Eagle92

Unfortunately the folks that Dan describes are the ones that ruin it for me and many. I've met a few like that. Heck I was amazed when i was told that there are folks out there who do not consider Pinchot a true environmentalist because he believed in using natural resources, until I met a few.

My thoughts. SCOUTING IS OUTING and it's expected that folks will be outdoors. The knots are recognition for additional training and service. District and council level folks are needed to support program. That retired school teacher who helps out at CSDC and various Cub scout events is just as valuable as the den leader, b/c without the district folks, unit folks would have to take time away from their sons and cubs to put on activities. Ditto the Retired gov employee who helps secure such items as bullets, rifles, and ropes and his NRA certification or various Boy Scout activities. Heck most of the district folks I know HAVE been in the field, and for whatever reason, usually health, cannot keep up like they use to in the field. Heck best example I can give of that is a big FOS donor who was once an SM, led a Philmont contingent,etc etc who visits every outdoor activity he can and makes sure that the council camps have what they need to provide program, i.e. workign it out that his company would provide meals at summer camp when the dining hall burned down, and then being a major contributor for rebuilding the dining hall. As for wearing knots, that your call, wear them or don't wear them, it's your call. UNLESS you are a Sea Scout leader who is limited to 6 knots on the whites and SDBs, and know knots on the working khakis. HMM wonder if I can wear knots and patches on the Dress khakis? BTW Poh, I do have a pic of BP not in uniform receiving a salute form a Boy Scout. That's the only photo I've seen of him with a scout and he not being in uniform, other than the BROWNSEA photos, but hey that was the first campout!

Kudu, If it's any consolation, I know of one Cub that has worn an external fram pack with his gear in the woods. Looked like a helpless turtle, and did need help, but when I talk about backpacking and Philmont, eyes light up. Now whenever he puts on his school bookbag, he puts it on like i showed him to put on his backpack. Also has a HA jar collecting money. Stosh, AMEN! I know folks who didn't make it to Eagle, but their knowledge of the outdoors is so great that even today, after 15 years of being out of scouts, I would trust them with my life inthe outdoors. EDITED: To paraphrase a popular joke in my district: Those Life for Life folks have forgotten more about camping than most folks ever learn, and they still know more than you! (This message has been edited by eagle92)

These are a few situations i know of. #1 One unit folds. Just before folding, they sell ALL of their equipement: tents, lanterns, trailer, etc. to my unit dirt cheap. Some of the scouts transfer over, some don't. Don't know where all the money went, but those coming into the troop did have troop accounts. #2 My unit's first CO wanted us gone as we no longer met their purpose according to the new IH. This was after we discussed the theft, vandalism, and damages the troop had encountered (a ransacked storage room, a brand new fiberglass storage shed used as a dart board that destroyed a bunch of tents, lanterns, and other gear). No money was given to the CO when the troop moved to a new CO, nor did they pay us for any damages. (an aside: When that IH was replaced a 4 later, a new IH came in, wanted a troop and pack and got it. New IH was very surprised to learn that a troop had been there for 20 years as no one told him about the troop). #3 Unit's 2nd CO got a new IH with a very strong anti-BSA bias. (She called the cops on us for trespassing when we were holding an ECOH that was scheduled and was running late due to us cleaning up). Long story short, we moved to a 3rd CO keeping everything: unit number, money, equipment, etc. How we kept the money I do not know, but believe she didn't know how much was in the account and didn't go after it. Knowing the IH she would have kept it if she knew how much was in the account. (another aside, that CO has now merged with the current CO)

My den just did that in Nov, but we stuck with red. We also had the OA come out and do some dances and tell stories. that was so popular, that we had them come back the next week and dance for those dens interested. Kinda helps when your den chief is the chapter's VP of Indian Affairs.

'732, I know. When i worked for supply, I actually tried the old stuff in the nozzle can back when it first came out as I refused to sell something I hadn't tried or knew about. It was a mess.

PE, One reason why I am a big fan of having older scouts teach younger scouts, keeps the older scouts proficient. My favorite item to use I found by accident: old time "pump drill." it's a flat, round piece of wood with a hole to put a dowel rod through. Attach a string to two sides of the rounder that then go atop the dowel and spin the rounder so the string wraps around the dowel. With a steady up and down motion, the dowel will produce fire via friction. Found that out while playing with a pump drill before the flint head was placed on the dowel and smoke was produced.

My thought when I first heard about LNT principles in detail, believe it or not is was May 2009 at a Cub campout, my thought was " gee this is what the BSA has been doing for a long time already." A lot of the LNT principles were done by my troop growing up, and it was called "common sense." Now I do admit, I have seen some shocking things with scouts and leaving their campsites wrecks. I've worked to many summer camps and district/council events otherwise..

I did the church league cabbage ball in elementary school. In HS I lettered in JROTC Drill Team all four years, and in cheerleading SR year. Lettered in college for 2 years in Cheerleading, until they kicked everyone with an X chromosome off the squad the 3rd year. Then I was paid to be the mascot

Seattle, Can I use my flint and steel or hot spark instead? At least you can knock the snow off the wood. Down in SE LA where I grew up, you had to deal with soaking wet wood from rain, AND LIKE IT! nothing a little lint from the old belly button couldn't fix though.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Cub Scout blue uniform with the different colored neckers. Same hat for 2 years and same slide for 2 years. The year I became a Webelos was the first year Webelos were allowed to wear the BS uniform, so I did that with Webelos modifications: blue loops, tricolors, webelos necker, slide, hat, and... Flag over the BSA strip. Boy Scouts was the standard ODL uniform with baseball cap until I went to Brownsea 22 and was awarded my Smokey Bear for completing the course. Then the Smokey Bear was worn until as an adult I got the Expedition hat when it first came out. The went back to Smokey Bear in the past 3-4 years. Sea Scout uniform was a "Distinct Identity Uniform," or as some Sea Scout leaders on other threads called it a "piratical outfit" of either royal blue polo with First Class Anchor and Ship's number, or royal blue sweat shirt with same info , and blue jeans. If we wanted to, we could wear a navy blue beret with the navy blue First Class Anchor round patch on it. 2 of us did it, and I wish now I hadn't traded that beret when I went to the UK, c'est la vie. BUT the best "uniform" I ever wore was as an adult, and it was the "COPE uniform" I wore consisting of helmet, summer camp staff t-shirt, harness (one instructor wore a Swiss seat instead), and camouflaged pants. Comfortable, lots of pockets and loops for gear, and very utilitarian on the high course. Only got to wear it to the dinning hall, and possibly assembly if we were not too late, when on the high course. Usually we were walking in fopr dinner while scouts were walking out the dining hall. "C.O.P.E., What a rush!"

But thne you have a fuzzy patch in a place where a different patch is suppose to be. Please don't tell me that Scouts today are that lazy that they cannot sew their own patches on. I know how difficult sewing a patch on a pocket can be, but it is not rocket science. Also by using such stuff as badge bond, badge magic ad nauseum, it does leave residue that makes the shirt unserviceable when the scout outgrows it.

One of the things I was taught in my troop, in my original lodge, in JROTC, and in a couple of jobs I've had: You don't expect others to do things you would not do yourself.

Why is it that most of the problems in Scouting revolve around adults? Why do adults do what youth can? Why do we not expect more of our youth today? Stuff that 25, 50, 75 years ago they would be doing are now done by adults.

Only time I ever heard of any complaints about my wife and I sharing the same room or tent during a scouting function, was when she visited me at summer camp the week after we got married. Some of the leaders didn't like it when they saw us exiting the office/bedroom in the welcome center. CD handled their complaints when approached.

Maybe a sewing MB and making it required for 1st Class? I do remember my son sewing a button as a TC. My wolf den made red vest for their American Indian Elective in Nov. Greta skill to know

Ok 1 more idea that may need to wait until all the info comes out: the new CPR Course. I know I am waiting to get certified in the new course, and am teaching the old course until told otherwise and am certified to teach the new course.

Ok I got a few more ideas. Look at local places that may be able to help support program. We had a local museum come by and provide info on what they can do with both Cubs and Scouts. Grant you it's "indoor camping" but it can be a nice alternative whent he weather if really foul. AND they get to play with fire, albeit in a controlled experiment. At a council camporee, we had several area business provide info on their services. Best part is that not only were they talking wbout what they can help out with, they were also selling stuff too. Got my service kit for a stove there, and at a deep discount. Another idea would be to ask the RT participants what they want. A final idea, one to put the "OUTING in ScOUTING," is to have folks talk about equipement: boots, gps, etc.

If you do the velcro route, you will also need to do velcro numbers if you are in both unit and district PORs or involved with 2 different units ( Boy Scouts are green, Cub Scouts are red) Me personally I don't like the velcro route, but do see it as an affordable alternative to multiple shirts. EDITED: forgot to add you will also need to velcro the trained strip if involved in a troop and a pack( green and tan for Scouts, red and tan for cubs)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Why is summer so important? 1) It keeps the Cubs busy with scouting opportunties year round. So it keep their interests. 2) It gives you a great opportunity to put the "OUTING in (Cub) ScOUTING" ( with apologies to GBB, I love that quote of his!) Yes Cubs want the outdoors too. 3)Some activities we have doen include the follwoing Olympics Pool Party campout with local baseball team Another Baseball game water nite Fishing Rodeo Star Wars Nite (Ok this was indoors and we took advantage of a local library program due to foul weather at the last minute. But who doesn't like the 501st Vader's Fist Star Wars reenactors?) idea we are considering Drive In Movie Nite and campout at the CO.

I have 2 long sleeve uniform shirts: one from the 70s, and the new CU. What I don't like about the CU is the Swiss tab is to low for me, putting the roll in the elbow. I'm always pushing it up. over the elbow. Other than the ' smokes pocket' it ain't too bad. Now the 70s shirt is lightweight and very comfortable in the summer. With the "swank" I have on left sleeve (CSP, BA22 Strip, Vet bar, Unit number, POR, and trained strip) the trained strip gets covered when i roll it up.

Noles hit it on the nose: Fire bans. In my neck of the woods we had several months where it almost alternated between ban and no ban on a weekly or biweekly basis. In fact one council event almost, stress almost, didn't have a campfire b/c of a ban. It has really gotten so bad that some units just use the camp stoves all the time for cooking. That said, where there's a will, there is a way to get a fire going, even with a ban in place I'm willing to bet if you really wanted to get some fire building skills done and a ban was in place, if you talked to the local fire department, explained the situation, they may be able to assist in some way. They may be able to provide some equipment that allows you to build a fire in a controlled container, or may allow yo to build a fire, and they have "expired" fire extinguishers and/or a pumper truck. We had a local agency come to CSDC and allowed the Cubs to " play with fire," i.e. use a fire extinguisher to put out a fire they created. They came out with some cool equipment to get it going, allowed every Cub to put out the fire with an "expired" extinguisher ( by expired I mean one that was used and couldn't be legally used again, but did have chemical in it still), AND helped fertilize the field with the chemical. The one time the ranger didn't mind us making a mess and not cleaning up after ourselves

AM, Expereince I described was over 11 years ago. The new SE fixed a lot of the problems. The newest and current SE is program oriented, and is getting our program back on track. BP, Well said as always!

Moose, yep it's online now, and at the time it wasn't. But the summer camps I've been to, 3 in the US as an adult, offer those courses at summer camp, and that was done at the May meeting. Plus my BSA Lifeguard cert wasn't expired yet. KUDU, Your site is where the presenter got all his info from. It brought back memories, and the only reason why it wasn't #1 on my list was because food wasn't involved. Gotta love it when you can sample the topic.

Thomas, Why are volunteers running program at the troop level? The Scouts should be running the program, not the adults as we should be mentoring and advising. So spreading volunteers thin shouldn't be a concern. Yes the PLC should be planning and teaching, adults getting involved only as needed. What you describe would take away from the younger scouts expereicne of interacting witholer scouts, creating a Web III priogram because there would be no older scouts to plan and execute program. Take away the older scouts working with and leading the younger ones, you take away a vital element of Scouting.