Eagle92

Tokala, How about the old Brownsea 22 course. It is an excellent outdoor skills course. I have finally got a scan of a well loved copy of the course, inlcuding notes in the margins. I noticed that my council did modify the course a little, i.e 1/2 the troop was following the course by the book, the other half was doing the days in reverse and they added a service project to the last day. PM me if your interested, or anyone else for that matter. Hey KUDU, want a digital copy for your website?

I'm playing devil's advocate here. Why can Sea Scouts demand attendance for advancement, but not Boy Scouts? Ordinary 2. Active Membership a. Attend at least 75 percent of your ships meetings and activities for six months. Note: Check with your ships yeoman. b. Do one of the following. Recruit a new member for your ship and follow through until the new member is registered and formally admitted with an admissions ceremony, or assist in planning and carrying out a ship recruiting activity, such as an open house or joint activity with a youth group or organization (another Sea Scout ship will not count). Able 2. Active Membership a. Attend at least 75 percent of your ships meetings and special activities for one year. Note: Check with your ships yeoman. b. Prepare and present a program on Sea Scouts for a Boy Scout troop, Venturing crew, Venturing Officers Association meeting, school class, or other youth group. Your presentation should last a minimum of 15 minutes and describe the activities of your ship and Sea Scouts. Quartermaster 2. Active Membership a. Attend at least 75 percent of your ships meetings and special activities for 18 months. Note: Check with your ships yeoman. b. Present a talk or program at least 15 minutes long on Sea Scouts to a service club, religious organization, PTA, or other adult organization.

CS, yep day camp can be 1-5 days, can be full 8 hour days, can be 2 hour days etc. BUT the key is that the camp, however long it is, meets certain standards set by national. They also need 2 national camping school certified folks to run the event, AND the camp needs to be inspected. Most 1 day events do not get inspected, let alone follow ALL of the standards. grant ya usually CSDC folks are involved in the process though. That said, in my experience only 1 event that I know of met those requirements,and I've been around a while. As for only being able to go to your district's camp, let me guess your DE told you that? As Col. Sherman Potter would say, "HORSEHOCKEY!" You can go to any district's day camp within your council.

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At one time, non-registered folks could sit on BORs, and I "visited" several EBORs where we had community leaders on the EBOR (I was a DE at the time hence the "visiting"). Also I don't know if it was policy or not, but knowing my troop I believe it was allowed, I remember sitting BORs for T-2-1 ranks as a Star Scout PL. I also remember older scouts sitting on my 2-1 BORs, I earned Tenderfoot in another troop and transfered. Policies do change, and sometimes the changes do take a while to filter down, a good example is the new chemical fuels one that came out in Dec. as not many people know about it still.

CS, The outdoor award is just that, an award. Overall the idea is to promote the outdoors with camping, earning out achievements, earning outdoor electives, and having fun. It is not necessary for adavcnement or having fun. Heck they didn't have hte award when I was a CS. Now in reference to your pack and making the announcement, Did your council send out a mailer with the info? Is the info posted on your council's calendar or website? EDITED: just reread the post and it sounds kinda harsh, not meant to be. Straightforward yes, but not harsh.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

it depends ofn the level of dedication to scouting. One young man I knew would come from practices and games to meetings and campouts in his band uniform, then change into the scout uniform. Yes he would miss one or two meetings, depending upon band schedule, but he was there.

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Unfortunately the rule states Day Camp or Resident Camp, so in all likelihood the answer is no. But the thing is this, day camp is loosely interpreted at NCS, so that a one day event, IF it meets all national criteria ( about a 5 inch binder's worth" AND IF it gets inspected by an inspection team ( which most 1 day events do not) could possibly meet criteria. But again most one day events do not meet it. In my years in scouting, only 1 has met the criteria.

If national handles it like the 100th anniversary of Sea Scouts in 2012, then you're on your own.

HOW IN THE HECK DID I FORGET GREEN BAR BILL'S ARTICLES ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! (now hitting head against a wall.) Those were informational and inspiring. Maybe BL could bring them back?

Well since I don't have a lot of free time to explain the situation in toto to everyone, I'll do it here. Pack was one of those that had a phenominal CM and AMC team, and while they did a good bit on their own, the committee was up and running, usually following their lead. Those two folks, I'll call the Dynamic Duo, had alot of energy, maybe even more than I have. By any account the pack was the most active in the district. But as happens once the sons age out we lose folks. And that happened: the pack lost the CM, ACM, and a good number of the committee within 6 months. So the pack was scrambling for replacements, found some, and that is when I entered the picture as a TCDL, (I registered in May and oldest officially joined in June, but did attend a campout and service project in May). But within 3 months of me joining, a split occured. One of the DLs was asked to restart his church's pack. And when he did, he took about 1/4 of the pack with him, as well as several of the committee members. So it was an intersting year last year. We lost a few more folks who helped out last year due to aging out. And we are having challenges replacing them. But the biggest challenges I have are the lack of planning, and lack of budget. By lack of planning I mean we do not have a calendar out yet. We also have several events scheduled the same weekend. And on one trip, there was very little organized. Talk about ad libbing. As for budget, none was posted. At the pack meeting, only awards given out were the ones I bought b/c I didn't hear if anythign was purchased. Sorry but that is one of my pet peeves: not giving the scouts what they earned in a timely manner. So no one knows what's going on. Now a little about me and the job, both good, bad, concerns, etc. I admit I am a program freak, and am passionate about scouting. But to be honest the administrative, i.e. paperwork, is a weekness of mine. You would think someone trained to be an archivist could keep their files and paperwork in order So PLUS is program oriented, MINUS is administartive detail. I also have a concern because from the pack's first CM/ACM team, aka the Dynamic Duo above, there is an expectation that the CM does everything: goes to all roundups, RTs, etc etc. I've heard grumblings b/c current CM does work some nites and couldn't make it to every RU this year. I am unable to do things Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays due to family commitments. And this year with my son's CCD or Sunday school, classes being mandatory, I will be leaving any campouts Saturday nite. So that is making me a little uncomfortable. Another concern for me is burn out. I know how much is involved in being CM, and worry if I will lose interest in scouting before youngest ages out. It almost happened when I was OA chapter adviser and it's repetitive cycle: get youth elected as officers, train them, mentor them, let them do things for one or 2 months, and they leave for college or the military and so you start all over. Being OA chapter adviser was no longer fun at the end, and it was good to move to CS with oldest. I guess I don't want to lose the passion as I almost did. In addition to the above, I was thinking about taking on some responsibilities as a religious awards coucilor. We have no one in the community who is invovled in that program for my faith, with the church annoucning those intersted could do the program at another church 2 or 3 counties over in another council. EDITED: thsi was something I just started talkign about doing before I realized the severity of the situation. Finally a more selfish reason for not wanting the position. Moving forma large city to a small town was culture shock, and the one thing that kept me going was the folks I met and worked with onthe district committee. That group of friends more than anything helped me out in some troubling times, both as a pro and as a volunteer. So that is a another, grant you selfish reason why i would liek to stay on the district. Both the wife and I have concerns about what would happen if i didn't have as much contact with them. Again everyone thank you for your input. Keep me in your prayers. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

Are they taking about a slide show of the events that the scouts are being recognized with, or are they talkign "here is what's up" type review? if the former, perfectly doable, if the later, why woudl this be done at a CoH?

Mike, I admit I did not go through either WB course. I did do BA22, which I am told was very similar to GBB's version of WB, and I staffed JLT, which I was told was identical to the old WB course, minus the ticket and beads. One of my JLT youth staffers who went through WB 2 months after the JLT course told me he did not learn anything new and "don't waste your time right now, wait until you need a refresher." Prior to WB21C there were separate WB courses; WB for scout leaders, WB for CS Trainers, and the short lived WB for Explorer leaders. each course focused exclusively on that program area. It was considered elite training as you needed to complete all the basics and have two years tenure as an adult, waivable if you were in the 18 to 19 yo bracket if you made the transition from youth to adult (hence why my staffer at 18 did WB). Yes it focused on outdoor and advance leadership skills. And I've been told that some of the campfire talks afte the normal program did discuss lots of topics of amngst the patrol members. But that is hearsay. That's why alot of folks are upset: they have merged training that really need to focus on specific programs.

If memory serves, hopefully I can get teh requirements out of my old requirements book when I get off work today, you either A) had to go out of the country on a scouting trip that invovled interaction with foreign scouts for 5+ days, or B) Host foreign scouts for a scouting function for 5+ days. I know one camp made a special temp patch for their first international week in 1988 that included the WC image onthe pacth. When the camp did a second internatinal week, mistakenly labeld 'First" in the literature in 2000, it was a special CSP.

Maybe b/c folks who don't wear neckers, or wear them underneath the open collar (which is incorrect in pre-1972 literature), would have it covered up by the collar if worn in the correct space: centered horizontally over left pocket and vertically between left shoulder seam and top of pocket.

Sounds almost like my son's karate school, they tend to start 5 minutes late, and sometimes end 15-20 minutes late.

the troop I was in as a youth and young leader did have a somewhat active "alumni" as we had folks visiting in the summer and various breaks. One troop in my district has more under 21 ASMs as members b/c they get together during the breaks.

Could you expand on the 20 tools?

Also when indoors, you need to make sure the "tent" is near the potty and the nitelite is on. Otherwise your 2yo may get scared and have an accident Don't think I have to worry about that again, as he keeps getting mad at me 'cause I won't let him camp outside with his brothers yet. that changes in two weeks att eh council's family camp out Gotta start them camping young!

Wore my uniform at CSDC for a week, and when camping. The nylon switchbacks are nice for camping, get hot zip them off, get cold, zip them on. Lot better than the old material. Only problem i have is that the lower legs are a darker shade from wearingthe pants as shorts durign the summer.

only problem i have withthe breif glance of the paperwork is that they do not include Tiger Cub Rank in CS Advancement. it's been how many years since Tigers were fully incorporated into the pack and had to earn Bobcat, which counts, before their Tiger Cub?

I remember reading the White Mountains trilogy by John Christopher. That cartoon serial got me hooked on all of his books. Also remember the article on how to build a robot, and actually had the TSI 1800 computer( think it was 1800, but it was definatley a TSI) and wanted to build it. Haven't used it for advancement per se, but I do encourage it to develop a love of reading. I use to read it to my oldest son, especially Scouts in Action, but now he wants to read it himself. As for advancement, if this helps I got the AOL as a Cub, and am an Eagle.

Folks, Thanks for everything. I hope that doesn't sound bad, b/c I honestly mean it. And I'll be PMing folks as I can. To be honest the situation is all I can think about, and has been a distraction from my job. That said, I shouldn't have mentioned leaving as that is the absolute last resort, esp since I am trying to work behind the scenes to save the pack. I think part of the problem is that the pack did split last year, and we lost some great leaders. One of our DLs was asked to restart his church's pack and be CM. Kinda hard to tell you pastor and church deacons no, esp since alot of the material items are in place: flags, equipment,supplies, etc. form when the pack folded. So we lost some great leaders due to that. And that is something I don't want to do again b/c it would kill the pack. More later.

I've mixed emotions on a professional totally dedicated to program, and the use of DEs for program. On one hand, the program pros are an asset b/c they can focus on providing a great program year round. My council has one, and another council I was in had one. While they are an extra salary to provide for, there are ways for them to raise funds to pay for their salaries and provide for the camp, usually by allowing outside groups to rent the camp, and providing great programs that make people want to come to camp. However I bet if you get the wrong person as a PD, it can cause major problems. Fortuantely the two PDs I know/knew were excellent. On the other hand having DEs work camp does A) give them a break form normal duties, B) lets them see first hand what they are working so hard, and C) allows them to better relations with the volunteers. I know that working summer camp my first year as a pro was fun and did the above. Second year I worked a week and it wasn't as much fun, but then again I was just married and the PTB changed my week assignment to the week after I got married, having to cut the honeymoon short BUT some pros are not meant to go near program. Trust me I had to work with a pro who was CD and was not program oriented, and it nearly destroyed the staff, the camp, and the program. The CD was so bad, they sent in another pro as business manager to act as a go between for the staff and the CD. Yes it was that bad, and eventually all the CD did was stay in his room watching TV.