Eagle92

Horizon, in my troop it was the SPL and PLs using the uniform method, not the adults. part of it was that uniform inspections were part of the interpatrol competition. part of it was unit pride. We were strict, but again we did make allowances for those you couldn't get a uniform right away.

WOW! just b/c so and so made Eagle at X age doesn't mean everyone else needs too. Maybe printing out a few of the replies here will help. And hopefully when the time comes, I will remember what I am saying now.

Acco, You mean 20 y.o. ASM? If that's the case, then yep 100% behind ya.

Who said BP was gay? I do believe he was married, had kids, and his wife destroyed a bunch of love letters he exchanged with a woman prior to his marriage. Also if memory served, he took a hard stance against homosexuality, and removed leaders accused of being homosexual.

T, Welcome to the forums. Also welcome to one of the most discussed topics in BSA, uniforms. Now my troop growing up was fairly strict when it came down to uniforming. SPL did a weekly uniform inspection as part of the meeting. We expected full uniforms, and for trips we have sent folks home to get uniform items that they forgot, i.e. troop necker, slide, and totem. While we had high standards, we also were reasonable, i.e. new scouts getting their uniforms, fokls who couldn't afford a new uniform off the back, etc. heck I never had a new uniform until I worked for supply in college and was issued one. I always used hand me downs and thrift store purchases. That said, the scout should WANT to be in full uniform, save his money, and buy it himslef. there's a section in the BSHB on this. I know my TC son helped pay for his uniform. Grant you all the money he gave went went into the 'Philmont jar" for a future trip there or another HA activity, but it gave him a sense of ownership.

Sbemis1 reminded me of one young man I encountered. Dad was an Eagle, and pushed, pushed, pushed. Son went to EVERYTHING, summer camp with the troop, provisional week at camp, winter camp, etc. over time son had 62 MBs. BUT son was not having fun, was a PITA, and eventually dropped out. If dad hadn't pushed, I bet he would have made Eagle. Another young man made Eagle. Dad wanted him to be Eagle b/c he was a 'Life for Life" But he allowed son to have fun. yes he encouraged son to get Eagle, dad reminded son how he was so close and didn't get Eagle, but let him move at his own pace. Son got Eagle at 16 and had fun in the troop getting it too.

In my one expereince with something similar to this situation,the Eagle Scout was sent home from camp, but did not have his membership revoked or Eagle taken away. When he reapplied for staff the next year, while the application was initially approved by the CD, when brought to the DSS's attention, he handled the situation the previous year, the staff application was rejected. As stated previously BSA handles youth differently from adults.

I also say that a discussion with mom is needed to back off and let son have fun. Tell you a tale of two Eagles. First Eagle was the son of an Eagle and Silver recipient. Dad pushed him to get into Scouting and get Eagle, there was no Silver at the time so no pressure on that one. Yep he got Eagle at 13 and dropped out. Didn't get back involved in Scouting until son got involved. Second Eagle was First's cousin. "Double Eagle" Uncle also pushed 2nd to get Eagle. 2nd was motivated, was Life at 13, but something happened. 2nd eagle got into the OA and had a little fun, not much at that point, but enough to remember and get back involved later. Then 2nd Eagle went through Brownsea 22, the NYLT of its time, and not only had fun, but picked up advance outdoor skills and leadership skills that are still used today. A year later he went to Jambo and did his first of three 50 milers in the Canadian wilderness, the highlight of his time as a youth. While job, school, and girls prevented him from attending many campouts after that trip, he attended all the meetings he could, taught what he knew, and started seeing those folks who were in his patrol and who hetaught and mentored pass him up. It really hit home 8 months before his 18th birthday, when he focused on the only 2 things preventing him from Eagle, Communications MB and Personal Management MB. He completed everything but his EBOR 5 days before turning 18. Even after turing 18 he remained active with the troop until getting a job as a DE in another state. While an adult he's worked summer camp staff (some of the best times he's ever had), did the European Camp Staff program (the second best hightlite as an adult to date), served in various district positions, and watched his son become a TC and Wolf ( the best highlites of my career to date). 18 years after getting Eagle, I'm still having a blast! So tell me, who has had the most fun? Who has the most adventures? Who has Scouting made the bigger impact on. Moral of the story, DON"T PUSH SCOUTS!( caps for emphasis)

Nick there are folks who think the Den Chief Service Award should have knot. And others who do not. This has been discussed before. Now if you are a Venturer, you can wear it until your 21, and you can also serve as a DC. One of my frineds/coworkers when I worked for national loved the fact that at camp we could wear teh venturing uniform with the rest of the staff b/c he could still wear his AOL and Eagle since he was under 21.

RS, And you do know that a certain ambidexstruous (sp) artist serving in the British Army designed that badge, right? I'll give ya a hint, he later became known as Baron Gilwell

I believe that boys do need role models of both genders. BUT they really do need male role models to model off of. I cannot put it into words, or describe it accurately, but only tell you the results form my den. Several of the single moms in my den were elated that their sons had a positive male role model as DL. Both parents and Cubs were relieved and glad that I am moving up with them to Wolves next year. One of the kids was not happy when I told him thaty when they become Webelos they will get a new leader, middle son becomes TC, but I joked and said, "By that time you'll be glad to get rid of me!"

In my expereince, 'Cub Mode" parents are best handled by the CC and SM. Now leaders, esp CS leaders in the know, can play a part in rehabing these parents, but IMHO it is really the CC and SM job. I say leaders can play a role in that #1 they can remind parents that their son needs to contact them and make arrangements as that is part of the scouting program. I say CS leaders in the know can play a part in that they should start talkign about the differences in BS ASAP. I know I have talked to my now Wolf parents about the differences. Webelos leaders probably haev the biggest role of all CS leaders in that its part of their job to prepare cubs for Scouts. I woudl add prep the parent stoo.

More thasn likely the COR doesn't attend discom mtgs. In my 14+ years on various discoms in 4 councils, only 1 did a COR actually attend, and he was also the Dis. Chair. Heck I didn't realize that the COR sits on the DisCom or Council Exec Board until recently, and I was a DE.

Kudu, Interesting, and cool form my perspective. I did a CS promotion ceremony last nite and explained why teh necker is now 3 sides and how it's is a symbolic represetnation of the 3 points of the CS Promise: Duty to God and country, duty to others, and... to obey the Law of the Pack.

You should be able to find it in the Webelos Book or BSHB as those are requirements for AOL and Tenderfoot respectively, if memory serves. In addition to what Crew said, I'm adding the following The two stars represent truth and knowledge The Scroll contains out motto "Be Prepared" and is turned upward like a smile to remind us that a "Scout is Cheerful" The knot underneath the scroll is to remind us of our slogan, "Do a Good Turn Daily" The Eagle and shield represent out country. Again this is all from memory so I may have left out a few things.

Nike, Don't give the aquatics staff of my old crew any ideas

Troop, Good question, answer is I don't know. BUT I do know that at one time, pre 1970s if memory serves, you could wear temppatches all over your red jac shirt. That is not allowed anymore, but I still see A) folks doing it ( which I don't condone) and B) a few oldtimers who had those patches on prior to the rule. Since it is obvious that those patches were put on prior to the rule, I have no problem with them keeping the patches on. So it may be a lodge tradition that the LC wears a beaded sash with the Legend that was started prior to the no patch except 50th and 60th anniversary rule. Traditions are supposed to be observed and preserved aren't they? That's why I mention it's been done for a long time, so that there may be an explanation there somewhere.

DWS, Like i said the wording is confusing.

Calico beat me to the punch. I forgot about the times that I've seen it used as a memory jogger/prop during the Ordeal Ceremony. Wish I had one to use as a prop when I played that part.

I personally like the patch, but would not wear it as it is not supposed to be worn on the OA sash. Only two items are authorized for wear on the OA sash, OA 50th and OA 60th Anniversary patches. No signatures, no Legends, nada. That said, my lodge does own a beaded Vigil sash with the Legend on it that is for the lodge chief to wear during his term of office IF a Vigil. This sash has been passed down for I don't know how long. I'm thinking 1973, as it looks like the 1973 LCs has it on in a photo on. Current LC isn't a Vigil and he can't wear it...yet.

I am looking at latest version of the medical form, the one dated 9/2009 and not the one that came out in early 2009 during the transition, and it does have body fat percentages listed in it as an option to the H/W limits. Verbage is confusing at first look, but it looks as if BSA now allows body fat percentage to be used as an alternate. Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or event in which emergency evacuation would take longer than 30 minutes by ground transportation will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the height/weight limits as documented in the table at the bottom of this page or if during a physical exam their health care provider determines that body fat percentage is outside the range of 10 to 31 percent for a woman or 2 to 25 percent for a man. Enforcing this limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory. (For healthy height/weight guidelines, visit www.cdc.gov.) Also Did anyone notice that only Parts A and C need to be updated annually, but nowhere on the form does it say Part B needs to be updated annually? Unless i'm missing something, and I know jambo is requiring a physical within a certain period prior to jambo, NOWHERE on the form is a physcial conducted by a MD, PA, FNP, et al is required every year.

concur with 2cub, no photos and no photograhy are 2 separate issues. While we cannot ban parents from coming, we can discourage them. Case in point, We had a mother who wanted to see her son's Ordeal Ceremony. Dad was NOT getting involved in that one , but asked me how we could discourage her. When I talked her, I simply told her that you know there are no safety issues since Vigil dad would be there, and at the time Vigil grandpaw was planing to attend, and that since she was a leader in the troop, she could be nominated for the OA, and that by seeing the ceremony before she went through the ceremony would lose its meaning. She chose not to attend.

Forgot to add links to uniform stuff http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/forms.aspx gives a bunch of documents http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/UniformEssentials_kwFINAL.pdf this file shows what all the uniforms, save sea scouts, are suppose to look like. There is still an error on the female leader sheet in that they do not include the the red and white number info for CS leaders, but hey at least they no longer mention female leaders needing a MB sash. http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/34048.pdf Leaders' inspection sheet. it's accurate. http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Male_Leader_Checklsit.pdf Male leader checklist, pretty accurate save the MB sash info. http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Female_Leader_Checklist.pdf Female leader checklist, pretty accurate save the MB sash info again. EDITED; sorry the CS books showing on the forms are the old ones.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Good question. IMHO, national screwed up royally by placing a pocket on the left sleeve, shrinking the trained strips, and having 2 sets of colors for unit numbers,and this is causing uniform problems. But I digress. Answer: There are now 2 "centennial" trained strips, the red and tan for CS leaders, and I am assuming Venturers and Venturing leaders (the "green shirts" as they are sometimes called in my district), that came out in late April/early May last year, and the tan and green ones for Boy Scouts and Scout leaders which came out in August 2008, and for about 8-9 months were the only trained strips available. CS leaders are suppose to wear teh tan and red "Centennial" strip, not the green and tan "Centennial" trained strip" Only difference between the old trained strip and the red and tan centennial trained strip is the size; they shrink it to fit on the sleeve pocket flap. As to mixing an matching items from the old uniforms and the new uniforms, lots of discussions and debates, and national hasn't really helped. You see when the CUs came out, there was no Insignia Guide, and as we now know, LOTS, stressing LOTS, of errors with the info that came out in reference to CS leaders. Now national did say you can mix and match uniform parts. BUT they didn't define uniform parts. Some said that insignia, loops, etc are not uniforms parts so that the CUs must have new insignia and loops, but you could wear a new shirt with old pants. And vice versa, i.e. old uniform shirts must have old insignia. HOWEVER you have those that say that insignia IS a uniform item, and the older items can be worn with the CUs, i.e red loops and numbers on a CU, and tan and green numbers and green loops on the old shirts. I am in that school of thought,i.e insignia can be mixed and match as they are uniform items. When I do join a troop again, I'll probably stick with red and whites on my old uniforms, and green and tans on my CU as I bought the trained strip and green and tan number a week prior to national coming out with the updated regs. for CS leaders. And as you can guess from my post, this is a pet peeve of mine.

greaves points out a good thing, use your resources to get older uniforms if you want. you'd be surprised at what you will find, not only shirts but patches too.