Eagle92

Me personally I want the Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturer to be able to demonstrate the skill withou any help at all to me before I sign off on it. With Cubs, because we have them "Do Your Best" I will cut them some slack.

HICO, Welcome Back. I agree: "SCOUTING IS OUTING" as Green Bar Bill has said. If we want to recruit folks and keep them, promise them adventure and keep that promise.

There's a discussion on this topic under uniforms. Cheers

Base asks I have to ask myself Why does it matter? and why are you making a big deal about it??? Why does it matter, because SCOUTING made a promise to these Cubs of excitement and adventure, of going in the outdoors, and if your council uses the recruiting spiel mine does of "bow and arrows....bb guns...." WE NEED TO KEEP THAT PROMISE! (not shouting at you, Base, but in frustration to the folks you are dealing with). As to why you are making a big deal, because you, YES YOU BASE, care about your cubs, and want the best for them! You are tired of all the garbage that is hurting your Cubs, and have decided, "the heck with it I am going to give them the best program I can!" Illegitimus non carborundum

Ok has anyone modified the current nylon Switchback Gen 2s, specifically adding lower leg zippers so that you can take off the legs with the boots on? I've been playing with my gen 1 switchbacks in the snow, and love how they repel the snow to a degree, dry fast, and I can take them off without taking off the boots, thus keepign the snow from going everywhere.

Be advised that National at one time stated that OWL would be included in IOLS, so that you would only take one outdoor course for Webelos, Scouts, and Venturing. national did postpone that until this year, but some councils will accept IOLS in place of OWLS. Plus as has been mentioned OWLS is not required by national, yet anyway, but councils can require it.

if memory serves, the SE has to approve the NCS app. So if he wants to limit it to employees only.

"Nut, In some places, council will conduct a "Spring Roundup" for Tigers in May or early June (some places don't let out until June) just before school lets out. They are prospective scouts prior to June 1, so they can still change their mind, and on June 1 they officially join. My oldest started visiting packs the last week in April of Kindergarten year. We were invited on a pack camp out in May (glad I went as the TCDL had an emergency and couldn't make it so I had to run the den) and he officially joined June 1.

Here's my opinion. 1) Soccer and Scouting is not a good idea. We already have varsity teams and only the LDS wards use them to my knowledge. Outside the LDS, nobody uses the program, or even know about it, and they are probably the model; for Soccer and Scouting since varsity combines sports and scouting. heck I've heard anecdotal stuff saying it's a complete flop. And if Scouting is so key, then why " Soccer and Scouting" and not the other way around? 2) others have pointed out the expense of having multilingual information. It does cost money that could be spent elsewhere. heck I have seen literature from a non-profit in the UK ask in a newsletter if they could stick to English only instead of the 5-7 languages it was printed in, otherwise they may have to discontinue the newsletter in order to keep programs running. 3) My expereince is that folks who do not want to integrate into US society will not unless forced to. So trying to recruit them is pointless. Saw that with my sister-in-law's mother who would not speak English unless absolutely had to. BUT those who do want to integrate WILL join. Saw that with one family last year. 4) THE BSA IS KNOWN FOR THE OUTDOORS AND "SCOUTING IS OUTING;" IF WE DON'T DELIVER THE PROMISE PEOPLE WILL LEAVE. ( caps for emphasis). I am embarrassed to say it, but I discovered that my Hispanic youth quit b/c we didn't go in the outdoors enough. And this was coming from a pack that had 2 campouts, and 2 den outdoor trips ( 3rd campout was cancelled due to water problems at the camp)last year, and had 3 camp outs in a 5 week period this year so far! WE MUST KEEP OUR FOCUS ON KEEPING THE 'OUTING IN SCOUTING!" ( OK this time I am shouting

Base, WOW, I thought I had problems with folks realizing that Cub do need to camp, and want to for that matter. #1 complaint from Webelos I heard at CSDC was why there was no Webelos overniter. #2 was why can't we cook. WWWWWWWEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLL #2 is easy to fix and the Webelos WILL be cooking. #1 i am in the process of getting scout troops to sponsor an overniter. Like I said, get together with a few other packs and get your own multipack program going. if it's a success, it will grow. Good luck.

Base, A DD is basically a DE that supervises another DE. They usually have expereince and seniority to be a Field Director, supervising over 3 or more DEs, but there are no FD spots open for them. Just like a DE, the DD is suppose to help with recruiting new members, organizing new units, helping organize events via the district committee, etc. The challenge is when the DE that the DD is supervising leaves, and the DD is responsible for both districts. That can be very challenging, and hurt one or both districts. In reference to no cub scout activities for your district, let me take a guess, a lot of 'olg guard" who believe that Cubs shouldn't go camping, right? How about a bunch of you CMs get together and organize a multi-pack activity?

J, Thanks for the update. Never heard of that before and can say it wouldn't be feasible in my neck of the woods. We already have geographically large districts, but small populated ones. The DD I mentioned above was covering two districts for a total of 6 counties that may have had 80-90 units max. He bought a new car and about 8.5-9 months later had over 120K miles on it from driving all over the territory. His district ended up splitting into two districts once again.

Here's my list of occasions Meetings: Den, pack, RT, district, council etc. EXCEPTION: when I would be doing a role in the meeting requiring an outfit, i.e. OA dance exhibition. Activities: Camping, PWD, cub mobile, rocket derby etc. EXCEPTION: when the uniform would be inappropriate, i.e. swimming party, Summer Olympics, etc, OR I am in costume (Gandalf the White, I mean Merlin the Magician will making an appearance at PWD promoting 2011 CSDC: Knights of the Roundtable)

Base, At least in my neck of the woods, Campmasters are volunteers who help check in and out units using camp, provide help if needed, and basically runt he the camp so the ranger can get a day off, or more than likely, work on a major project uninterrupted. They do go through training, usually a weekend long, and are supervisory as they don't run things. In reference to schools, BSA does have one: National Camping School. It's a week long, focuses on different areas of camp, i.e. Aquatics, COPE, etc. and WILL fail you if you don't meet the requirements. At the time I did COPE, you were also certified to run a climbing and rappelling tower, but I think they separated the two. All I know is that after working on a tower 1/2 of summer in the UK ( other 1/2 was on the range) and NCS COPE, I could handle any wall. While I knew the specs and safety involved in rocks and going down clifs (I did go down the White Cliffs of Dover ) I would defer to an expert on running it.

Seattle, Talk to the Order of the Arrow as they may have some resources for ya. grant you in my neckof the woods the focus is Boy Scout uniforms, but they maybe able to help on the cub scout side. Also talk to the various thrift stores. Our SCOUTREACH guy has the market cornered on "experienced" uniforms in my district. Every single thrift store knows to contact him ASAP if they receive uniform to sell. Also check to see if your council has SCOUTREACH.

No Prob. I'm an archivist by training: MA in history and a MLS concentrated on archives adn records management. Wife got me into the medical librarian field.

I'm curious as to the 80 units number too as that is a new one to me.

'77, While national doesn't prohibit sheath knives, just strongly discourages them, some councils have banned them from council properties (looks like my lodge's OA ceremony team may need to rethink the scalping knives one or two carry as my council has banned them ) Also some local laws prohibit them, i.e. Cary, NC ( I wonder how restaurants deal with that law )

DDs and SDDs are basically folks who could be FDs, but there are no openings for an FD position. They usually are running their own district, and supervising 1-2 DEs. The bad thing about DDs and SDDs are the following 1) if on of their DEs quits or moves, then they are responsible for both their district and the vacant district (I knew 1 DD leave b/c of the constant travel with a vacancy) and 2)they are on the short list for promotion to FD when a FD vacancy comes about in the region.

One thing my council has done is use their summer camp Venturing Crew, i.e. all their summer camp staff, year round to offer programs. Sometimes they do get paid, most of the times they don't. And that does include director level folks. Most staffers love the camp so much, they are willing to work with enough advance notice. It's doable, but it is a lot of work. We have a full time pro whose only job is to supervise the programs at the main scout reservation comprising Camp Boddie, formerly know as Camp Bonner, and the Pamlico Sea Base. He's the one that organizes and get staff.

No, With all due respect, I have met a few UCs like Base describes. Heck I met a DC like that. One of my most vivid memories was him after going through the Ordeal, come up to folks saying he's going for Vigil and has his Vigil name already picked out! From Base's previous posts on other topics, his council sounds like it has some problems. So please don't take it personally. That said, I have also met some great UCs who are a valuable resource to unit leaders. My current UC is one of those, and I am going to hate it when he sells his house and move. Luckily the house is known to be haunted and there has been few folks interested in it.

Ok I admit I am an Uniform Policeman. I have had a very long conversation over in the groups at MYSCOUTING.ORG, adn I admit the ...You Might Be a Uniform Policeman thread was started by me as a joke towards myself. Part of it is that my troop was a uniformed troop with weekly inspections that counted towards the Patrol of the Year Award. Part of it is that I did work for national supply. part of it is that I want scouts to wear the uniform properly and take pride in it. Now I admit for certain activities I would have no problem taking someone to the side, in view of others of course, and taking to them privately about why they needed a uniform for an event and why they can't do the event. Biggest ones that come to mind are parades, and the Memorial Day Service project. Maybe a few other special events. But I will not turn away a scout from a meeting or campout. Nor will I publicly humiliate someone over not having an uniform on. THAT is wrong. Why am I saying this, b/c of an incident at my son's karate place. One of the other students is having major family issues and has been staying with friends. She's been unable to get things, like her karate uniform. She showed up to practice and the instructor humiliated her publicly and forbid her to practice. And since she was was staying with another student, she had had to stay and do nothing. I do not want scouting to be like that. And while I am a big proponent of the uniform, it is 1 of 7 methods.

Desert, OK. Hopefully my tone is not one of those unscoutlike ones as that is not my intent. I'm a librarian by profession, and my job is to get the correct info needed to folks. I try to go to the authoritative sources (at work it might be a medical society's guidelines, but for scouting sources like the IG et al) and present the info. Heck sometimes I comment that I might not agree with the policy, i.e. suits at EBORs ( I am a pro uniform, whether the offical national uniform or tie dye t-shirt and jeans I've seen one crew select), but I do cite policy and try to be helpful. On a different note, as this thread has gotten off track a bit, what I do not want is someone not be able to participate at all b/c they do not have a uniform. But that's what a new thread is all about.

'Rat, Drmbear and Scoutbox, Its kinda understood you don't wear something you haven't earned. So if you haven't been to Philmont, you don't wear the bull. the IG states the following http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx Jackets and Their Insignia The Philmont bull emblem is especially designed for the red wool jac-shirt to be sewn on the left side above the pocket. On all jackets the Philmont Scout Ranch, Philmont Training Center, or high-adventure base emblems may be worn centered on the right pocket or in the same relative position if there is no pocket. Also here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/08e.aspx Canoe base loon, worn on left side of jacket or jac-shirt above pocket. Philmont bull, worn on left side of jacket or jac-shirt above pocket. One of the problems with the IG is that is that when items are discontinued, they are no longer included in the IG. Great example is the Leadership Corps patches of the 1970s-80 were authorized to be worn on the right pocket of the jacshirt. But that is not included in the current IG. Ditto the wearing of the "Varsity-Venture Letter," which venture crews, now called venture patrols could earn. Or new stuff comes out after the IG is published. FL Sea Base has a Shark that goes over the left pocket. I'm now curios what Bechtel is going to have.

I admit I haven't read the entire thing, just parts of it. 1) In reference to increasing CS retention, a few things may need to occur. A) reducing it 4 year program ( T=2, W=3, B=4, and Webelos=5). yes this may hurt numbers initially, but I bet this would increase retention by avoiding burnout. B)Update the program. By this I mean that some of the requirements have been around since before I was a Cub. requirements need to updated. Also the handbooks need a major updating with their illustrations. Heck a few of those today look identical to the ones I had. C) MORE OUTING IN CUB SCOUTING!!!!! And yes I am shouting. Yes my son is breezing along, wiht a good chunk of advancement being done via school. Get more outdoorsy on the cub Level. I know at least in my neck of the woods yo still have some folks who say Cubs shouldn't camp. Guess what, I lost a Cub Scout because we were not camping enough! As for uniforms that is not an issue if you have a program that folks want to be a part of. Heck the BSA uniform is easily identifiable, and doign away with a uniform will hurt the ' Brand"