Eagle92

I'll be honest, I am very envious of units that are meeting J2E requirements. When I first read the BS ones and see how my troop wouod compare, we would have aced Gold. Only requirements that would have concerned me are teh Webelos to Scout transition, as we did not have a feeder pack for a long time and usually got "retreads" recruiting by word of mouth. heck I was a retread, transferring form another troop. Also teh NYLT requirement would have b/c the council went 6 years without a BA22/JLTC course, so no one would have attended. But looking at my pack, we have a ways to go. In ref to CSDC, does your council have camperships? My council does have 1 campership fund that anyone can use. The other two are limited to eagle Scouts Only and Boy Scouts Only.

I'll be honest, I want a fully uniformed election and camp promo team as the OA is Scouting's honor society, and they are expected to set the example, and that does include wearing a complete uniform. I also understand financial situations, and I'll address that in a minute. I do like how the first adult, the current SM, handled it. He tried to solve the problem by lending/giving a pair a pants to the folks if they could be found. That's trying to be part of the solution IMHO. I do agree the 2nd adult, the former SM, went way overboard. Good response by the adult accompanying the team. Now the financial issues I said I'll address. I was one of those poor Scouts who had a choice: a complete uniform or go camping. OBVIOUSLY that's a no brainer: GO CAMPING. But there are some ways to help solve the problem. One way is to get a uniform exchange going on the unit and/or district level. My troop did that, and that was how I finally got official pants. For 3 years I did wear green field shorts, green pants, and Vietnam era bdu pants when camping. But once I was able to get a pair of official pants, I rarely wore them again. Thrift stores are another way to get uniforms. Heck I never had a new uniform until I worked for supply and was issued one. Everything i had came from uniform exchange or thrift stores. Ebay and Craigslist are other routes to get uniforms. Good luck.

2cub, Beleive it or not creating a list is one of the goals of the CS outdoor committee I'm on. I know one suggestion is to include the "Cub Friendly" camps in the lodge's Where to Go Camping book.

'Rat77, I still use my M-14 ammo pouch as a survival kit. Or would that be a "vintage" SWS-21 ammo pouch now?

Base, I can sympathize from some of the things you describe in your council. But as Moose said, not every council is like that. I personally like the J2E program better than the old Honor Unit and Quality unit programs. It gives you a set of goals that are based upon successful units, and is program oriented. I can tell you that I know of units that are struggling b/c they are not following these good practices. And to be honest, a good unit will have not problem meeting these goals.

Just out of curiosity, who is suppose to inspect these campsites for approval? can someone with BALOO visit, verify, and submit? Someone with NCS certification? Beleive it or not, this topic didn't come up when I went through BALOO, and when I taught it for the first time, I stated this is what you look for, but the council doesn't have a list yet.

For got to add this to last post. "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt once wrote "OUTING is three-fourths of SCOUTING" (3rd. Ed. SMHB, p 601). Notice he didn't write "Boy Scouting," "Sea Scouting," or "Explorer Scouting" as Venturing was called back then, but "SCOUTING." Last Time I checked Cub Scouts were part of the Scouting movement, and... CUBS WANT TO CAMP! Also National needs to edit the outdoor quote on p. 602 of the current BSHB since it is incorrect. Green Bar Bill wrote "OUTING is three-fourths of SCOUTING," (caps in original) not "Scouting is two-thirds outing." Just do the math to figure that 6/8 = 3/4.

Oak, Your council sounds like mine, there is no approved list of camps for Cubs. heck didn't find out until this year that in order to have district/council CS campouts, you have to have a certification to do it. As I mentioned, CS have been neglected for some time in the council. Luckily we got some good leadership trying to change that, but it is an uphill battle. People still think that CS don't need to camp, and that CS and parent's don't know how to camp as they expect to drive to their campsite, bring everything, etc. What they don't realize is that A) if you don't let folks camp, they never learn B) Instead of complaining about it, help them out, and C) Set the example. Kinda hard to complain about CS parents driving their cars to their campsites, when you have folks doing that at Ordeals. OA may get dragged into working with CS. The VC for Camp Promos sees the need for working with Cubs, and it trying to get more involvement in that process. I'm looking forward to helping him out.

Base, One challenge you may have is that packs need to have participation in either CSDC or resident camp for teh Journey to Excellence program. 6. Cub Scouts attend an in-council/out-of-council Cub Scout day camp and/or Cub Scout resident camp in 2011. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/mission/JTE_Pack_Requirements.pdf Now if I remember correctly, your district doesn't do them, so maybe the new J2E requirements will force the issue. 8. Have an increase in total Cub Scouts attending any in-council/out-of-council day camp and/or resident camp ( emphasis mine) and Boy Scouts attending any in-council/out-of-council, long-term summer camp, high-adventure experience, jamboree, or serving on camp staff, OR have at least 17% of registered Cub Scouts as of 6/30/2011, attending any in-council/out-of-council day camp and/or resident camp ( again emph. mine) and have at least 45% of Boy Scouts attending any in-council/out-of-council long-term summer camp, high-adventure experience, jamboree, or serving on camp staff. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/mission/JTE_District_Requirements.pdf(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Unfortunately some council are not "pro Cub camping" and have not maintained lists of approved campsites. Please don't get me started on that one as I am part of the solution on this one.

I love surplus gear. It's cheap, dependable, and lasts.

Seattle, With no disrespect, this is the funniest thing I've heard today And in general I don't carry a killing weapon myself Your hands and feet can be used to kill someone. Your swiss army knife can be used to kill someone The pencils and pens you use can be used to kill someone. Your cell phone can be used to kill someone. And I can go on and on. It's not a matter of the tool you have, but rather the individual's intent. For example with one job I had a boxcutter or pocket knife on me most of the time as I dealt with receiving merchandise. That was my intent: opening packages. But on 9-11-01, 19 individual had the intent of using boxcutters to take over jets and run them into the WTC and the Pentagon. Tools do not kill people, people kill people.

I agree with Sailing, use the right tool for the right job. If a sheath knife is the knife for the job, then train the scouts to use it. If it calls for a SAK or a leatherman, teach them to use it. As for weaponization of tools, ANYTHING can be used as a weapon. A pencil or a tent peg can be used as a weapon. As someone else mentioned, box cutters have been used as a weapon. This entire conversation reminds me of a scene in CROCODILE DUNDEE Teenage Mugger: [Dundee and Sue are approached by a black youth stepping out from the shadows, followed by some others] You got a light, buddy? Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: Yeah, sure kid. [reaches for lighter] Teenage Mugger: [flicks open switchblade] And your wallet! Sue Charlton: [guardedly] Mick, give him your wallet. Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [amused] What for? Sue Charlton: [cautiously] He's got a knife. Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [chuckles] That's not a knife. [he pulls out a large bowie knife] Now THAT's a knife.

But not for long. national intends to replace the red jecket with the new green wool one. BTW anyone know where I can get replacement buttons at for the red jac shirt?

But watch out for the shipping cost. thatcan sometimes cost moe than what you want to buy since it's coming from France.

It's doable, hard but doable. Say your Son becomes a Scout at age 10 years 3 months (scout with a Sept birthday and in 5th grade could join in Dec at that age) an your troop does 3 day/2 night campouts every month except December ( Christmas time) and July ( summer camp) that's 8 campouts before Sept, for a total of 24 days and 16 nights of camping. Then add a full week of summer camp (Sun- Sat) that's an additional 7 days/6 nites, for a total of 31 days and 21 nites of camping before turning 11. Even with a Scout joining at age 10 years, in 6 months if he does five 3day/2 nite campouts and summer camp will get an 11yo a total of 25 days/17 nites of camping. To correct the quote in the current BSHB (it states that "Outing is 2/3rds of Scouting) with the original GBB one... ..."OUTING is 3/4ths of ScOUTING." PS maybe BP is correct in that Mazzuca is trying to takwe the outing out of scouting, by lowering OUTING 9% in Scouting

Nope Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts wear the green and tan still. But if you have some in the centennial uniforms with the red numbers, or loops for that matter, it is still authorized. Per the pdfs that came out in May 2009 and were the only source of info on the new uniforms until April 2010 when the the IG came out, folks are allowed to mix and match uniform items ( that covers the Boy Scout and Varsity Scout side of things) and Webelos wearing the Boy Scout uniform, and their leaders, were suppose to wear the green and tan numbers and trained strip if applicable. So if you have any CS leaders and Webelos wearing the green and tans, they are OK too. They are wearing a "vintage 2009-2010 Uniform"

YPT for summer camp staff is covered in NCS and the info is given in the CD book.

Yep. I wouldn't use of of his directions today to make regalia. i'd go to NocBay.com and look under Learning Circle, or go to crazy crow trading post.

Actually PM me specifics if you want to. I am always looking for ideas. Clem I know as someone who A) went thru IOLS (ok it was the old SMF course, I'm old) and B) worked at CSDCs and other large CS events (try 12K+, so large we had to have the 4th MarDiv send in staff reinforcements ) I was kinda bored with BALOO. Good thing was that I met other leaders in the pack I was about to join. But it was a classroom BALOO with no outside work whatsoever, which defeats the purpose IMHO. Folks need to see what you are talking about. Good luck and please tell me, either here or via PM what it is like.

Longer than that. The "castrated" requirements were in effect in 1985 when I joined a troop.

The challenge is if you double your size, why are the scouts leaving? Usually active troops, doing activities that the Scouts select will retain and grow. I know my troop for 5 of my 6 years with them did not have a feeder pack. We essentially recruited by word of mouth. We would get transfers from other troops, a few who dropped out of Scouting and decided to join their friends (not many of those but one or 2), and of course by using DCs and inviting packs to our activities. But retention seems to be the bigger problem.

As a former HS teacher, I didn't last long I admit, here are my thoughts. 1) Parental Involvement and Support. Not only must parents be involved, they must also support the teacher. I do not know how many times parents said it was not their child's fault they are failing. 2) Discipline and Punishment. Not to sound like an old curmudgeon, but kids need to learn that there are repercussions if they do not meet stated goals and objectives, whether those goals are behavioral or learning objectives. I saw this no only on the HS level, but also the college level: kids expected A's just for showing up; they didn't care about the work they needed to do. You don't do the work, you will fail. Turn in the paper late, you will lose points. You cut up in class, I am kicking you out. 3) Divide students into ability groups. You can have a large groups of high achievers who know what they are doing and motivated. You can have an average class size for the average learners. And have smaller class sizes for those learners who need help. 4) Challenge the students to learn. Give them high expectations and they will meet them. Look at the various teachers and principles that books and movies have been made about.

As pointed out, the minimum of 5 youth has been around a long time. Scout Executives can give out waivers for very few reasons, and only three come to mind at the moment. One reason is a new unit, and it is expected that the unit will grow to 5 or more youth within 1-2 years. A second reason is a unit that is struggling to stay alive, and again they expect growth within a year or two. The third reason is LDS units as the LDS Church mandates scout participation. I would try to develop relationships with all the packs in your area, and recruit from them. If your CO is a church, try recruiting youth and leaders from the church. Only other options that come to mind are merging with another unit, esp if their is another that is struggling as you can pool your resources, or Lone Scouts.

OtN gave the ideas I'd recommend. use them and it helps. Does it get rambunctious, of course it's 7 yo wolves, but they help. A Den Chief also helps a lot. Kids look up to him and model his behavior. saddest day for me this year was when I lost my DC to the Webelos. BUT he is needed there more than with the Webelos.