Eagle92

THEY BROUGHT BACK KNEE SOCKS?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?! Hot diggity! Now I can get the correct size knee socks. My inlaws got me a size too small. I can fit in them, but they are a pain to put on. LONG LIVE KNEE SOCKS! And yes i've been shouting for joy!

I have actually seen those on Puerto Rican Scouts. National does make them.

There is a WEBELOREE book somewhere that national produced. I think DEs have access to it via BSA's intranet. It has a bunch of ideas if memory serves.

As I noted in another thread on this topic, wording in the OAHB on when to wear the OA sash was changed in the late 1970s, early 1980s and is more ambiguous IMHO. Arrowman are allowed to wear the sash with the dress uniform, i.e. grey trousers, white shirt, blue blazer and tie, and you wouldn't wear that in the field.

I've seen a spoof patch for Klingon on a scouter. Crazy scouter wanted to use Klingon as his foreign language requirement for school. It didn't happen. Haven't seen Elvish yet.

GOOD LUCK!!!! One of the scouters in my district after college spent 6 months on the AT doing it. He loved it.

When did they do away with the earrings? I know the wife has a pair I gave her way back when. I do know National is slowly redoing all the neckers to make them full size, YEAH! I agree with the tropical hat, but I'd keep the webbing as I've used it to store insect repellent and other items in it. How about a CD-rom with every conceivable piece of paperwork on it?

Yep, unlike the military which doesn't allows medals and their ribbons to be worn simultaneously, you don't have to take off the knots to wear your BSA medals on special occasions. Now I did know of one gentleman who had his knots mounted on a ribbonbar, and he wouldn't wear the ribbon bar with his knots, but that was hiss call. I also knew of a Sea Scout Ship, ok they were a Sea Exploer ship at the time, that used the law enforcement Exploring ribbons instead of knots. Still have my Eagle ribbon on a ribbon bar.

Lodge didn't have a visibility problem, just the chapter. At the time we were the smallest chapter. HEHEHEHEH not any more.... In reference tp the flaps, I too do not like the policy and kept talking to those who could change it to do so. It kept getting brought up and voted down at almost every LCM, to the point some folks were getting upset it was kept being voted on. I think we finally had enough votes to change the policy, but national announced the no distinct border policy, and in protest the LCM voted to keep the restrictions. The proposal was to only allow flap purchase per lodge event. The entire lodge had to vote on the matter, and kept the restrictions of 7 hours of work. Luckily with only one flap border now, they can get their flap before Brotherhood. And I do know a few folks who try and gift flaps to new chapter members.

Gary, Just a possible explaination that's all. As for an SE being fired for not supporting the OA, could you give some more info as I have never heard of this being done, and wish it would have been done for one SE I knew. PM me with the details if need be.

One thing that got me thinking, maybe the Vigil Chair also does the role of AS in the Vigil Ceremony SOOOO It would be appropriate to call him the VVC?

Norule, I'd agree with that BUT in my lodge the flaps are restricted, you need to do 7 hours of cheerful service AS A MEMBER (caps for emphasis) in order to get one. While the lodge does have a 'trader" flap with no restrictions, no one i ssuppose to wear it nor do they want to wear it as it is rather plain compared to the regular flaps. Unfortunately the new members do not get a flap. They get their HB, sash, and dangle. If they want a flap, they have to buy a trader, which isn't suppose to be worn. One good thing about national's no distinct borders: new members can get a flap as soon as they go to another ordeal instead of waiting to get Brotherhood. ECM didn't want to produce an Ordeal flap, as they wanted folks to get Brotherhood. One reason why when one of my lodge's Ordeal flaps from the past goes on EBAY, they are pretty high $ I disagree with the above, and encouraged my new member to wear a trader flap if they wanted to, even though it's no suppose to be worn.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

In my expereince, districts usually have things planned out well in advance. BUT occasionally something comes up that may be due to an organization doing the event, or some other reason. Good example is the local minor league baseball team came to our RT this past week, and set up a "Scout Nite with the _____" in June. that came out of left field.

Depends. My OA chapter had a visibility problem, we were there, but b/c we were behind the scenes, some scout parents and no one in Cubs knew what the OA was or what we did. Chapter chief I was adviser wanted ideas to change that. We brainstormed, and said anytime a ceremony team is involved, ALL OA members can wear their sashes. So Crossovers, ECOHs, Call Outs etc all Arrowman are encouraged to wear their sash. Whenever the OA is working an event, whether in the trading post or running an event, Arrowmen should wear their sash, even if they have finished their work and are with their troop. We also encouraged new Arrowmen to wear their sash at the next COH after their Ordeal so they can be recognized. So wearing your sash would be OK in my chapter.

I'd like the Boy Scout rank pins larger. I'd also second the large silver eagle pin. Since I hate the plastic diamond that many CSs wear, and CANNOT be worn by Webelos in the Boy Scout uniform, make CS rank pins. EDITED One standard hat for Cubs.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Being an OA member is a definite plus. You have comraderie, you have chance for service, and as my wife put it today, "A chance to go camping with the older guys." But the best plus for me is talking to the cubs about how the OA takes care of our council camps and talking about how XYZ was built or done at the camp and how I helped with it. But I will say this; I have not had alot of time to do OA stuff due to the CS commitments. When the wife told me to go to the Ordeal this month and have a weekend to myself to "go camping with the older guys," I was ecstatic b/c I haven't been able to do that in over a year.

Short, I agree with ya. I just lost my 13yo, excuse me he just turned 14, Den chief to the Webelos Den because he has the outdoor KSAs that is needed that the new WDL doesn't have. The Webelos now have an experienced outdoorsman as a leader in that den chief. But unfortunately society doesn't expect teenagers to be able to do anything for themselves these days. I KNOW that a jury of folks who have no understanding of scouting would not believe some of the things that scouts are not only are capable of doing, but have done. I know that because I still have coworkers and managers at work surprised at some of the things I've learned and have done in scouting under the age of 18. What's kinda scary is that one of the coworkers should know better as she was an Explorer adviser back in the day! (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Correct. In the old 3 year CS program, You only had 1 year to get your AOL, and it was in May of 5th grade as most packs didn't work over the summer. LDS packs still follow the old 3 year program, so why would BSA make rules that would create a disadvantage for anyone?

HICO, I honestly believe it's the result of the widlfire the Scouts caused out west. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595074142/US-and-Utah-sue-Scouts.html I'm going to do some more research as I read somewhere that it was a summer camp program, but it appears that it may have been a troop that did this.

One other legal aspect that just hit me. If some jurisdictions will call an OA member tapping a candidate on the shoulder child abuse, what would those jurisdictions think if we left the scouts out on their own? Also someone mentioned coed scouting. If you look at Duke of Edinburgh award, it's a coed program and they go out without adults. Forgot what it's called in the US, and i beleive BSA is tryign to partnet with it liek Scout Association did, ut those journeys will be interesting if they water down DoE for the USA.

My thoughts on this topic, and I am not trying to be an apologist for national. 1) I THINK IT'S A SAD DAY FOR SCOUTING THAT PATROLS CAN NO LONGER GO OUT ON THEIR OWN And the caps and bold is not for shouting, but my utter remorse on this loss. 2) I do not think this is a reflection on the BSA's leadership, but rather a reflection of our litigious society AND the current trend to keep folks children as long as possible. Let's face it the BSA was sued b/c a bunch of scouts started a forest fire. They didn't have any adult supervision, and to a degree I do see the negligence. After all it was a summer camp wilderness survival class. BUT IT WAS NOT PATROL METHOD THAT CAUSED THIS SITUATIONS ( caps are both for emphasis and shouting at the folks at national on this as I think they forget the following). A patrol goingout on their own must have the permission of the SM and parents involved. In the cases I've read and talked about, usually it is a patrol of experienced scouts who have been together for a period of time and can handle the campout on their own. Again the forest fire was an ad hoc assortment of scouts who may not have known each other before summer camp, and the staff do not know there various KSAs. As for keeping folks children, I see it in all levels of society. Let's face it at one time 15-18 yos were working jobs to help support families, or even getting married and starting their own in the case of 18 yos. All of my coworkers said they do not want their kids working except for summer and once they complete college. I'm sorry but having an after school job is a good thing as it gives then some responsibility, gives them some pocket money so they don't keep asking you for it, and gives them some work expereince. Some scientists are also trying to say that humans do not have fully developed brains until age 25, and that is when they should be considered adults. But as have been proven on another thread here, history is replete with folks under 25 who have done astonishing things. And it's not just "great men" like Alexander, Washington, and Franklin, but just look at out vets who have served in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Gulf War I and our current servicemen who had been or are under 25. Also let's not forget that under the current medical law that will go into effect in 2014, adults up to age 25 can be on their parent's insurance, and in NJ up top age 32! I'm sorry but as 22 my wife got married and at 25 she was pregnant with our first son. BUT if the law was in effect then, or if we lived in NJ, she could still be on her parents insurance! That's crazy. Even in academia they do not consider their student adults. Now grant you most parents do play a role in paying for their kids, but not everyone. I did all the paperwork for grants, scholarships, and loans. I'm the one who paid the bills. All my mom did was A) provide me her 1040 so I could fill out FAFSA, and B) buy me a $100 car so that I could go back and forth from home, school, and work. And when it broke, I took out the loan for the next car. Yet there was constant "To the Parents of____" notices And the two grad schools I went to were just as bad. Here I am a 28 yo and 31yo, married grad student paying my own way, but bills and other notifications were sent "To the Parents________" And sadly I see it, and experienced it, in Scouting too. As a brand new ASM, I had folks discount my KSAs because I was a young adult. Ok so I was in the 18-25 range, but how many new scout leader had done backpacking, canoeing, orienteering, pioneering, rappelling, etc etc? As I mentioned elsewhere as a 21yo OA chapter adviser, who was active on the lodge executive board as a youth and a Vigil, I was told I knew nothing about OA, and that I was a puppet for the LA. As a 23 year old DE, I had volunteers who thought I knew nothing about scouting and district operations, despite being on the district committee as a volunteer for 2 years. Heck it wasn't until I told someone at an Ordeal, 'A clean arrowman is a lazy arrowman" that I got some respect from some scout leaders. So again I think the decision reflects the litigiousness of our society, as well as society's attept to keep folks children as long as possible, and it's refusal to acknowledge the KSAs of our young adults. 3) In reference to Wilderness Survival overnites at summer camp, unfortunately I think this is what killed patrol camping without adults. Now I do know that some camps do have two adults, either staff or a staffer and a volunteer leader, go out and supervise One camp asked for volunteers, and being the WS nut that I am, I volunteered. Learned some cool tricks from that counselor like not only shaking down, but also just waiting until all contraband is collected; having "supplies" strewn out like a real accident or crash, mock signaling supplies, and emerging scenarios incorporating FA as well (that was very cool IMHO). 4) In reference to Ordeals, the way I have seen it work is that the candidates are mixed groups of Scouts and a few adults, under an elangomat and an elangomat adviser. As long as there is an adult candidate, or the elangomat is 18-20, YP is covered. Again I see this as a sad day for scouting.

Actually that is old news if you read GBB's "Two Lives of a Hero," or may one of the other BP Bios. Gotta remember that with the conversion of the German Boy Scout and Girl Scout or Guide organizations into the Hitler Youth in the mid 1930s, BP wrote numerous letters to Hitler and other German officials in an attempt to reinstate Scouting and it back into the nascent WOSM. As for him stating that Mein Kampf is a "A wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organization etc. that is one of the scary things about the book. mixed into the hatred and vitriol ARE some good ideas. I believe it was Goebbals who said something like mixing some truth with your belief is a way to get people to support you, or something like that. Grant you it has been a very long time since I attempted to read the book. But I remember the reason why I had to stop reading was b/c Hitler was very clever in writing and speaking. He would start out with an obvious truth, then twist and turn and rationalize his hatred until you agreed with him. Also please remember that 1) BP was a retired intelligence officer, and you really never retire from that profession I'm told, so I bet he did report to the authorities his interactions and 2) according to the captured OPERATIONS SEA LION plans, the the operation for the invasion and conquest of Great Britain, BP was one of the folks int he catagory of the royal family, Churchil, and other high government and military leaders who was to be executed upon capture. So I don't think BP was a NAZI.

MMMMMMMM po boy's. Wish my boss would have brought back a po boy from MOTHERS in New Orleans. C'est la vie.

Seattle, I'd have problems with it, but even more with a troop that isn't camping. When I saw the new JTE requirements state a minimum of 4 campouts a year, I was shocked. "ScOUTING is OUTING." as GBB once said I'd see a problem with a troop that isn't a 'hiking and camping" troop.

Beav, Hasn't there been folks who did not attend law school and pass the bar? Thought I read a book and saw a movie about one such guy?