Eagle92

Sticky situation. You'll get lots of advice, and here's mine. #1 talk to the IH about the situation and get his opinion. While you can make the decision to remove the person on your own, the IH is the only person who can overrule you. #2 before you consider removing them, think about the entire situation, is it worth him being removed, esp. sicne you are in a leader crunch and you will be leaving soon. #3 If you do remove him, get a replacement in ASAP, him send him a certified letter saying thank you for your service btu they are no longer needed, and tell the parents As soon as he is notified. I would even make an announcement that so and so is stepping down and give a small token of appreciation for his services. I would also contact the council office and inform them that he is no longer aleader. #4 Another option would be to hand over everything to him. make him responsible for leader recruitment, program etc. Don't advise it, but it's an option. #5 FINALLY no matter what you do, as COR your #1 responsibility now is to recruit leaders to take over from those leaders who will be leaving soon AND get more folks in leader roles. The more folks involved, the easier the job.

In my neck of the woods, scouts is actually growing. There are lots of reasons why Scouting membership is "declining." My #1 reason for this is that national has gotten tough on those pros who manipulated the system to get membership numbers at any cost. We've all heard about several court cases on this matter, and may have even seen this up close and personal. I've heard of districts and councils where the membership has been majorly inflated in the past. So I believe the membership numbers are more accurate now than in th past. Another reason is that emphasis on quantity over quality in creating units. The 10 step process does work in creating a sustainable unit. But I know first hand the pressure by some in management on DEs to create units. yes it's important, but the needed to follow the process and create a unit that will not fold in a year does take time and needs to be followed because it does work. And as other have already mentioned sports and other extracurricular are a big competitor. Some of these programs out there practically demand that you do nothing else. And lots of folks have dreams of college scholarships and playing in the pros. Another factor IMHO is the urban scouting of the 1970s. Lots of adults have little to no experience of Scouting b/c national took the "Outing in ScOuting." They either think BSA offers the same boring, non-adventurous program of the 1970s , or they lack the confidence to do the outdoors, hence the need for mandatory BALOO and IOLS courses. Specific to CS, there is the attitude that " I don't have the time to do all this work with my son at home for him to get his badges." I lost 3 TCs to this mentality this past year. Hopefully the new program will take care of it.

I do not remember the exact words my old SM use to use, but basically he stated at COHs that First Class marked you as someone who has mastered all the basic scout skill, coul teach them to those under him, and was ready fro leadership within the troop. I agree many today see it only as halfway to Eagle.

Ll, Welcome to the forums. I must also echo SST's comments on what is the point of bringing these articles up? Now I applaud that you are trying to bring awareness of the importance of following SSD and SA, but the cases you are using no not apply or do not provide enough information for true comment. That said, I strongly believe in SA and SSD. But BSA sometimes do not follow the Buddy Boat portion of SSD, i.e. summer camp programs.

J, Problem is that you do have Scouters who have, "been there, done that, got the patch, and am using the things in my unit's program, and I am busy working with the troop, helping out the pack, and working on the DisCom. And you want me to go through training AGAIN" I sympathize with them. I am very busy with my family and in scouting. There are some courses I would love to recertify for, i.e. BSA Lifeguard, but I do not have the time and/or money to do. if BSA was to say all trainings need to be redone every 5 years, this could cause additional problems. Now if they allowed test out options like they do with IOLS for all trainings, including YPT, I can see the possibility of having recerts. But to be honest when I went through the outdoor portion of SM Fundamentals back in the day, I was bored to tears. Especially since I did Brownsea 22 four to five years earlier. Ditto BALOO as I learned only 1 thing new: a knot used to tie a waterbottle carrier.

Why I recommend going back to the older term Leadership Corps. They are suppose to be the older, more experienced scouts who are providing skills training to the younger scouts. They are leaders in the troop, despite not being a PL or SPL, who should be performing vital work to the troop.

Why I recommend going back to the older term Leadership Corps. They are suppose to be the older, more experienced scouts who are providing skills training to the younger scouts. They are leaders in the troop, despite not being a PL or SPL, who should be performing vital work to the troop.

Gunny, Part of the challenge in reference to WB and the attitude " I don't need anymore training," is that it was advertised at one time as the ultimate in training, and that once you completed WB, you were fully trained,and no other training was needed.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Ev, I must also respectfully disagree. Base is correct in that we are getting more and more leaders with 0 outdoor experience, and BALOO is just that, a basic how to course to ease new CS leaders into camping. grant you I did't learn anything new, except how tie a new knot, others in my class did. And to be honest my class was mostly classroom bound, but it still benefited newbys. I'll give you an example. Out of the 20 families that comprised my pack's TC dens this year, only 3 families had anyone with prior camping experience: 2 Eagle Scout Dads, and one dad who hunts. I gave two presentations on camping to the TCs and their partners: one prior to a fall camping trip, and again prior to a spring camp out. Both meetings were well attended, the kids loved the hands on aspect, and the parents wer taking lots of notes. In both cases, many families had new gear literally taking the gear out of the box at the campsite. While I would love a BALOO or IOLS option for CS leaders only, again only for CS leaders as BS and Venturing Leader NEED the IOLS skills, I would not get rid of BALOO at all. It is needed.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

One more post and that's it until someone else posts, I promise. I have a feeling that if you look at multi registered adults and their training status, SCOUTNET is looking at the DATES they are registered in the POR to see what training is needed. For example, if I am on the District Committee from 2004 to present, I need A, B or Z, C or Y training to be considered trained, and they have to be done within that period. IF I also become a CSDL, say 2010, then I will A, Z, Y training b/c that is the most current. I'm betting that SCOUTNET is not looking at the full training record of an individual for them to be considered trained. So A) an old fogey like me maybe in trouble since I have tons of older training under my belt, does CS Basic Leader training which trained you for ALL CS positions ring a bell, and SCOUTNET may not recognize me as trained despite these older traingings being in my recrods. And B) my old DE saying list yuorself as a student for new trainign courses is 100% dead on.

One more thing, Another previous DE, we run through alot of them in my district, advised me that whenever a new training course came out that I taught, go ahead and put my name in the student section of the training report as well so that it would be go into SCOUTNET. That way no matter what changes in training are made, i would always be considered "Trained."

Moose, Be advised that the 'grandfather clause" can be revised to "ungrandfather" them. I'll give you my example. I took Explorer Basic in 1996. When Venturing came out, I was 'grandfathered" as trained. 12 years later, I am no longer "grandfathered" as a trained Venturing leader, despite going through all the professional training at the '98 NLTC, aka All Hands Conference, that occured. As to your question, it's a good one, and I don't knwo the answer. I will say that I was told by my former DE that since I had taught IOLS training, I went through the old SM Fundamentals training, I would not need to go through the Webelos one. In looking at the two trainings, OWL and IOLS are nearly identical. Since my district is very small, and since do not have alarge cadre of trainers, we are just doing IOLS and inviting WDLs to that course.

This is what I was told by my previous DE when I asked him If I needed to take OWl, if I have IOLS, I'm good to go.

BALOO stands for Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation, and if run properly its a mix of paperwork and fun. The paperwork is tour permits, G2SS, organizing etc a trip for a pack. Fun stuff is being in the outdoors, cooking, etc. Again if done right. WeLOT, OWLS, etc are the various names Webelos Outdoor Leader training has been called over the years. It will be combined with IOLS in the near future. It is not mandatory, yet anyway, for WDLs to take Webelos camping as a den. We have not done one in my district ever, and this year we are inviting WDLs to IOLS in August.

Eng, True enough. But just as sports teaches folks life skills beyond the skills needed to play a game, so does Scouting. Not everyone has the skills and abilities to play sports or the desire to play sports. Just as not everyone has the skills and abilities or desire to do scouting. But both do serve a purpose.

Adam, SHHHHHH don't give national any ideas about BSA CPR certification. LOL Seriously though I doubt BSA will do CPR since it changes every 5 years. they have a hard enough problem releasing MB requirements on time. Then again BSA is getting into the WFA by the looks of it.

When I worked for supply, ladies had the choice of wearing the tan and green uniform, or the yellow and blue uniform at the main store. The Venturing uniform was not an option at the main store at all. However we were a pilot store for having supply run the summer camp trading post, and since the recommended uniform at camp was the Venturing uniform, those working summer camp could wear the Venturing uniform if we wanted. Coworker definately wanted to since he could wear his eagle on it still.

One of the nice things about being on the district or council committee, because you are not with a specific unit, you can wear any BSA uniform with the proper insignia. Nothing in the insignia guide states you must wear a tan and green uniform if you are those positions. I've seen Pros in Venturing unis and 1 in a Sea Scout uniform.

Short, I agree, lets call it Leadership Corps once again. OGE, From 1989 to 1998, the older scout patrol that was once called the Leadership Corps was renamed the Venture Crew. When Venturing came out in 1998, the Venture Crew was renamed Venture Patrol, and the new program Venturing called their units Crews. At least as early as May 1998,if not earlier, national was informed that this would lead to considerable confusion. I know because I was one of the many DEs complaining to the national director of Venturing at PDL-1 about the confusion that would ensue if the use the "Crew" designation that was already in use. Now I understand why they chose Venturing: that is what other countries call their 14-21 yo program. So that's why you got old fogeys like myself still saying "Venture Crews" instead of Venturing Crews.

A few ideas to help since I am a one man library show ata hospital #1 Check with the local library to see they may have old check out cards and book pockets. Most libraries do not use them anymore. If they don't, try DEMCO and get the cards and pockets for checkout. they are relatively inexpensive. #2 Get labels and put numbers on the books, as well as troop info in case they get lost. the numbers will make it easier to discover which ones are checked out, missing etc. #3 in referefne to the older MBPs, again don't throw away as some, if not most, of the info is still viable. Usually onthe requirements have changed so... #4... get Requirment books. #5 Use an index card box to keep accountof the books checked out. Yep I have a handy dandy computer system, but I also have two index card boxes: one for checkout, and one for overdues. #6 Another method of checkout we use for journals is a binde with a simple checkout/checkin log. PM me if you have any questions.

Jeff, Unless the adult is teaching something so advanced that only they could teach it, i wouldlet the scouts teach and not the adults. I learned all of my basic scouting skills from youth, as well as some advance stuff like pioneering, canoeing, etc. Having the youth teach #1 is part of the patrol method #2 Keeps the older scouts' skills sharp, and #3 gives a sense of ownership to the older scouts. As for coffee, yep you can never have enough. Anyone try the Starbuck VIA that Scouter did a write up on? I personally like my 1 cup brewer I got for myself.

Just remember, dsitrct committee folks can wear ANY uniform they want to wear with the correct insignia. Heck my old Sea Scout uniform has the two stars of a district/council level on it and I have worn it on occassion doing district work. My wife also hates the new uniform, as well as the yellow and blue. She loves the old Venturing uniform, as well as her vintage 1950s Den Mother dress I got off ebay for her.

Stosh, The "Wearing them flat like the original is rather dorky. So why wear the campaign hat like a dork?" is fighting words Seriously though I got 2 of those one that is very, very field expereinced,i.e. bent out of shape, faded, stained, and shot at by Germans (don't ask, let's just say I now know why we won WWII )and one that is in pristine shape stored in a press for formal occasions. there's a time and a place for the pristine look. Not many, but a few. As for your Expedition hat being two toned, must've come form the same dye lot mine did as I have the same problem.

Gary, One point of clarification. Varsity Scouts orginally focused only on sports, not HA activities. Venture Crews, now called Venture Patrols were created for HA. The HA pins that can now be worn on the Varsity/Venture letter were orignally restricted to Venture Crews only, just as the sports pins were restricted to Varsity Teams only. Sometime around '95 or '96, those restrictions were removed, and Varsity teams could work onthe HA pins, and Venture Crews could work on Sports Pins. On the BS side the pins were not popular, as evidenced by all the questions I got about the letter and pins because of a HA program I created based upon the pinsat camp. Also I never sold one when I worked for supply. And see that the Varsity/Venture letter is once again called the Varsity letter in the IG. From '84- 89 it was called the varsity letter, then '89- recently the IG had it labeled as the Varsity-Venture letter.

Kudu, Maybe it was just me, or maybe how the troop handled it, but i an d others viewed advancement as personal challenges to be met. Yes some of the SAs could be boring and two important ones were classroom type situations, i.e. Citizenship and First Aid come to mind (although FA made us think and use resources we found or had on our trips, at least the way it was taught to use by the older scouts), but we were a hiking and camping troop, and those basic outdoor skills were used every month save December with our hikes and campouts. Now I do like the idea of a First Class trip, but I would modify that from with another 2nd Class Scout, to with a minimum of 4 scouts from your patrol. I was taught you always want a minimum of 4 on any trip, and I think addign patrol would encourge patrol method a little more. Just my $.02 worht.