Eagle92

Oak, Did I say Insignia Guide in my original quote and not the WB21C Administrative Guide? Sorry IG has no restrictions on the number of knots anyone can wear, including Sea Scouts and Sea Scout leaders ( Sea Scout restrictions are in the Sea Scout Manual). The WB21C 2008 Administrative Guide states on page 26 under Uniforms for Staff the following: 4. It is recommended that Wood Badge Staff members not wear more than nine square knots on their uniforms. Since this thread has mutated a little, what I find interesting is that according to the WB21C guide, participants 1. During a Wood Badge course, participants wear their official Scouting uniforms (official Scout leader shirt, Scout pants, leather or web belt, and official socks) with the shoulder loops signifying their Scouting program. Each person has the option of wearing uniform shorts, long pants, or a skirt. and 3. As the symbol of membership in Troop 1, participants will wear a Troop 1 neckerchief held in place with a participants woggle (prepared during the Day One troop meeting). So my question is this: Do Venturing leaders whose units do not use the official uniforms, instead going the Polo shirt and Jeans route, or even the Tie-Dye T shirt route have to buy uniform to participate? Also what about Sea Scout leaders since they don't wear neckers?

Congratulations on completing your ticket.

Why I think "program freaks" as one of my PDL-1 buddies said make the best pros. They have the background from working summer camp to realize how important program is, as well as operating on a budget to provide it. IMHO you need balance between the "Red Jackets" and the "Suits." Sorry cannot call it grey suits as the official dress uniform of the BSA is a blue blazer, grey slacks, et al Seriously though a balence on the executive board is needed as we all have a role to play. Sometimes the PTB, and everyone at times, don't realize that without the "Red Jackets" you don't have folks running the program and without the "Suits" you don't have the resources to have a program.

Seattle, Serving on the exec board is part of their job description. From the current District Operations Manual national puts out found here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/commissioner/pdf/34739.pdf The district chairman is a member of the council executive board. The district commissioner meets with the council commissioner and other district commissioners on a regular basis. The chairman of each district operating committee may be a member of the corresponding council committee. Also the COR is a voting member per http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack/chorr.aspx The chartered organization representative may become a member of the district committee and is a voting member of the council.

What I did was buy a starter kit, specifically the Star Wars Naboo Fighter Kit, that included the following: NABOO Fighter model rocket Wadding parachute launch pad R2D2 launcher All I had to buy extra was batteries and engines. Read all the safety instruction in hte kit, helped boys put it together, went to the field, prayed it would work, and WHAM it launched. Total time to prep, launch, and recover was bout 2 hours of work, and one night of glue drying. With the great weather tomorrow, I'm thinking launching some rockets before PWD. And yes if you bought yourself a Star Wars Naboo Fighter rocket kit, you might be a Star Wars fanatic

Well I'm old school, plus not a wood carver, so I follow the KISS principle. That and I remember the Scout staves I saw at BA22, so I recommend going to KUDU's site and using the diagrams he has to put stuff on it. I got the handout on his site at BA22, all of the staff there had variations of it, and I made a quick and easy 5' version of it when I staffed JLTC. I finally got a staff right after 20+ years, and have been complimented numerous times on it. Basically I put the inch marks up to 18" and then 1' marks. I also put Air to Ground signals and a solar still diagram on it. I put 54' of black paracord around it for emergencies and it doubles as a grip. I put a few hiking shields on it, as well as a Turks' head knot. Did the holes for fishing gear (horizontally into the wood) which are covered by the paracord, an put firebuilding materials (vertically into the stave). I also lashed on a carabiner. Sometimes it does make it awkward to use, but it is useful. I also have the orienteering holes in mine. I haven't tried the scale idea on the sheet yet. Maybe youngest son's stave when the time comes. Edited: I used a wood burning tool for my markings. Other ideas include burning the pack number and his position. Coolest thing I ever saw woodcarved was a OA drumstand. It had the CSP on one side, OA flap carved into it, the OA sashes on the third, and BP's portrait on the fourth.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

OGE, Definitely correct in that I've seen other units go off the reservation. But it's as if 90% of the LDS units I've are off the reservation. One of the problems IMHO is leadership. the units that do go off usually have no or poorly trained leaders. Or leaders who want to do things their way. Seeing that locally with one unit: leaders don't care about training or district activities. they want to do things their way. No problem with that, just don't complain when you don't know what's going on, or your charter is not being renewed, b/c you you don't show up to RT and know when event deadlines are, or that ALL leaders must now have YPT or they are dropped form the charter, meaning you now have no leaders to keep your unit going.

RRR, #1 choosing to wear knots is personal preference. As noted there has been numerous discussion on that topic. I will say this to everyone, regardless of whether they wear them or don't: PLEASE GET IT RECORED THAT YOU EARNED IT AND KEEP A COPY OF THE CERTIFICATE! I emphasize that because there are training codes for them in SCOUTNET, and since training of some sort is involved, usually everything to be considered trained and then some, having it recorded that you earned XYZ Knot could verify that you are indeed trained. I had soem training record problems and my Training Award was proof I did the training. #2 I can tell you from first hand experience than DEs do work their butts off. Grant you the Heroism Award IS a big deal and would have definitely been there if I was still a DE, but trust me their time is limited and usually scheduled in advance. #3 In reference to the lying, don't know exactly what they lied about, but agree with ya that it is WRONG!

This topic comes up frequently, and there was a very long thread on it a few months back, 10 pages worth, and I think a spin off. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=292052#id_293268 My observations on the matter include the following 1) LDS units need to follow the program as laid out by the LDS church. From that discussion thread, reading some of the LDS literature on the net, personal observations, and comments from LDS scouters, the units I have encountered are NOT (caps for emphasis)following the LDS version of Scouting. Yes there are differences between LDS units and everyone else, but the LDS program does minimize that. Are there things I disagree with the LDS program? I admit there are. I wish LDS units did not separate their 11yo. Scouts from the rest of the troop. I also agree with the poster whose comment lead to this spin off, that just as scouts are getting teh KSAs to lead a troop, they are being moved up to a team or Crew. Again from obersvations the 11 yo scouts are treated as Webelos, and the 12-13yos. have too much adult intervention do to the lack of experienced youth leaders. But if LDS units followed the LDS plan differences would be minimized IMHO. 2) LDS units need to integrate and participate into their districts and councils more. In the councils I have been in, LDS leaders and units have been rather standoffish, i.e. not attending district and council events like RT, Camporee, summer camp, etc, and the constant turnover in leadership presents communication problems. When I was a DE, it took be over 2 months to get in contact with the SM as folks would not return my phone calls, emails, leaders changed and people didn't know who the new leaders were, etc. As an OA chapter adviser I went through the same thing trying to contact the LDS troop. It can be very frustrating. There has only one exception to the problem above. One district I was in had a bishop who had a very strong scouting background, made sure his units and leaders were involved. He was also the District Chairman, so that helped matters 3) LDS leaders need training. In all my time as a trainer, not once have I seen LDS leaders at training. And to be honest the only trained LDS scouters I have encountered are the ones who are dedicated to Scouting, and are not just called to be a Scouter. Again this is not meant to be anti LDS, far from it. But meant to help out. Now what can district to to improve. 1) make the effort to welcome the LDS scouters. 2) Acknowledge some of the differences in the LDS and the current BSA program, and make accomadations. And I am sure our LDS brothers will enlighten us on some of the problems they have faced.

FYI Field book is on clearance at SCOUTSTUFF.ORG So a new book is on the way.

The rocket kits will suggest what size engines to use. if memory serves, 1/2A and A are the same diameter, B and C engines are teh same diameter EXCEPT C11-6, which is the size of D engines. I found a deal on C11-6 engines, 30 engines for about $20 with shipping, only to find they do not fit the C size engine mounts one I got them for. SOOOOOOOOO I had to buy a bigger rocket for my engines (This message has been edited by eagle92)

This is my expereince as a former BSA certified climbing instructor, back in the day NCS certified COPE directors also were certified in climbing and rapelling, so the course may have changed. The BSA certification is good for climbing walls and towers, but I would stongly recommend going to pros for climbing cliffs, rocks, etc.

Just make sure your Den Cheif doesn show off all his cool toys Seriously though, having your DC or a Scout or Venturer come in and do a demo is awesome. AND I wouldn't limit it to just Webelos, I'f have them do if for all new cubs and their parents going camping for the first time. I did that last year with my Tigers, and again with My Wolves and Tigers. It helped.

First time my pack did it, we had 2 stations: a six rocket launch pad (2x4 with launch posts monted on it connected to 2 saw horses) and my launch pad. We were there about 2 hours and everyone had fun, about 40 showed up. Secodn time we had the original 2 rigs, and 2 other launch pads. still spent 2 hours, but I know my son launched 5 times.

Depends. With my 2 man backpacking tent, its stuffing. With the 6 man family tent, it's rolling as it's the only way to get a tent that size inthe bag.

Looking at 2013 Jambo requirements for leaders and staff, WB21C is not mentioned. From here https://summit.scouting.org/en/Jamboree2013/Pages/Registration.aspx SCOUTMASTER QUALIFICATIONS All Jamboree Scoutmasters, First, Second and Third Assistant Scoutmasters must meet the following requirements: Must have a current BSA membership with a Boy Scout troop or Varsity Scout team. Scoutmasters must be at least 21 years of age by the first day of the jamboree. For Third Assistant Scoutmasters, be at least 18 years of age by the first day of the jamboree but not yet 21 years of age by the last day of the jamboree. Be currently serving as a Scoutmaster or Varsity Coach. For Second and Third Assistant Scoutmasters, be currently serving in any adult troop or team leadership position. Completed Scoutmaster or Varsity Scout Coach leader specific training. Completed Youth Protection Training within one year of the first day of the jamboree. Be able to serve as a role model of physical fitness. Have participated in the pre-jamboree training experience. Have filed a Jamboree Personal Health and Medical record with the council jamboree committee before the pre-jamboree training. Be approved by the local council. Submit all registration fees per the local council's payment schedule. VENTURING ADVISOR QUALIFICATIONS Venturing Advisors must meet the following requirements: Must have a current BSA membership with a Venturing crew. Be at least 21 years of age by the first day of the jamboree. Completed Venturing Leader Specific training. Completed Youth Protection training within one year of the first day of the jamboree. Be actively serving as a crew Advisor. Be able to serve as a role model of physical fitness. Have participated in the pre-jamboree training experience. Have filed a Personal Health and Medical Record before the pre-jamboree training with the council jamboree committee. Be approved by the local council. Submit all registration fees per the local council's payment schedule. staff qualifications Must have a current BSA membership. Completed Youth Protection Training within one year of the first day of the jamboree. Ability to arrive on site at the jamboree up to but not limited to one week before the jamboree as deemed necessary by the service director of the area selected to serve in to receive training and assist in the final preparations for troop arrivals. Be at least 16 years of age by the first day of the jamboree. Submit all registration fees per the published payment schedule. Complete any jamboree-specific training as deemed necessary by the service director of the area selected to serve in. File a Personal Health and Medical Record as instructed by the deadline. Be able to serve as a role model of physical fitness.

Everything happens for a reason. Good luck with that troop.

'Nut, May I suggest the following? 1) Allow the cub launching the rocket into the area to set up the rocket. I know I keep track of teh safety key to insure safety. Another thing I've seen is the Webelos make a "launch" circuit with the battery being able to be removed easily. basically it's wires, button, and a 9volt battery hook up. The battery doubles as the safety key. Adult is responsible for removing the battery and key after launches. 2) have a "Mission Control" chair thatteh cubs can sit in, do the countdown, and launch the rockets. Trust the the thrill is there with the kids lauching themselves.

You never know who will get the SB, unless you put in the nomination. We had a guy who has been working in the trenches since BEFORE he became a leader, in that he was promoting Scouting to potential COs trying to get units started. After that he is a volunteer with several of the units he helped start. THEN he works summer camp, but instead of a salary, he wants kids to go to camp from his units instead. Needless to say he's in it for the right reasons. BUT for some people, he's a major PITA as he is a by the book player, doesn't mind speaking his mind and telling folks they are wrong, willing to try new ideas when other say it won't work, etc, etc. His only purpose is for the kids, and if it's in their best interest, or will work for them, he's their most vociferous proponent. Also when he is wrong, which I admit is rare, he will admit it. Well he got the SB. Were some upset yep, but did he deserve it, absolutely. Another SB receipient was the ASM who's been active 20+ years. he's been in and serving in the trenches. Nobody would expect him b/c he's a worker in the trenches, serving the boys. But someone put in a nomination and he got it. Key is if you think someone is worthy submit the nomination.

Some idea to make a nice event. 1) bring drinks and snacks 2) use a launchpad that allows them to put the rocket on. We had someone design a multiple rocket launcher on two saw horses. Pretty cool BUT adults have to load up the rockets. 3)let the kids press the launch button.

Kids love them and Supply has a sale on them Now the kids will need to get kits, engines, and wadding. But Supply is selling BULK packs. Wizard and Viking rockets from Estes is approx $10.50 http://www.estesrockets.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=name&dir=asc&q=wizard Supply has a 12 packs fro both for for $20.00 http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=179WRK&prodid=179WRK^8^01CLO& http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=179VRK&prodid=179VRK^8^01CLO& Wadding is about $3.00 http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=17991&prodid=17991^8^01CLO& a packof 3 engines is goign for about $3-$5 compared to about $10 - $11 http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=179EPS&prodid=179EPS^8^01CLO& large packs of engines (24 engines and wadding) about $20 http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=179EPL&prodid=179EPL^8^01CLO& and the $15 controller to launch everything is only $3 from supply http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=17993&prodid=17993^8^01CLO& Only thing missing is the launch pad. Supply doesn't have them. Need a nice large field to launch in and it's so easy, even I can do it. LOTS OF FUN!!!!!!!!!!! ( and I am shouting 'cause I a CS leader!)

Gotta say I too am caught up in the PWD madness. I try not to be as bad as some dads I've seen, but after the practice race last nite, and the upset look on my son's face, I asked him if wants to redo the car, specifically removing weights in one location and moving them, he said yes. Yep I am goign to remove the weights for him as I do not have enough time to cut a new car for him and have him sand and paint in time for saturday, but he will be doing the gluing and painting. Now I admit how some dads can get upset with cubs playing with cars before the race. My car, my district has a leaders' division, had a dragon's head and wings on it to promote Cub Scout day camp. One of son's friend's was carrying the car, and dropped it before I had a chance to put it on the track. Upset, you bet caause I did want to see it go down the track at least 1 time, even if it came in last place. Hopefully it'll get fixed ASAP.

Moose, Believe it or not, it's not the sports and BSA health forms that are the problem, try government regulations on forms. Docs can no longer just sign stuff or sign and date stuff, they have to sign, date, and time it, otherwise if it doesn't meet within certain time frames, Medicare/Medicaid won't pay a penny. Don't get me started on this topic.

John, SctDad is the man to ask as he's done it the past two years. But he's been kinda busy with his new job.

BSA is actually trying to do away with multiple forms, hence the 1 form. As for physicians and signing stuff, from personal observations and anecdotal evidence, the paperwork that they must do is killing that profession since they have to "sign, date, and time" just about everything. BSA needs to follow the KISS approach to the forms.