Eagle92

You can get 3-5 years of wear with the blue uniform, just got to get it big. As mentioned once a Webelos gets a BS uniform, my recomendation is to wear the blue as long as possible, a few things converts it to a BS uniform. I know my sons karate uniform was $80, and that was 2 items. Add another $40 for 2 silk screened t-shirts,a nd another $10 for the headband. The when another $75 for his test to get his belt. his uniforms will have costed $210.00

Wing, I hear ya! Had a similar problem last year. My solution was to recruit a DC. I am working with him so that he is running stuff and I'm "in the rear with the gear." It is a slow process, but it is coming along.

Well I had that chat. Lots to think and talk about. I am going to offer help try and recruit, but need to focus on being a DL. If things don't improve by May, I'll be switching packs. I

Well I've talked to the wife, and she want to keep it as if. The district and council stuff at the current time do not take me away from my sons. But after tonites pack meeting, WOW. Only advancement awarded was the stuff I purchased out of pocket b/c I did not hear back from folks if I needed to pick up anything (I work in a neighboring council and can pick up things my council is out of). I bought only for my den b/c that is what I knew about. I don't know what is going on. I knew I was going to miss the leaders' meeting yesterday due to family commitments, but only 2 people showed up, no one had the key, and nothing was done. We have a campout in 2 weeks, and we do not have a cook crew set up, nor did we have a fee collection so we could pay as a pack. Wife and I are going to have a chat tonite.

Nowhere in any HB does it say you cannot wear vintage uniforms.

OGE and Beav, Sorry if it sounded harsh, wasn't my intent. I was actually agreeing with Beav that the CO can set the requirements. But as mentioned it did sound like the CO is doing this after the fact, which can hurt the scouts. But as mentioned we don't have details.

Good point Beav, but it sounded like an after the fact thing, i.e. "Oh you took the troop out camping this past weekend, well it can't count 'cause you aren't trained."

Could it be considered PATROL CAMPING, with the leaders practicing for IOLS?

DG, That's part of the problem, I've been involved with both since before he joined CSs. So far it's worked out very well as I've been working in the background for most things, and taking center stage, literally and figuratively, only at campfire programs when A) mom is also there or B) He is so tired that I know he won't be a typllical 6 year old with other leaders Here's the funny thing, with the exception of CSDC, the other responsibilities do not interfere with me and my son b/c of me being in the background. I do training, I help plan events, recruit for events, and help with set up when I can. I am not running anything when I'm with my son, except the cmapfires. But as a CM, I do not know how it will work out. Plus I need to be with middle child and youngest when they are Tigers.

Emb, I was upset as a 15yo scout who,literally waiting to board the plan to got to Canada was told that national removed the requirements for the WC. In additional international activity patch, necker, slide, and hat, which do not have any formal requriements as I discovered, they now have the International Youth Exchange Emblem and these requirements: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/International/Highlights/22-323.aspx For Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and Unit Leaders) Participate for at least five days in a group exchange program, visiting a Scout group in another nation.* This visit can involve home hospitality, joint camping with the host group, or another joint activity. Participate for at least five days in a group exchange program hosting a Scout group from another nation in your community.* This can involve home hospitality, joint camping with the guest group, or another joint activity. Plan activities, both as guest and as host, that will provide opportunities to learn about each other's country, culture, and Scout association. Exchange groups must be at least patrols or crews of six to eight Scouts or Venturers with two adult leaders. All preceding requirements must be completed by a group to qualify for recognition. An individual in the group must complete all requirements to qualify. When requirements are completed, the International Youth Exchange emblem, No. M-214, may be ordered by the unit leader from the International Division, Boy Scouts of America. The emblem is worn as a temporary insignia on the right uniform shirt pocket. *Under special circumstances, the exchange can be with a non-Scout youth group from a nation without a recognized Scout program, if approved in advance by the International Division. Certification of an individual for the International Youth Exchange emblem is the responsibility of the unit leader or a designated representative. Emblems, No. ID-214, are ordered from the International Division by the unit representative. Cost is $3.00 per emblem plus your state sales tax. Please make check payable to Boy Scouts of America:

I am in a big dilemma, and I have no idea of what to do. Our current CM will be leaving in December when his son moves up. We started the process of looking for a new CM last year, and I turned it down for several reasons: 1) told the wife I would be the DL for the first 2 years of each son I (they are spaced out about 2 years), 2) I'm involved on the district committee, esp CSDC, 3) I am also involved on the council's CS outdoor committee, and 4) at the time the pack was running smoothly with lots of parental support so whoever took over as CM would have support. We found someone willing to do it and i was off the hook. But we just found out that after May, the family is moving. So we are back to square one. Reasons 1-3 are the same. #1 above is the most important one as family does come first. But in my district, I am the only CS leader on the committee, and sometimes CSs is an afterthought. Ditto on the council level. At times it feels like if I on the district level or others like Scoutdad on the council level don't mention CSs in planning, it gets overlooked. But 4 has changed. For whatever reason, our parents are not as supportive as before. Also their is some internal dissent among the leaders. I hate to see the pack starting to fall apart, and I don't know what to do. I've tried to focus on my den, but it is hard to do when the pack is having challenges.

Kudu, Thanks making me relive the nitemare that is putting up 10 man marquee tent, LOL. Yep in Europe the patrol tent is popular. In some of the tents thet do almost everything inside them, including cooking! That said I admit I got a 7 man "condo" and I hate that sucker. BUT it was a Valentine's gift from the wife, and the only tent she will camp in when the kids are with us. Otherwise I love my 11yo 2man backpackign tent.

My advice with 11 and 12yos is to put them with a Wolf Den. We got a 13yo Star who is the size of a Webelos still, and he is haveing some "challenges" getting the respect of the older Cubs. Heck he was having some difficulty with some of the Wolves, and TCs ( don't ask), until he started showing his camp gear and talking about camping tricks to be comfortable for an upcoming trip. that impressed them. Now a few are following him around like puppies. My only real concern with him is his confidence in teaching. I've seen him in action and he knows his scoutcraft. As I told him and his SM/dad I would have no problem going on a backcountry trip with him and him having to take care of me during an emegency. But he definately needs to work on his teaching skills. Then again I did know that when I asked for him, and one of my goals is to work with him on that. Kudu may hate me for this,but here it goes: I think I will go ever EDGE with him and show him how it can be used to teach younger scouts outdoor skills. IMHO, all EDGE is the latest incarnation of the old TELL, SHOW, DO of when I was a scout.

NC, Guide to Inductions. I forgot it's available online, and checked there when I had a chance.

Ok Guide to inductions don't have the info I'm looking for, but national OA site helps http://www.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/ After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. (emphasis added) The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps. HA bases do have national standards that they must meet in order to be accredited. So I would consider it safe to say they count as long term camping. Also this site has some more info http://www.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-52.htm Q/A: Camping Requirement Interpretation Q: Who decides what camping activities qualify for the camping requirement needed for election to the Order of the Arrow? A: With the camping requirement, as with all other eligibility requirements, it is the Unit Leader's job to interpret whether a Scout has met the requirement. As stated in the Guide for Officers and Advisers (#34997A, 1999 revision, page 20): "Unit Leader Approval. To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his unit leader prior to the election. The unit leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e. his adherence to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The unit leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election." Other than defining the length of time needed for a camping activity to be considered a long-term camp*, the National Order of the Arrow Committee leaves the interpretation of the camping requirement to the unit leader. * A "long-term camp" is one consisting of at least six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping. A "short-term camp" is anything less than that.

My understanding is that attendance at any of the HA bases does count as long term camping as you are a "resident" of the HA base. need to check at home in the book to verify, but on elections teams I've been on and have advised, Philmont and FL Sea Base counted (Sorry N Tier, only met one person who went their,and they were a staffer).

Sailing, That's why I am against the ban, some of us poor landlocked folks wouldn't be able to have fun.

BSA, nope you are nto the source of this legend, it is very wide spread. just google "den chief requirements" and you can see that anythign from troop websites to unofficial sites liek macscouter.com have First Class as a requirement. Oh and WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

'Dad, I think that the lack of TC input stems from the time when TCs were not a fully integrated part of the pack, but somethign additional to it. Hence we still have separate socks inthe blue uniform, and they are still called "Tiger Cubs" instead of Tigers. Rest, I think the new quality unit program was sent out to the SEs and they are just now diseminating it, so give it a little time. 'Dad and I are fortunate in that our SE beleives in working with the volunteers and keeping them informed, so an email went out with the info.

BP, I must respectfully disagree. I think Bart is evidence of the lack of promotion by national. Sea Scouts is not promoted by national enough. that is evidence by the lack of info on the national websites. It can also be seen in other things. One example is the DC parade in July. The float that was suppose to represent all BSA programs did not have a First Class Anchor on the float, there was only 1 Sea Scout ship in the parade, and I saw only 1 other person in a sea scout uniform in the parade. I was asked a lot of questions about the Sea Scout program, as well as the Pamlico Sea Base which I was promoting, by youth and adults alike because few had even heard of Sea Scouts.

Short, they don't just want the outdoor expereince, they want programing experience as well. Their theory is that folks who have been through the program know it best,

the new program that replaces Quality unit and its requirements are out. it's based upon several business models it appears. one thing I don't like is that it doesn't include Tiger Cub in CS advancement. I amhoping it is an oversite.

'Dad, Council is looking for support for all scouts, not just one particular unit. We are fortunate in that we have 6 camps in coucil: Camp Bonner N, Camp Bonner S, Camp Hannah Bonner, Camp Sam Hatcher, Pamlico Sea Base, and my personal favorite, Camp Charles. We are doing more programs, esp on the Cub Level as we both know well, than ever before. but trust me if we had to pay the actual cost of upkeep for summer camp, encampment, etc, many could't affor it. that's where the OA and FOS come in at to help keep costs down.

Bart, Are you part of an LDS unit? I know as a chapter adviser, I have had challenges not only getting in touch with the LDS troop in my district, but also in conducting camp promos and unit elections. The one time I was able to do so, no one was interested in joining the OA. I've been told bu others that LDS units do really get involved in the OA.

Bart, Please take no offense, but your rational on why the BSA shouldn't support Sea Scouts is the reason WHY Sea Scouts needs more promotion. Yes my old ship sailed, but it was in a lake. I visited a ship that used only kayaks. I've seen ships that used only power boats. I've read about ships that only use canoes. I was part of another ship that used kayaks, sailboats, and motorboats. And I've heard of some ship who due nothing but scuba. Yes I did sail in the Gulf of Mexico, and kayaked in the English Chanel, But I know of sea scouts who sail in rivers. I know of sea scouts that sail in lakes. I know of ships who sole purpose is to support scout camps on an island in a lake. I know of sea scouts that are in places where you wouldn't think about, like an Arizona Sea Scout ship. Where there is water, both salt and fresh (got that Sailing, both salt and FRESH, LOL), that can be used for aquatics, a ship can be formed.