s era depth charge rack, and the fiberglass captain's gig come to mind immediately come to mind, but it is noted as being restored and/ or not 1940s accurate. And the crew do "scrounge" for missing parts and items. Where ever they can find an artifact they go, to the point that they went to Turkey and got stuff of retired Turkish destroyers that were the Fletcher Class destroyers that the USA sold them.

TL, Thanks for the update. FWIW I believe, stress believe, the reason for the necker shortage is that I've heard they are shrinking the TC one, and enlarging the Webelos one. One car commercial I remember from the 80s and 90s was "BUY AMERICAN," maybe the BSA needs to review it's supply situation?

or just have everyone wear the red and whites as it goes with the three program uniforms in use by national, Cub Scout Blue, Boy Scout and leader khaki and green, and Venturing green and gray. I specifically leave out Sea Scouts as they no longer suppose to wear unit numbers, for whatever reason.

Richard, Having briefly, stressing BRIEFLY, worked in a museum with textile displays, and taken a Public History intro course in grad school, I can tell you that some modern cleaning processes can harm, for lack of a better word, artifacts. Also some historic cleaning processes can damage the artifacts. My suggestions are the following. 1) contact another museum that handles textiles for advice. They have probably dealt with this problem before and can advise. 2)contact a local university with a public history or museum studies concentration or major for advice. While the students may be learning, they have access to resources and their profs to get the info needed. I would also advise establishing a very good relationship with the university as it is also good for getting "free" labor in the form interns. One local museum did just that, and the interns designed and entire floor's worth of displays. Plan on going today and see it with the boys. I know that the local libraries and archives appreciated having me do free work. 3) Get a very good, museum studies quality book on preserving textiles. DO NOT USE A GENERAL PUBLIC BOOK OR HISTORIC BOOK ON CLEANING! Story I heard in grad school was the reason why a historic, leather parchment, historic document in a state's archives has a stain on it IS that the archivist responsible for restoring it used a solution to clean it ( sorry can't remember if it was a historic solution or modern day solution), and did not research the proper way of cleaning it. Long story short, that document has a very large stain on it from the attempted cleaning that can not be removed without destroying the document. GOOD LUCK

Lots of good opinions. Base hits on something, a highly trained leader will be sought after and attempted to be recruited into a unit. I know that even before my now TC son joined, I had 4 packs chasing after me, and one CM trying to talk me into starting a new pack if I wouldn't join his pack. Also being on the district committee, you should know what units would meet your son's needs and have them rated. Then let your son see which one fits him. I know that looking into packs, I had them ranked in my district, and had a list of packs I was planned on visiting with my son. I also know the concerns of CO selecting leaders. After joining my current pack, I discovered that the CO wants someone with youth experience in the movement. One candidate for the CM position was not selected b/c he had no youth experience. He served as an ACM instead.

While BSA does allow women in all leadership roles, Charter organizations can be more restrictive in who they want as a leader for any reason. If you weren't a Scout as youth, not a member of the congregation, not male, not female (one all female venturing crew I met), whatever reason they want give, they can refuse a volunteer. Also a CO can restrict who they want as youth members. they can say only members of their congregation, or specify a single gender in the case of Venturing units. Me personally I would have a chat with my son, discuss the situation, and let him decide. Who knows he may not want you involved, or he may get ticked off enough to say find another troop. If he does decide to stick with this troop, with your experience I say look for a district role. Who knows, you may be training that new ASM they were looking for

in ref to promoting camp, also contact the OA. or better yet, check out youtube to see if your camp posted vids there. you'ld be surprised with the legitimate scout videos on youtube.

Hmm interesting. I know there are more knowledable folks out there onthis topic, but I'll put my $.02 worht in. 1) Get a copy of the 3rd ed. SM HB, the 2 volume set that GBB wrote in the 30s, as it is not only comprehensive on this topic, but in scouting overall. While the syllabus for starting and training may be somewhat outdated in the technology and equipment department, the foundation of starting a scout-led troop is there and valid today as when GBB wrote it. 2) When workign with your scouts initially, use the Socratic method of asking questions and then letting them come up with the various answers. 3) Once a scout has mastered a skill, "empower" by having him teach the others that skill and signing off in the BSHB when he is satisfied they knwo the skill. I've found that the Scouts are tougher than some adults on judging their peers skills. 4) While you initially do lead the troop, over time and as you train them start backing off and lettign the scouts do the work. 5) resist the urge to jump in and correct things. Scouting is designed for scout to try new things, succeed or FAIL (caps for emphasis)in a safe environment that will allow them to learn form their mistakes. Some of the best lessons I learned in scouting came from mistakes. 6)When talking tothe scouts after a mistake, resist the urge to tell them how to improve. Instead use the Socratic Method of askign openended questiosn and let them come up with way to improve. Gives them ownership. 7) Find other SMS who truly use the PM and talk to them.

Like I said, it's a nationwide problem and it's stemming from suppliers. Some of it was underestimating the number of centennial items, i.e. rings, ranks, etc, needed. Some of it is location of suppliers, ie. on the other side of the Pacific.

nevermind found answer.(This message has been edited by eagle92)