Eagle92

Actually if memory serves, at the time of the US Constitution being written and adopted, several states did have state religions. Hence the wording was to forbid Congress from creating a national religion.

You won't find a rule either way. But looking at a local tour permit, it states Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours. Coed Venturing crews must have both male and female 21-year-old leaders for overnight activities. All registered adults participating in any nationally conducted event or activity must have completed BSA Youth Protection training. At least one registered adult who has completed BSA Youth Protection training must be present at all other events and activities that require a tour permit. Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed. That's from the 2009 printing of the LTP. Also the Guide to Safe Safe Scouting states: ...Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings....

I second Beavah's "cut the congressional budget" comment. Freind of mine use to work in Congress. After seeign some of the travel receipts on the net, WOW! Over $80,000 for booze, that must have been heck of a fun plane ride! EDITED: the $80K booze bill was for one trip!(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

As someone else mentioned, a very similar thread appeared over on the girl scout thread. I too think the IH/COR needs to make that decision as the crew does reflect them. A total and honest assessment of the entire situation needs to be done and told to the IH in order for him to make the best decision for all. To be honest, my thoughts are more for the baby than the Venturer. I would have some very serious reservations about a pregnant Venturer or adviser doing some activities. For me that baby is the most important thing. And after reading about the school teacher who miscarried while breaking up a fight and got hit, I would hate for any type of accident while on an activity cause a miscarriage.

Well my troop got kicked out of one CO while we were helping another CO's troop get started. Eventually we moved to their CO, keeping our number and tenure (we had the lower number and longer tenure), and then merged together. No real problems with transition, but they were camping and meeting with us for about 6 months or so, and they had an affinity for our troop. Plus we did have one or two older brothers in our troop, sothat helped as well. Since the other troop was essentially a NSP, there were some challenges, but once we merged and the indivual scouts integrated into our existing patrols, it worked out very well for everyone. Some thoughts: 1) be polite, nice and welcoming. 2)get them involved in both meetings and on a campout. 3) With the younger scouts, have some of your better older scouts help them out a little. 4) With the older ones ready to Eagle, get them involved with the venture patrol. As you can see you need to get them to intermingle, meet folks and have fun. An aside for a minute. The CO my troop got kicked out of ended up merging with the new CO for financial reasons. It may have been a great thing that it happened.

Trainer, No sour grapes, just a budget problem. We've had the pack run as "two man shows." with the CM and ACM being the only ones who knew what was in the account. Our committee was a paper one. When the original CM and ACM left, there was a substantional amount of money, mostly due to the generousity of the CO and their raffle to support the troop and pack (old CM figured out away around BSA's raffle and games of chance policy by letting the CO do it). Then they left and we got a new CM and ACM. New CM and ACM kept on spending like in the past, as that seemed to be expected. So money was spent providing a great program. Problem is now the CO is focusing all their fundraising to build a new youth center. So instead of helping to support our program, they are focusing their efforts on getting the pack, troop, and crew their our own rooms in the new facility. So no more raffles to help the units. Pack now has have just the dues and popcorn sales, no other income. I have no problem with spending the rest of your budget per Cub amount on a nice present for the Webelos. But if that money was all used up, and the awards were going to eat up all of your popcorn funds and more, that's a problem.

P et al, I don't know Kudu personally, but this is what I get from his posts. 1) He is passionate about Scouting. Why else would he compile and produce on his website all the scoutcraft items that he has? He wants Scouting to grow, and shares his knowledge with those of us who are still learning. And sometimes that passion come out the wrong way over the internet as you cannot see the "non-verbal languange" of tone of voice, facial features, posture, hand gestures, etc. 2) He survived the 1970s urban Scouting program, saw what happened to Scouting and never, ever wants it to happen again. Especially since the man who saved Scouting, Green Bar Bill, has gone home, and I doubt that any one man could ever wear his smokey bear.To paraphase a popular comment in my neck of the woods: Green Bar Bill had forgotten more about Scouting than all of use had ever learned AND HE STILL KNEW MORE THAN ALL OF US (caps for emphasis as that is emphasised in the joke). 3) He sees Scouting going down that slipperly slope to urban Scouting again, with the focus on leadership, one size fits all training at both the adult and youth levels, etc. as well as a de-emphasis on traditional Scoutcraft. Hence his abhorrance of WB21C. While I respectfully disagree with him about Scouting and leadership training to a degree (I think leadership training should come about via heavy use of the PM), I beleive he is 100% correct on traditional Scoutcraft and the PM. As others have pointed out in other threads, we cannot expect a brand new leader with no previous outdoor experience to become an expert in just one weekend. We need to emphasize basic scoutcraft and the PM more in our training. EDITED: Sometimes he appears gruff and may rub you the wrong way, but please do look at some of the stuff on his website as it is a treasure trove of scouting knowledge that has probably taken his lifetime to collect.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

PJ, What'd I tell ya, Keith will gets things done! E92

In my neck of the woods, not only is teh duty roster still done, but also it is required to be posted in a conspicuous place in the patrols' campsites at our camporees.

Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cub Scouts IS different than Boy Scouts. What Kudu promotes does not fit Cub Scouts 100% as it is Boy Scout oriented. I fyou were in a troop, I say follow it 100% However as the cubs get older you CAN start "letting go" and letting them take over, especially at the Webelos level. One thing I have done is recruit a den cheif, and I try to let him run parts of the meetings. Heck last den meeting, ADL was workign with one group, DC was with another, and I was dealing with paperwork. He got a kick out of being able to sign off on advancement. One thing that Kudu has modestly not recommended, but other have, is go visit his website. I highly recommend it.

I got to agree 100% with Kudu's "teenage- hero PL" comment. I will also add Den Chief and SPL to the list. I know when I joined scouts, the folks I wanted to be like initially was my older Eagle Scout cousin and my Den Chief as a webelos. Then it became my PL, and as a PL it became my SPL. When i came to those positions i would always look to their exampel and think what they about what they did or would do. What's funny is as a leader today I always ask what would my SM do.

J.E. West endowment is nice. A framed collage of pictures, or scrap book taken by you guys and put together is another (My troop did a poster of pics that I placed in my scrap book). A "roast" is another. A surprise party is a fourth idea. Also having a celebration that helps scouting is anotehr idea. We had a long term SM (20+ years as SM not to mention a long time as ASM prior to that)who was also very prominent in the community and state that stepped down. Folks got together with the DE and FOS Chair to have a FOS banquet honoring him.

When I worked for supply they did have the guarantee. If we couldn't replace it, we had to give the money back. Now local distributorships can't do that b/c they are charged for the return shipping and a restocking fee, or so I am told.

Frank, for those troops that don't do so, that's a GREAT idea. i know in my area, a BSHB is the standard gift from troops.

Now I freely admit that once upon a time, I would have said Eagle, and whenever I met a scout I would ask "when are you going to get _______fill in the next rank_______?" Although that started from a troop joke as the BOR would always saw "We would like to see her in ____ Months for your (next rank) BOR, Congratulations, it was also used to see if the scout was progressing, knew what needed to be done, and had a gameplan. And then I would go on about getting eagle. But soemthing has changed. Don't know if it was angin out her too much, reading some of the oler literature where 1st Class was the goal, or seeing some Eagles with weak basic scout skills. but it has changed. 1st Class means you have masterd the basic scout skills and can take care of yourself. That is very important. Eagle proves you have the motiviation to move on, set goals, take repsonsibility for yourseld and others.

Ok thanks for the info. I was told my pack spend $48/plaque, and I was shocked. our budget is not the same as it has been in the past, and I was told there was an argument about the pack not buyin them this year like in the past. Apparently the parents are now going to buy them What I have done for the Order of the Arrow, and thought it would be cool for AOL, was take the BSA's ceremonial arrow kit, woodburn name, pack #, and AOL date on the shaft, then redo the coup feathers so they are hand painted and more realistic than with just the dye, ( ok I am a feather snob and admit it,that's from dancing in the OA for way to long ), and use either yarn or embroidery thread to wrap the quills in the colors of their achievements, i.e orange= Tiger, Red= Wolf, light blue=Bear, navy= Webelos.

P, WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!! In reference to WB, once upon a time there were two WB courses, one for Boy Scout leaders that focused on outdoor skills and leadership, and a Cub Scout Trainer WB that focused on how to train CS leaders and ge them pumped. They also breifly had an Explorer Leader WB. Now with a "one size fits all" training approach, folks are concerend that skills specific to one program are not being reviewed like in previous courses. This is both on the adult level, i.e. WB21C, as well as on tee youth level, i.e. NYLT and NAYLE both are available for Venturers under 18, and are now coed, but are covering the same exact material for both Boy Scout and Venturers, when there are differences. Folks aren't knocking on cub scouts and their leaders, rather they are upset that topics that really need more in depth work than IOLS are not covered and/or reviewed at WB like they were in the past.

Ok I know some packs give something "extra" when Cubs get their Arrow of Light and/or Cross over. I've seen personalized arrows, I've seen certificates, framed pictures, plaques, etc. I'm curious as to how much other units spend on these extras,a nd what are they. Thanks. E92

Stosh, Some very good points. In reference to school activities sometimes these activities are mandatory and a grade is based upon it. I know band is the best example, but I went to a school that used sports for PE credit. Practices and games during the season counted towards the grade, and they had a "free period" in order to do homework. Then when the season was over, they had to take a normal PE class. So if you missed practice, or missed a game, your grade was affected. Kinda hard to compete with a school activity when a grade is on the line. As for scheduling, it can be a PITA, esp. in the situation my troop was in as described above. There was no way to get 100% attendance. But if your scouts take the time, they can a schedule created that will not constantly force one group of people to miss every single activity. Trust me, our planning session was a day long one to cover the 10+ calanders. But we realized that the schools had a pattern to their callendars, so we were basically able to predict what dates would cause which scouts not to attend.

A few thoughts. 1) Older kids want both resposnibility AND adventure. Yes going to the same campground doing the same instruction can get a little boring. BUT it you allow your older guys to do some things on their own, and coordinat with with other units and council for HA activities, your older scouts will stay. 2) In reference to jambo troops, how long before jambo and how often did you meet? I know for my trip we met 12-18 months prior, had one or two troop meetings to go over skills that coudl be done indoors as well as talk about the trip, and also had several prep trips to go over basic skills, learn and practice advance ones, and "gel." 3) Ok maybe my troop had an aged based patrol after all. We did have an older scout patrol, sometimes 14-17, mostly the 15-17 year olds. You had to be 1st Class, and had to be a PL for a year, if not longer, get voted in by the patrol members, and you served in a troop level POR (actually if memory serves the Leadership Corps WAS an acceptable POR). Now we did have a few 15 y.os not in the LC, usually those who hadn't been PL, weren't 1st Class, or liked staying with their friends. Not many but a few. 4) I've never seen the servant mentality before, but can imagine it if the older scouts do view the younger oens as serfs. SPL would definitely need to fix matters

PE, Don't remind me about scheduling and school calendars. Try doing your yearly planning session and having to deal with 10+ calendars as you have scouts in both the public ES, MS and HS and in a bunch of private and parochial ES and HS ! Good news is that after 3 or 4 years, we pretty much knew exactly what weekends were available, and just plugged in trips. I think this brings up a point: Different troops have different circumstances they have to deal with, hence they need to adapt, improvise and overcome.

SctDad, LOL, and N. Tier sells the good ones too! I bought a cheap pair of 'jungle boots" for canoeing as I was told jungle boots are the best, and learned the hard way you get what you pay for. Luckily the boots were only a day old when the sole came off, and I was able to get a refund, which went into an Altama pair. I love my Altama jungle boots for water activities. And now that the best camp in the council has rowboats, I am using my jungle boots a lot more now On a different note, I don't think anyone is complaining about boots, backpacks, etc being used. Rather I think people are referring to stuff like gloves, pistol belts, pants etc that are worn With a uniform or in place of a uniform. And I can see where folks are coming from.

Have you tried mixed age patrols? Another option would be to let the two folks set up asnormal and try to do the events or activities still. The several discussions are bringing back memories of when my troop tired NSPs, aka an age based patrol. If memory serves, usually when there was a school conflict, i.e. school concert, game, etc. then those members of the patrol involved in the activity were gone. I think that's one reason why it didn't work in my troop: when you did go to a campout you might be a 2 or 3 man patrol. Actually I now remember an event where I was the only one that showed up b/c the entire patrol was involved in a school activity, and everyone was in the same grade at the same school, except me.

CONGRATULATIONS! If some of the advice is not needed, then ignore. 1) Get training ASAP as Boy Scout leaders, if you haven't already, as Boy Scouts is very different than Cub Scouts and I have found some folks make a difficult transition. 2) Get your Life, Star, and 2nd class Trained, if not done so already. I would advise looking at both current training like TLT, NYLT as well as older material like JLTC, and my personal favorite Brownsea 22 (PM me if you want a copy of that syllabus, and yes I am a Cocky Curlew!). 3) have those 3 scouts who will be the foundation of the troop to look at the best things adn traditions they liked about their old troop, and try to incorporate it. If you got other scouts transfering in, see if they have any traditions you can incorporate. 4) Get a copy of the 3rd Ed. SMHB,both volumes, and let the SPL review the training section from it an implement it. Yes I know it's meant to be done by the SM initially and gradually letting the youth do the training, But if you got expereinced scouts, why do soemthing they can do themselves? 5) get a copy of the old Woods Wisdom, or Troop Program Features vols 1-3 and Troop Resources (those 4 books = the old Woods Wisdom book, just may have outdated forms in it). These are pre-writtent plans for SPLs to use in planning their troop meetings. Good foundation to start from. OK gotta get back to work.

Something a little lighthearted for this post. I just got off the phone with my 2.5 years old [edited: that's 2 POINT 5 years old, not 25 years old. Could barely see the decimal point in the post], and he asked me when he's going camping again. He's been in the back yard and at the local council camp with the pack, and he wants more. I am a corrupting influence. (This message has been edited by eagle92)