Eagle92

Base, Having worked staff at large scouting events, ok not as large as Jambo but with 12000+, I don't have a problem with YOUTH staff participating in a contest on stage for several reasons, if their expereinces haev been remotely close to mine. They have been busting butt before the contingents arrived, during the week, and will be there tearing down after contingents leave. I see it as a reward for all their hard work. Also there is a little more "control" using staff rather than a someone random fromthe audience. I've learned the hard way that having folks preselected and prepared for the show is a lot easier than doign random selctions at an event. it eats up time, can cause problems with nervous scouts, equipment, etc, AND can prevent some heartache when you picked all you can and there are folks still wanting to participate.

Don't knwo what Acco said, so if I repeat bear with me. 1) The troop is truly boy led. I like PLs doing their job, SPLs doing theirs, and the older scouts helping the younger scouts. PLs and SPLs handled the problems, excepting very serious issues (which rarely happened), and it was a controled, safe environement for scouts to try new things, succeed or fail, and grow physically, mentally, and morally. 2) The troop is in the outdoors at least once a month. Yes I know patrols can camp on their own, and in some cases (patrols of all experienced scouts) wouldn't have a problem with it. But every scout should be in the outdoors at least once a month. 3) The troop's program has something for all levels of scouts. Growing up we had lots of older scouts still involved becasue A) we instilled in them that it was their turn to help the younger scouts just as older scouts helped them and B) the way our troop campouts were, they had opportunities to do their own thing. Sure there were times when they needed to help teach skills to the younger guys, but there was ample opportunties for them to to their own thing. this kept the older guys involved. 4) A great SM and CC who knows how the program is suppose to work, can mentor the older scouts as needed, and keep the adults, especially new adult leaders , from interfering. I know that when I turned 18, I still acted like an ASPL at times and not an ASM. Had lots of good mentoring from my SM and others. More later as i can think

NEPA, YOU GUYS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB! And yes I am shouting at ya Seriously I loved being able to expereicne part of the jambo from my home, and loved the fact you had the arena show with Mike Rowe (MIKE ROWE FOR CHIEF SCOUT!) so that my 6y.o. CS could listen in. he now wants to got to a Jamboree.

Beavah reminded me that the Eckerd Foundation, an organization that deals with juvenile delinquents and has a "hoods in da woods" program did partner with some councils to try and use elements of Scouting to help the kids. Also New Orleans use to have a program called "Sheriffs' Camp" where several parish sheriffs took at risk youth camping in an attempt to get them on the right path. So yes I do know of folks who were convicted juveniles in the BSA. Soemtimes Scouting helped, other times it didn't.

Thomas, Your comment on 7 and 8 graders as SPLs concerns me, what happens with your older scouts? Is there anyone over 14 in the troop?

Buddy tags are nto normally stocked in a scout shop. They need to be ordered through national supply and this is the item number 01595. I bet if you contact the scout shop now, they may have the returns from summer camp in stock.

I also have to agree: both sides have not acted courteously in the past 10 years. I still remember the Scouts getting booed at a Democratic convention. I remember the off color jokes I heard about a sitting president. And I can go on. While we may disagree in politics, we MUST set the example to our youth. And it is getting harder to counter the negativity and discourtesy they are seeing in all facets of media. We got an uphill battle to fight in reference to courtesy. On another note, Mike Rowe was AWESOME! My 6 yo even liked his speech. MUST GET HIS SCOUT T_SHIRT

Piping the Side is what it's called. Saw the photos of the USCG admiral on the FB page. manI wish I would have been there.

CBell, You worked at Camp V Bar too. here's my top 5 list. 1) Taken a 64 mile canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness. 2) Taken a training course that not only reinforced my Scoutcraft skills, but enabled me to better teach those skills to younger scouts. 3) Spend 3 months in British Scout camps as part of the European Camp Staff Program. 4)Met my wife. 5)Be comfortable taking my five year old out camping when invited by a pack we were looking at.

Welcome to the forums and to the transition to Boy Scouts. It is a VERY difficult transition to make in my expereince of watching CS leaders move up. First thing is that needs to be done is talk to the leaders about letting the youth lead. THEY should be doing the work, i.e. planning, organizing, executing, events. What are the Life scouts doing? In reference to camping, DO NOT DO BACKYARD CAMPING!!!!!!!! (emphasis)Scouts want excitement and adventure, and backyard camping doesn't cut it. Alsoit is too easy to go inside and get things they forgot, i.e. flashlight, soap for cooking gear, etc,. They need to get away and do the camping. In reference to advancement, I am a big proponent of having youth sign off on advancement. Growing up, First Class Scouts, and a few 2nd Class Scouts approved by the SPL and SM, and above could sign off on T-2-1 requirements. Advancement came naturally, and it was just a matter of the Scout being reminded byt he instructor that he needs to bring his book for signing. An active troop usually have the scouts getting 1st Class in 12-18 months. Good luck.

I watched part of the show live last nite. I found it on the web an showed Wolf cub son the Mike Rowe segment. WOW! Mike Rowe for Chief Scout!

Base, For whatever reason, kids wants advancement, parents pushing kids, camps knowing that in order to compete for campers that have to offer lots of MBs, etc, it seems as if the days of scouts having fun and doing their own thing while working on MBs is starting to come to an end. I know that when I worked supply and was part of a summer camp pilot, my boss could not understand why we had to keep the store open while "all the scouts are in classes." I had to tell her constantly for 2 years that yes classes did go on during the day, Scouts didn't have to take a class every session. I won that argument, although frustrating to repeat myself almost every week for two summers. She couldn't understand why scouts would have free time.

Thanks Kudu for the info. I agree with you 100% that an SPL does need time as a PL.

Kudu, Not trying to change the subject, but I am interested as I am used to troop wide elections for SPL. When the PLC decides, is it among one of the PLs or an "outsider" i.e. a scout not on the PLC. If it's one of the PLC members, do the patrol hold another election for PL, or does the APL move up?(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Pritch, Welcome to the forums. In reference to fixed bladed knives, the BSA does not have a prohibition against them, they are just "strongly discouraged." Now some states and municipalities do have laws against them, i.e. it is illegal to have a fixed blade knife in Chapel Hill, NC.

Me personally, I think a troop with 2 or more patrols needs an SPL. Why for a variety of reasons. First the SPL acts as a mentor and counselor to the PLs. I know that is technically the SM's job, but in the troop growing up, that is how it worked out: older scouts mentored and trained the younger ones. Second the SPLs keep the PLs in line, on time, etc in reference to program. SPL runs the program that the PLC decides upon, and ensures it is implemented. Third, the SPL, having a little more experience (hopefully) can advise and comment on the programming that the PLC want to do, i.e. giving recommendations, looking at additional activities available at a location, etc. Finally when it comes to the PLC voting, in an even numbere of patrols, the SPL is the tie breaker.

Gary, Playing Devil's Advocate, so bear with me, but wear does it say that an SM can NOT remove a SPL? I think the key to remember is that we cannot be so bogged down into rules and regulations, that common sense cannot be used. There is a time and a place for everything. Yes the role of a SM is to counsel and mentor, but he is ultimately responsible for the safety and well being of the troop, both youth and adults, and not just the SPL.

In ref to the supplies, I'd email everyone politely stating that since you resigned your position, you no longer want to be responsible for storing the unit's gear. Then state that the time and place that you will be dropping off everything, possibly at the meeting location. If that doesn't work, then go ahead and drop it off at the new CM's house.

I'm also in the no soap ever camp. All you need to do is scrub the heck out of it with some room temp water, then scrub some more, THEN use boiling hot water to sanitize.

BP, Rub it in why don't ya ( in ref to the being at jambo .)

'dad, Trust me there is a BIG (emph) difference between reading it, and hearing him. He told that story at NLTC,a dn I honestly that with all he has done, Eagle Scout, Vigil honor, Dist. Eagle Sct., president of NESA, etc, that that one camping expereince with his son is the highlight of his scouting expereinces.

'dad, YEP. I woulod also add that ot only should they hold flags, but also wear their uniforms.

Kudu, Forgot to add don't knock all of us Wolf Den Leaders as some of us are chomping at the bit for the day for our sons to be old enough to get into scouts, so that we can sit around the leader's campsite, drinking coffee, and letting the PLs and SPLs deal with things. E92 PS that is a funny one though! PPS, forgot to add in my previous post that although elections for PL and SPL, were held every six months, basically when scouts decided to stay in their patrol or move to another, usually everyone stayed in their patrols, and the PL was usually reelected until he moved up to the LC. In fact I cannot think of a time when a PL wasn't reelected. As for SPLs, those who ran for reelction would usually win, while some decided to step down due to other commitments, usually school. Once you were SPL, you were in the LC so you did have a role to play in the troop.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Kudu, This may make you mad, as my troop's method does not seem to coincide 100% with BP, but here's how it went and it did work out beautifully for us. Patrols elected their own PLs. In order to be an SPL, you had to be First Class or above, showing that you have mastered the basic scouting skills, and have been a PL for at least 6 months. If you met the criteria, then you could run in a troop wide election. Most of the time SPL was Star or Life. Yes the SPL would pick the ASPL, and other troop level leaders, BUT he was limited to selecting those in the Leadership Corps. To be in the LC, you had to be First Class or higher, been a PL for at least 6 months, with most being PL for a year or more, and be voted in by the the LC. At that stage of their scouting careers there was little to no drama within the LC, and they were able to work with each other. yes they got to sit in on the PLC and they did vote, but for the most part those that did attend the planning conference (not every LC member did attend) usually offered advice and guidance to the PLs. The LC didn't throw their weight around, and were really dedicated to working with the younger scouts more than anything. Yes they did their own thing, i.e. camped as a separate patrol, did LC specific activities on some trips, etc. I think that is why we did have such an active group of older scouts compared to other units, we used them, kept them involved, and provided some challenges to them. yes we had a good number of Eagles but we had folks who didn't really care about advancement, and just wanted to have fun in the outdoors, and my troop provided that.

Kudu, No disrespect, but I think it was GBB who thought up the concept of an SPL, and BP agreed with it. I personally like the concept of the SPL and an older scout patrol, in my day called the Leadership Corps,whose job was to work with the PLs in teaching the younger scouts, while doing their own program at the appropriate times. That's how it was done in my troop growing up, and we had a good cadre of 15-17 year olds active in the troop. Also by having the older scouts working with the younger ones, it kept the older scouts skills sharp, provided examples to the younger scouts, and allowed the older scouts to mentor and train the younger scouts. With a few exceptions, i.e. someone realizing they do not have the time committment for the job, I think there may be other problems if someone not is not willing to be an SPL, ASPL, PL, etc.