Eagle92

When I earned the award in question,it was called the SCOUTER'S (caps for emphasis) Training Award, not the Boy Scout Leader's Award, and it was open to all Scouters.

Again if memory serves, the head of the Maclaren Clan in the 1920s( would he be called the "laird?") actually authorized all scouts irregardless of whether they were Scottish or not to wear the Maclaren tarten. And that authorization has not been rescinded to my knowledge. Sorry I cannot remember where I picked this bit of trivia from, but it is out there.

TN et al, I think that the point TN makes "If you learn a skill, expecting that you will NOT use it . . . you probably won't. But, if you expect that you WILL use it, and have been mentally prepared to do so, the chance that an occasion for it's use increases dramatically." Is 100% right on. Now my question is: why do some units not expect the skill to be used and retained?

TN, No problems whatsover. this is a 'virtual campfire" and I am one of those who can start at one point in a conversation, and take it in a different direction in about 20 minutes.

BP, The Physician POR is a council level leader who supervises the health and safety stuff, not actually goes to camp. He's ultimately responible for having certified medical folks at summer camp, CS day camps, etc. So while he may not be at camp, he should have helped interview medical staff, set up standing orders, make sure the health lodge is properly supplied etc.

Actually if memory serves, the original WB neckers were 100% Maclaren tarten, but they got too expensive, and hot as well, so Gilwell switched to a swatch of the tarten.

John, Forgot one very important person who needs to maintain records, the scout. It's his advancement, his responsibility

Ok we got into the topic taking rank away if scouts do not continue to show profeivency with skills. My question is this. 1) How many units have an active program that uses those skills continually? 2)How many units have older scouts teaching younger ones? 3) How many units allow junior leaders, i.e. PLs, Instructors, etc OR those appointed by the SPL and SM to teach skills, i.e. Scout who needs to teach basic first aid skills for First Aid MB, to also sign off on T-2-1 requriements?

Since this has transfered into an Advancement thread instead of a Training thread, I am spinning off this topic to advancement.

ok guys, call me an idiot, but some of these, ok most of them, are new ones. Would you carwe to PM them to me. Always looking to update my repetoir.

For clarification, there is a council level POR called 'Physician" and he is the one that writes standing orders, interviews the camp medical officers, and if problems do happen at camp, he is the one that gets called in. I remember one MD going through the Health log trying to find out why everyone was getting sick at one camp I worked at. He narrowed it down to one troop. At Christmas, I was able to narrow it down to 1 person as my cousin sent her son to camp knowing he was sick and could infect folks. Not a happy Staffer,.

I'm going to give a perspective form my expereince. We usually had a Leadership Corps of 5-10 members. Yes we worked with the troop, but also did their own thing. too. Primary job was to work with the PLs and teach the basic skills. We also judged the interpatrol competitions b/c it wasn't fair for us to compete against them Other things did come up when I went to HS: JROTC Drill Team, Chess Team, Cheerleading, as well as the job I had to take to help support myself once I was old enough to work.Yep Scouting became kinda dull and other challenges were there in other programs. But I and my peers remained active because a sense of obligation to the troop,to pass on what we learned and be examples for the newer scouts. Once I got Eagle, I looked for more challenges within the BSA. Hearing the Sea Explorer stories of one of my ASMs, I joined that program. But when my expectations were not met after a year, I got re involved with the OA. The OA was what reinvigorated me and gave me new challenges. I think what folks are looking for is challenges and adventure, at any age. If you don't provide it, they start looking elsewhere.

Kudu, As much as we may not like some of the BSA's advancement rules, I personally would like to see time requirements for T-2-1 as well as First Aid MB required for First Class among others, we do have to follow the rules. But the real problem for me is this: if you have an active program using those skills regularly, and your older scouts are teaching the newer ones those skills, why is their a need to retest? I think part of the problem is that some units do have a weak program, and are not using those skills regularly. (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

TN, Must respectfully disagree with taking badges back as that is not BSA policy, although I do understand the rationale behind it. It can, and will get you in trouble. Trust me on this as some of the recent national advancement decisions have come out of my district I'm told. Short provided a better way to maintain the proficiency: keeping an active program that forces contnueal use of the basic skills. Better still is having those First and above, and sometimes a Second Class Scout too, teach those skills to the younger ones.

TN, Are you saying that your council requires IOLS every 2 years?

Yes it does. Yes parents play a big role in development. BUT not everyone has good role models Scouting provides that in the form of older scouts and leaders. I was one those scouts with a lousy father who walked out on us. With no father figure, and my older brothers literally married and out the house, Scouting provided both older brother figures and father figures that modeled positive character. More later.

'Fish, WEBLET, OWL, or whatever they are calling the Webelos Outdoor leader training these day is about to get merged into IOLS. National was suppose to come out with a course this year, but it has been delayed. Yo be honest if you look at the two courses, they are so similar it can be merged. So if it's a chocie between IOLS and WeLOT, go to IOLS. my opinion is the following TCDL specific CSDL Specific ( either the one physcial course or two online courses, don't ask me why they split Wolf and bear) WDL Specific CM Specific Committee Specific, esp if you need one Hazardous Weather BALOO Safe Swim Defense Safety Afloat ( if you have access to boats)

T-2-1 Skills seems to be the skills needed to test out.

Camp did something like cabin camping on the YORKTOWN. basically everyone of a single gender is in one room, both youth and adult. bathroom facilities had a sign that had adults on one side and youth on another. Worked out OK. This approach seems standard as I've seen it work at 3 places that do scouting, and almost did it at a fourth. This is covered in BALOO if memory serves, at least when I was asked about it at the last course.

Short, That was my question. As for why test out, some folks do have those skills, and to be honest the course would be a waste of time as a participant. Good friend of mine was a 3 Beader and never did IOLS as he completed WB21C as a CM. However he is an Eagle, prior military, and served as a MBC for several outdoor MBs. IOLS would have been a waste of his time. However we FINALLY got him to an IOLS course: he served as the lead trainer (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Correct in that adults don't wear MB sashes. HOWEVER in his defense, if he is a returning to scouting after a hiatus and is using the BSA literature found here: http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Male_Leader_Checklsit.pdf and for females here http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/Female_Leader_Checklist.pdf You will note that it does include a MB sash. And yes I told supply about that error over a year ago.

Folks, This topic made an appearance about 2-3 months back, and I haven't had the time to find the exact passage in the training manual, BUT here it is in the October Training Update from National http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills As a restated reminder, if you feel you have all the skills required in Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills it may not be necessary to take the course. Anyone who feels they can demonstrate all of the skills for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class should contact their District Training Chair and schedule a one-on-one session with a member of the training team. This statement also applies to Venturing Youth (over 18 years of age) who are able to demonstrate outdoor leader skills to an IOLS Certified Course Instructor.

Beav, This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but the older scouts should eb the ones teaching character to the younger ones by serving as leaders, by teaching skills, by their example, etc. That expectation of giving back was there in my troop. Yes we had those who Eagled or aged out and left, but for the most part they stayed around until they moved. We had a few young ASMs in college who would come back whenever they could. Heck I remember a good friend who never made Eagle, comeing back and helping out when he could b/c it was instilled.

Ak hit a very big point in that Leaders' Kids are at almost every activity, usually early and leaving late. They do not miss out on much when it comes to Scouting activities, although they miss out on others, and there are very big expectations on them as they are the "Leader's Kid". That is one of my wife's concerns about me taking on additional responsibilities.

I know that advertising is the lifeblood of any magazine, but I remember a lot less advertising as a youth.