Eagle92

Plunger and pail! We don't need no stinking plunger and pail, we got the BROWNSEA WASHING MACHINE! I too have a bunch of neckers and I was wearing them on a weekly basis until I bought my centennial one that is the proper size. Kinda hard to wear most of the others that aren't the right size.

Yep the Ad Altare Dei qualifies you to wear the Religious Youth Award knot (silver knot on purple background) and the Boy Scout Device. If ya got the Parvuli Dei as a Cub, depending upon if Webelos was a 1 year or 2 year program, then you are able to put a Cub Scout device on it (if Webelos was 1 year) or a Webelos Device ( if Webelos was 2 year program, yes evan if earned as a Bear)

Fox, Chrystal clear. And I have dealt and seen problems with adult women rather than the female teenagers. The teens I've worked with and know do know how to squash the showing off that some guys will do. I have never had to talk to any teen girls, nor have I had to report an issue to the CD about teen girls. The lifeguards are more than willing to enforce rules and kick folks out. And the teens in other areas know how to deal with problems too. As for the adult ladies, all of the problems I've had ans seen are from them. Yep I've tried to talk to one (didn't work), talk to her brother's friend working camp (ditto), as well as her big brother (ditto again). But the surprise visit from her fiance did cut the garbage out As for the other case I mentioned previously, b/c she was the only person qualified for the position, she thought she was untouchable. Again a surprise visit from her CO put a stop to her. EDITED: As for Cub Scout moms, while I have never had any problems while on staff, I have heard about some problems, one of which did lead to a DE losing his job. And when I did a summer campout, it was interesting at the pool.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

WOW So I guess 1) You don't have to wear neckers at all now regardless of program. 2) Bobcat is no longer required for other CS ranks. 3) OA sashes go over the epaulets now 4) Ventures don't need green loops 5) Ventureres can wear green Scout pants and belts. I don't think anyone with field expereince works in national's PR department or supply anymore.

Fox, Having been a teenage swimming instructor, lifeguard and a lifeguard instructor I know what some guys will do. In my experience most ladies can squash that in a few minutes. Nothing like lifeguard with a Fox 40 whistle and the ability to kick folks out of the pool cannot handle. Edited: it was teh over 21 ladies that caused problems on staff. One of which did affect me directly as I had to take up her slack on the COPE course As I stated previously, it wasn't the under 18 ladies I had problems with, but the over 21 ladies. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

RS, Philmont and any other opportunities where the patrol has a chance to "gel together" prior to a trip are probably the best examples. But in my experience having patrols meet for the first time at a week long training like NYLT, may not work. Having gone through Brownsea 22 and staffing JLTC, I've noticed that some patrols do work out, and some are absolutely horrible. The Cocky Curlews I regret to say was one of those. Yes we learned a lot. Yes almost all of us mastered the basic scout craft skills. But we were not a team. We had slackers in the patrol who didn't want to do their fair share of the work. We had one who didn't want to go backpacking, so he deliberately got a blister and infected it so he couldn't go backpacking, forcing his buddy to carry his load as well. One of the patrols at JLTC had the almost the exact same problems. Instead of getting blisters, some of the kids mixed berries into their food known to make them sick, so they had to go home. The one thing both patrols had in common was the ages. Both patrols had 13-14 yos in them. The patrols that worked together usually were 15-16 or 16-17. Don't remember the age break out at BA22 as I had limited contact with the other patrols, but I think they were broken down by the ages above. As SPL of the JLTC, I know the patrol that had problems were 13-14yos, the two patrols that h ad fun and rocked were the 15-16 yos, and the 16-17 yos just did what they had to do. BUT when I went to Canada, we had 13-17 yos in the patrol, and everyone looked out for each other. We met periodically for 18-24 months prior to the trip going over skills and working together.

BP was notorious for doing Gilbert and Sullivan. If memory serves, he played a very big joke on a British command by issuing orders for an inspection by some major general. Everyone shows up for the inspection, except BP. The major general arrives starts the inspection, then in the middle of it breaks out into Gilbert and Sullivan's "I am the Very Model of the Modern Major General." Yep it was BP playing a joke. Bet it helps to have an uncle who is commanding general.

The capstone awards like Eagle fall under the "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle" thing, eh? So Eagle is a "current status". Just as Eagle, Quartermaster, Silver, and the older Exploring Ranger and Air Scout Ace Awards are capstone awards, so to is the AOL. So it too shows current status.

Boyce, You remind me of an incident at NOAC. Ceremony competition was running late, and everyone was told you couldn't eat unles you had your uniform shirt on. Again had to have your uniform shirt on. SOOOOOOOO As soon as we finished competing, the entire ceremony team put on their uniform shirts over their regalia and ran to the cafeteria, getting some strange looks. Our reply was.... REAL MEN WEAR LEGGINGS!

There are a lot of opinions out there, but here are my thoughts. 1) Uniforms. The look like Scouts, which in turns helps them to remember to act like Scouts. 2)Good age mix. I do not like NSPs as I would like to "older" folks in the patrol help teach newer scouts. NSPs usually have no one who knows their scoutcraft, except the troop guide, and that leads to more adult involvement INHO. That leads to 3)Good mix of Scoutcraft Skills. Again I like folks to learn form one another. I like a Tenderfoot help someone learn the Oath and Law. I like a 2nd Class teaching T-2 first aid skills to those workign on them. I like the idea of the PL signing of on advancement after making sure the folks can do the requirement. 4)Teamwork. Every scout knows what needs to be done and does it. No slackers. 5) Capable of being on their own. While you may have newer scouts who are still learning, overall the patrol is capable of doing it all on their own without assistance, b/c the olde rscouts are capable but also are looking out and helping the newer guys. 6) Growth. Every member of the patrol is growing physically, mentally, and morally. They are gaining confidence and skills. And I am sure I am forgetting things.

So this is all not surprising. Either you have a standard that's enforced, or you don't, and then people will do what they want, which becomes the defacto standard. IMHO, this is what happened in Sea Scouting during the Sea Exploring period. Ships created their own "piratical outfits" as some have called the distinct identity uniforms of Exploring that Ships created and there was no standard uniform. You look a multiship photos from that period, and it's a hodgepog of uniforms. Then when the national Sea Scout committee establishes specific uniforms, everyone gets ticked off. Some ships comply, some ships keep doing their own uniforms, and some ships that have kept the recommended uniform that dates to the 1920s ignore those changes to the new standard uniform guidelines. Can see some of that in Jambo photos. Back on Topic with Cub Scouts. I know that the BSA is trying to create and maintain a "brand." Isn't the uniform one of the most recognizable "brand" images around? Folks instantly recognize BSA uniforms, and we have our "image." I know when we sold popcorn, folks recognized us instantly.

'Box, I'd write a letter of complaint to this guy: Michael A. Ashline Director, Supply Group Boy Scouts of America P.O.Box 7143 Charlotte, NC 28241 You will hear back, if not from him, then from somebody who lost a few pounds from Ashline chewing him out.

Kinda like what Baltimore Area Council is playing with already eh? http://www.baltimorebsa.org/OrgStore/store/default.asp?orgkey=749 Then again I was thinking how much cheaper Sea Scout uniforms are compared to the ones from national. It may be a benefit after all.

'Box, See if you can cancel your order and PM TRAINERLADY as she works for a national shop that does have them in. If what she says is true, all shippign prices are the same irregardless of location, it won't cost any more than what you are payign now, and you may get it faster.

BP And watch what happens if they do away with uniforms. I predict the following 1) Revenues will be down from folks not buying uniforms, and possibly advancement. After all if a uniform is not needed, why buy insignia and rank? EDITED: all you need to do is buy the pocket certificate, or create your own. 2) Visibility will be reduced greatly. See some of the GSUSA comments I've posted elsewhere. 3) Membership will drop sicne we are not as visible.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Does anyone know if national still has their in-house studio? I remember when they would use folks out of national for their pics and videos, and they at least knew a little about the uniforms. Now it's a complete SNAFU.

I am looking in the latest BSA gift catalog and notice that none of the Cubs are wearing neckerchiefs. The Webelos on page 10 isn't wearing one, the I assume it's a Wolf since he has a bit of yellow on the cap on page 17 isn't wearing one, and the Webelos on pages 24 and 25 isn't wearing one. So when did neckers become optional for Cubs? This could save my pack a bundle of money come May as we give out the neckers and slides to all those who move up in May as we won't have to buy them anymore.

Kudu, My apologies, I read a little too much into your statement about not filling out tour permits for patrol activities. I've been told, don't remember where or when but it has been in the past 2 years adn I think it was on MYSCOUTING, that patrols do not fill out tour permits at all for their outings. Apparently at least one council recognizes that patrols can camp on their own, and do require a tour permit. So that's the good news,one council recognizes that patrols can camp on their own (bold for emphasis) E92

Question, does WB21C now provide CEs, CEUs, or whatever they are called, like the older course did? I know that some companies in the past did pay for WB, and in 1 or 2 cases I heard about, also paid the employee their wages for the week.

My understanding is that finances are well in the council, but I am a lowly volunteer so it could be that. What I was told is that all BSA employees will receive their paychecks from national from now on. And this started this month. EDITED; kind alike how national is making councils use their website models, moving regional offices to TX, etc.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

trainer, Any reason why the sea scout stuff is restricted? As for vet pins, if memory serves, up to 15 or 20 years and the council can approve and issue a card EXCEPT for professionals. For 20 or 25+ years and all professionals for any amount of time, National has to approve it and issue you a card. Once you get the card, then you can go buy it. They are suppose to ask to see the card. Which reminds me I need to find my 25 year vet card and get a pin one of these days or just (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Trainer, Question one should have read Did you BUY ( caps to point out spelling error) it (the first green jacket)

Well I hope the probelm gets solved ASAP as 1) it's end of the month and pros and councils need their membership stats and 2)I was told that council employees now get their paychecks from national.

Fish, Some of the things that national has restricted nowadays don't make sense. For example the Sea Scout Leader hat pin and sea scout leader device are both restricted now. And don't mention the Sea Scout lapel pin. It isn't even listed on SCOUTSTUFF.ORG, but if you know the item number and call, they say it's also restricted.

Kudu, With all due respect, it looks like some councils do require a tour permit for "patrol and squad" outings. http://www.fiverivers.org/venturing/forms/tour_permit_policy_by_frc_2-26-03.pdf EDITED forgot to add I discoverd this trying to find the risk management book in another thread.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)