Eagle92

If the question is weather this project meets requirements, it sure sounds like to to me, and he should have no problems getting Eagle. If you are describing how a Life Scout's project went up in smoke, it can happen. best project one of my troop's scouts did was a reforestation project. Took about 2 months making wire guards to protect trees from a critter called a nutria, and another 2-3 weeks in a swamp plating trees. about 5-6 months after planting, all the trees were eaten up by the nutria, all that remained were the guards.

I too don't understand the WBers only mentality to training anymore, especially outdoor training since WB21C is not an outdoor skills course. As for EDGE, I believe national is the one recommending that to trainers. But when you are desparate for folks with the KSAs to do a course, use them.

Short, Same with me, one den # all the way from Wolves (no Tigers back then) to Webelos. I don't know if the problem is common everywhere, some locations, or just here, but when my pack restarted in Sept, I lost 1/2 my TCs. Out of the 11 I had in May, I had 6 return. The other den is in a similar boat: out of 10 down to 5. Sad part is 4 of my 5 who left participated in the pack summertime activities.

Short, Understand completely, which is why I did BALOO (which was really poorly done as it was all inside IMHO). Me personally I'd rather a person with the KSAs already testout and serve on staff, or is that serve on staff and test out

Folks, My intent to providing this information is to bring attention to the fact that a test out option for those who qualify is available. Not trying to dissuade or abuse training staff, far from it trying to lighten loads esp. in small districts like my own, nor am I criticizing trainers, esp since I am one. Just presenting another training option, esp since mandatory is around the corner for everyone, here already for pilot councils, and there is a shortage of training staff. I know that in my district, we only offer IOLS and BALOO once a year, if that. Forget WeLOT, haven't doen that in the 6 years I've been back in the district. I know how hectic some folks' lives can be. I know that folks want to spend time with family instead of going to a training that they may not learn anything new. Did that with BALOO last year, and SM Fundamentals outdoor portion back in the day. As I stated, BSA did allow self study and coaching or mentoring as a form of training. I beleive it's still allowed, but don't have the training book anymore, gave that to my successor. it was effective, esp. when people had a strong background in the program and just needed to be tested to see if they really knew the program. Got through Exploring basic that way.

I've been thinking on this some more, and this is something I was plannign on doing until I foudn out the Webelos and parents already saw it. To help a troop out that sounds very similar: youth led, small rural in competition with 2 mega adult led troops, I planned to show a segments of Follow Me Boys to the parents and boys. I wanted to show Lem doing the marching and he personally leading and say this is how Webelos is like with the leader's with yout sons. I then wanted to jump into one of three scenes and say this is how scouting is uppose to be: youth led. Scene one would be building the scout hut, with the scouts taking initiative, screwing up, then Lem providing guidance to get it done right. Second possibles scene would be when Whitey makes the rescue on the hike. Some reservations as some parent may be shocked, but it was an option. SM liked this one. Third possible scene would be the Wargames, wher the troop is left on their own as Lem can't tie a simple sheepshank to prevent his arrest by the MPs . Another option woudl possible be the fast start video.

ASM, WOW, I wish I had 1/4 of the new scouters in your dsitrict. Last time IOLS was offered in my district, which was August, about 8 showed up fro IOLS. But we are a small, rural district, and only had 2 trainers doing that course. The test out option is that they must demonstrate the skills taught at IOLS to a IOLS trainer, so that is the criteria, just like IOLS. So this could be done at RTs, district camporees, summer camp, etc. With so much going on in folks' lives, I think it will help. While you may consider it a disservice to those who attended, I know that when I went through the old SM Fundamentals, which did not allow a test out for outdoor skills, that entire weekend was a waste of time for me as I did have the KSAs already. I didn't learn anything new, and in fact all I did was help my patrol as I was the PL that weekend. I was fortunate in that I was a college student, and had some free time on my hands. But I know of folks who don't have that luxury. In fact I know one guy who never did IOLS until he taught it at summer camp, despite being a 3 beader, b/c he was so invloved with a troop, crew, and district. You got folks who work shift and weekends. And then you got folks who records are so screwed up, they are listed as untrained. Do get me started on that one. I had a guy attend an IOLS I did 4 or 5 years ago complain to high heaven that the records did not show him completing IOLS, despite being an ASM for over 12 years. Again don't think the test out option is a disservice, rather a tool that can be used when the situation calls for it. It can be viewed as a "self-study" or "coaching" type of training, which the BSA did encourage a few years back. I know I did Exploring Leader trainign that way before the split into Venturing.

Gonna hijack the thread a little In addition to where can you find a good bugle, what literature, both free online stuff and stuff I would need to buy, is out there to help teach bugling to someone, i.e. a 7 y.o. Wolf who got one as a birthday present? Yep Wolf son got an "experienced" bugle for his birthday, and now want to learn how to play it. I think I am in trouble.

For a long period of time, my troop growing up had no feeder pack. For the most part it was word of mouth recruiting and siblings. We did three things though that made our presence known. 1) At the Scout Shows, we had a "bo'sun's Chair" ride. Basically 2 tripod towers, one 30' the other 15', a length of cable, and a chair mounted on a pulley. We had about a 3O minute line of folks wanting to ride it. We got a few scouts that way. Eventually the council stopped the shows, and when they did restart them, we couldn't do the event as it fell under COPE requirements, and I wasn't certified at that time. By the time I was, they stopped again 2)Our annual fundraiser was working cleanup at a local festival. Yes it was a dirty job, but we had it so organized that you only really worked 15-20 minutes/hour. And we had 1 hour on/one hour off, so there was planty of time for recruiting. 3) We had den chiefs working at a neighboring pack. We got a few new members that way. Not many as that CO started a troop. BUT having DCs was one of the reasons that saved my troop as we had a relationship with the CO already. Long story short, that CO wanted a troop, and had a small, 1 patrol troop of 11 yos. When our new IH wanted us gone, that troop merged with us, and we moved.

Folks still haven;t heard abotu the test out option for IOLS. And Some councils are not recognizing it. HERE IS THE SITE STATING TEST OUT OF IOLS IS AN OPTION (caps for emphasis) http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx Yep it's on an official BSA website, under the TRAINING topic. Hope this helps!

Here are some ideas for trainers, some of which may be "out of the box." 1)Use older scouts, young ASM, and Venturers who have the KSAs to do the training. I would think that a 16-17 yo Scout who has a HA trek under their belt, i.e. Philmont, FL Sea base, N. Tier, Pamlico Sea Base (www.pamlicoseabase.org )etc would have a little knowledge on outdoor skills. Or maybe the summer camp staffer who helps teach first year camper, i.e. the T-2-1 outdoor skills which are covered in IOLS, I'm sure they would have the skills. And i would expect the 19y.o. Eagle Scout ASM who has a very strong outdoor background, i.e. fifty-milers, JLT, etc. Should have the expereince to not only test out of the training, but also teach it. He must have did some camping in his career. As for the female Venturer who was never a Scout, I'm sure the Outdoor Bronze will give her the expereince she need to teach the course. Heck isn't one of the Ranger requirements that she is to teach various outdoor skills? Ok they need to teach various skills to"your crew, another crew, a Cub or Boy Scout group, or another youth group," so maybe the requirement needs to be changed to include leaders? but still wouldn't they be a viable source of trainers? 2) recruit trainers who have the KSAs, but don't have the "training" best example I could give was my WB friend who never did IOLS as he was a CM and only needed BALOO to go to WB. But he is an Eagle, prior military, and served a a MBC for Camping, Cooking, Backpacking, and several other outdoor MBs. He had the KSAs and FINALLY took IOLS when he taught it at summer camp everyweek for new leaders.

My current pack does Tiger 1, Tiger 2, Wolf 1, etc. Pack I grew up in gave you a number, say Den 2 and that was what you were your entire career.

John, Nope, just a lousy speller with 3 kids running amok. Another syllabus I found recently is the BROWNSEA 22 one that Green Bar Bill wrote and I went through. While the course was an "advance leadership" course focusing on scoutcraft, parts of it could be used.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

If you google Troop Leader Training Syllabus, Junior Leader trainng syllabus, or event sxcout syllbqaus, you may be lucky to find older syllbi to usein conducting training. OR get a copy og the 3rd ed. SM Handbook, both volumes, as it does list a training regime that may me modified to meet today's scouting. I also echio what others have said: Keep it outside, keep it hands on, and avoid electronic. remember "Outing is 3/4s of ScOuting."

Currently, if you are doign a HA trip at a nationally accredited HA base, i.e. Phimont, FL Sea base, N Tier, PAMLICO SEA BASE (WWW.PAMLICOSEABASE.ORG ) and others, a WFA course is required. Sorry I had to put in a plug.

From what I read in a news article, the alternate uniform would be for foks who don't want to wear a field uniform. There was a thread a while back that I posted a bunch of reasons why I am against it. You can now add ugly as sin to the list

Ok I'm going to be a PITA, but here it goes. Why wouldn't you wear CS leader knots with a Venturing uniform? Why wouldn't you wear your Venturing leader knots on a Boy Scout uniform? Would you wear all of your knots on a district/ council uniform or none of your knots except DAM or SB? And for my Sea Scout friends, what 6 knots would you pick? Seriously though i don't understand that logic of only wearing program specific knots instead of all of your knots. They are recognized leader awards by the BSA, they show your dedication to the movement. So what's the big deal? Forgot to add, yes I wear my DAM, district committee key and STA on my cub scouter uniform (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

You should be fine. We have a high percentage of active duty, reserve, and retired military in my council and lodge. No problems. If you have concerns, talk to one of the OA folks in advance. Good Luck.

the last two beading ceremonies I've seen were KISS affairs. Counselor came up, put the ax in the log, explained what WB was, gave the regalia, and it was done. No Singing, no critter calls, nothing. took under 10 minutes, and one was at a district camporee's campfire, the other at an OA lodeg meeting after an Ordeal.

T, In my old council, we called 18-21 yos GASers, Gray Area Scouters, since they were adults in a troop, but youth for OA and Venturing, but at the time Exploring. And it got interesting. For OA activities what we would do is this: under 18 stayed together. 18-20 stayed together, 21+ stayed together.

I beleive a certain jr. senator from IL said something very similar.

Vig, I hear ya. Yep I wear 6 knots, and to behonest I am an anal retentive uniform nazi who actually takes off my knots and resews them so that my Eagle, AOL, and religious knots are always the first three. Everything else will come after those three for me.

Short, No problem. I also stand corrected as I reread the now old Sea Scout Manual. Apparently the National Sea Scout committee wants ALL ships wearing standardized uniforms. However after readings some of the posts on the sea scout threads, it's kinda hard to get every ship in line with a standardized uniform after approx 30 years of having ships dotheir own thing and it being 100% ok. I guess we have a lto of ships with vintage uniforms.

Sail, On page 113 of the, now old, Sea Scout manual it says the following ...if suspended medals or knots are worn, the SEAL insignia is owrn above the suspended medals or knots... and page 114 tells you which youth knots are acceptable on adult uniforms: Quartermaster, Eagle Scout, Venturing Silver, old Air Scout Ace, Honor Medal, Heroism Award, Medal of Merit, Hornaday, and religious. I personally think they forgot a few knots, specifically Arrow of Light, Exploring Ranger, Exploring Silver, and Young American, to name a few. hope it helps and here's a link tothe now old manual online http://venturingmag.org/documents/vba/Handbooks/SeaScoutManual/Index.htm

Links to info on BAC's alternate uniform expereiment. what's available in BAC now http://www.baltimorebsa.org/OrgStore/store/default.asp?orgkey=749 What's coming up http://www.baltimorebsa.org/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=749&id=76283 The adult uniform looks worse than the one we have IMHO.