Eagle92

'2000 If you luck up some of mt posts, esp to another up and coming DE who I happend to have worked with long ago as I discovered, you will hear the good and the bad about the profession The hours are long. The focus is the 3 Ms: Money Membership, and Manpower. It is detrimental to family life, and that has caused lots of folks to leave the profession. My wife, whom I met, dated, and married while a DE, gave me an ultimatum in less than 3 months of marriage: her or the job. yes it did cause that much stress on my marriage. heck we had to shorten the honeymoon b/c of a meeting, and I was sent to camp the week after the wedding, and no that was done last minute to me. You may also have some "interesting" bosses to work for, to put it mildly. If you got a good friendship with a DE ask him to check out the SE, DFS, and FDs in the council you are going to. You know you are in trouble when another professional tells you to "watch your back" with a DFS and SE. had that happen to me, and I wish I would have heeded the advice to run for my life.

Are they the Poly Wool ones? I know that the poly wool pants didn't have snaps, but buttons instead. I am assuming the shorts were the same way. EDITED: and I think they were black, plain buttons with no BSA insignia on them. And it sound like you got a pair of them.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

The scout is responsible for their own advancement, not the leaders. The goal of the PLC is to provide a program that is exciting, adventurous, fun, and provides the opportunity to advance. Advancement is not the focus of Scouting. Adults' jobs, IMHO, is to mentor and advise the older scouts. Older scouts should do the mentoring and advising to the younger ones.

Depends on the staff and the CD. At one of the camps I went to and worked at the standards were high, the staff excellent, and when you passed the class, you really passed it: no badges were given away, even those that could be done in one's free time like pottery. Another camp I went to did have some challenges. CD and PD began a program to change it. Yes it took time to fix, but the camp does have a good rep now.

J, Don't worry about it as it isn't a big deal. I sdo know that they offered training that anyone missed Saturday and Sunday afternoon. Hmm thinking about it, there is no way to do SMF, or SM Spec and IOLS, in an afternoon, so it must have been just Fast Starts. So why did my DFS tell me I had to do CSLBT?

One other thing if you haven't done so already. I would shadow a DE if possible.

Silas, Not a problem. Here are some quotes below. The link is http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940 and it may not be working, as I tried it at work and it didn't. Ciould be filters though. "Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us. "...when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family... For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer..." (Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca). When I first heard about this, and saw the interview, I was shocked. While it is focused on the Hispanic community specifically, ti will have recpercussions throughout scouting. Scouting is a worldwide movement, with member associations throught the Hispanic world. Outing is Scouting no matter where you go.

Jhankins said it all. And I can concur that it is a demanding job that gives you lots of expereince in a variety of areas. i had several friends leave the profession and double, and in one case triple, their salaries b/c of the experience gained as a DE. Heck my current boss is surprised at some of the things I did working as a DE and for national supply. But I do have one question for her. When I went through PDL-1 in 1998, I was told I had to go through all the basic trainings prior to PDL-1, not just the Fast Starts, has this changed? Luckily I had SMF and EBLT prior to being a DE, so all I had to do was take CSLBT.

LL, Nope you are not an idiot, just an experienced scouter coming back to the fold and not seeing some of the changes. One problem is that the CSE is on the record stating that camping is not as important as it use to be. I'll use 2 GBB quotes, since he is the man who saved Scouting in the later 1970s to show otherwise 1. " Outing is three-fourths of Scouting." and #2 ' Outing is Scouting When the top person no longer sees the importance of one of the foundations of the movement, to paraphrase one Eagle Scout, "Dallas, we have a problem." Another problem is that the Patrol Method, the other foundation in Scouting is under attack. Part of that is training, youth and adults both are not getting enough of it. And if we add the parent factor as the CSE wants to add on campouts, per the record mentioned above, I see parents butting in and completely destroying the PM. Heck I know of parents who want their sons in sn adult led troops to avoid the "anachy" of a youth led program. What they don't realize, or want to realize, is that that's part of the leanrign process.

Looks like one council is still using the old course HEHEHEHEHEHE

Try an preorder as much as possible as they will run out at the event of some items. Plusa that cuts down on money to carry. When I went to '95 WSJ, I tried to preorder, but b/c of the situation I was in, replacing someone last minute, was unable to. As for spending money, I went to 89 Jambo and Canada with $300. Wish I would have brought more. I recommend always have some cash on hand. I gave the "troop bank" all my money to hold until needed, and when I did need it, the "bank" was on "holiday"

In my limited contact with national folks and seeing folks move up to national, the overall impression I got is that these folks move up from the SE ranks, only getting folks form the outside when absolutely needed. Case in point, the guy who was originally put tin charge of SCOUTNET in '97 or '98 had NO IT expereince. non, zip, nil. And once they get there, they really loose contact with the little folks.in the trenches.

LLbob, FYI on BP scouts, they have been around for a long time, since the 1960s/70s if memory serves. Ran into 1 troop of them in the UK back in 1995 and they were great. Kudu would love theme except for the 300' rule as the cam couldn't accommodate that. Lots of basic traditional scoutcraft. Also ran into another troop, that while part of the Scout Association, were also old school. They were a blast to hang around, knew how treat a dinner guest who was allergic to what they were eating (they ran to the local market and got me a steak last minute when they found out!), and introduced me to Bitters. Again Kudu would love, save the 300', as the scouts actually made a pioneering fence, tower, and gateway with scout staves to mark the troop's campsite, and individual patrols areas. Really sharp groups both.

Base, Understand and yep it is almost cult like. In my neck of the woods, a bunch of the churches either receated their own league sport program, or adopted one that is played amongst themselves.

Gotta make them as most folks, except a few old fogeys like myself and others here, know what they are. Real easy to make and handy to. All you need is 8-9 feet of manilla rope, a wooden toggle, and a knowledge of splices, specifically round and eye.

Base, Don't know if this counts as Mega church youthgroup or not, but around my neck of the woods, a lot of churches participate in Church league sports, i.e. flag football, basketball, soccer, and baseball.

2Cub, Based upon my limited expereince with parents, save trained leaders of course, and siblings on a Boy Scout camp out (2 such events in a 12 year period), the answer is HECK NO! The first time parents and sibs came along, it was a complete and total waste of an entire weekend, and a long one at that (Thanksgiving day weekend trip). A 14 hour round trip drive was ruined b/c some parents thought their sons couldn't handle a little ran and/or didn't want to deal with their younger kids complaining that the Scouts were doing the hike and they were not. PLUS one sibling caused extensive water damage to the facility we were in by leqaving water running on the first floor that flooded that and the basement. Long story short a year of planning and a 14 hour drive to the event completely wasted. PLC said no more family trips. The second time we did a family trip, only 2 remembered what happened the last time as it was 6 or 7 years later. New SM, new member of the PLC. One committee member and myself were the only one with reservations. Good news was that most of the youth were camping in tents. bad news was that we had a bunch of popups and 1 RV for the family members

LlBob, While your heart is in the right place, the use of articles that are not related to scouting activities does not do your argument any service. Further it is alienating the rest of us. may I make a suggestion for everyone to look at the following document http://srbsa.org/public/services/program/camping/drowning.pdf It has the number of drownings and near drownings at BSA activities from 1981 to 2007. It looks as medical conditions, heart attacks and asthma, were some of the leading causes.

I think that those leaders who continue to provide a traditional program, will survive. They may not be the largest, may not have the most Eagle, etc, etc. BUT they will have the best Scouts. Case in point is the one patrol troop that has no feeder and is in a very small town. Their old SM was "old school" and the troop reflected traditional scouting. Kudu would be proud of them. They aren't the largest, they don't produce 8 Eagles a year, But their PL runs the patrol, their scouts are knowledgeable on traditional skills, and they are not afraid to take on challenges.

Word of mouth is the best way to recruit older, non cub boys into the program. One caveat, make sure the meeting they first attend is not a boring one I recruited a friend's older brother, but the meeting was a planning one for a trip he couldn't go on, i.e. location, history, who's hiking in which group, etc, so it was boring to him. School nite type activities didn't work for me. If folks were interested, they would come up and talk b/c of the peer pressure. And I had a nice camping set up to attract folks.

Concur with DYB, depending upon sport and age, there can be up to 4 different leagues in one sport, andas mentioned earlier, the coaches wan thtem to "specialize" in one sport. I heard one parents getting so into a particular sport for their kid that when the son wasn't accepted into the specific league locally, she drove him 55 minutes away to have him try out for that team. I hope the practice is longer than the round trip drive.

Lisa, Kudu can correct me if I'm wrong, but under the old GBB WB program the PM was stressed a lot more AND implemented. At least that is what I'm told and read. And if it's anything like the BA 22 that I went through, lots of emphasis on scout craft, lots of activities with the patrols on their own, and leadership classes mixed in for good measure. The JLT course I staffed, while good on leadership classes, didn't have as much emphasis on scoutcraft and PM as BA 22. I'll give you an example, with BA22 we went backpacking as part of the program to one of the areas. Wen tot a second area and dropped off our packs, carrying the bare minimum (water, food, and survival kits were were told to prep in advance) and off we went. During the entire wilderness survival portion, we saw the PGs 1 time, and that was to warn us that sever rain was headed our way so make sure we really waterproof shelters ( " Guys we got good news and we got bad news...."). While the Cocky Curlews were not the best patrol in the troop, we were a patrol, we dealt with patrol problems, had very limited contact with adults, and did a lot on our own.

Ordering pizza on a campout out?!?!?!?!?!?!? What the heck and why didn't the SPL say no dice top that one? MAKING Pizza in a Dutch oven on a campout.... MMMMMMMMMMMMM

Kudu, What about me, I think replacing the patrol method with EDGE is stupid too. Seriously though EDGE is not a leadership method, it's a teaching method that has been around a very long time, ie the old Tell, Show, Do of old. It is a method to be used by the PL and other leaders to TEACH their patrol and troop mates. All it is is JARGON, and I wish that the term "EDGE" was not in the requirements, but rather teach skills to other scouts.

While every council has their own recruiting periods, there are two dates that EVERY council uses for membership purposes. The first and most important is December 31st and that is the year end membership stat and is used in calculating Quality Districts and Councils. Second is June 3oth, which is the mid year membership stat, and that is counted towards Chief Scout Executive's Winner Circle. Both are very big deals to pros.