Eagle92

Never heard of such a thing until I got on this site.

Ditto what others said, adults 21+ are NOMINATED by the unit, then selected by the lodge. HOWEVER Adult leaders 18-20 are considered youth in the OA and are elected, and must have been First Class or higher. Who does the the nominating vary as I've seen it where the CC chooses, and in another place the COR. In one lodge I did elections in, there was a committee that selected the adults to be inducted from all the nominations, and then in another lodge the Chapter Adviser selected whether the nominee was in or not. I was the CA, and was not informed of this, and wrote very positive letter of recommendation for one nominee whose form was rushed through by the unit. CC just filled out the basic info, sighned it and turned it in, not describing how the nominee could be of benefit. So I wrote the letter endorinsg it and telling about my expereinces with the nominee. Got an email about him a few days later telling me they assume I approve , and that I just needed to sign the form approving. Now there is a committee that selects adults.

JB, Just remember, 13 and finished 8th grade or 14 now Don't know if it will speed up the wait or not.

What I consider Scouting events for this MB. Troop Camp Outs Patrol Camp Outs done prior to the ban in G2SS Pack Camp Outs IF, stressing IF he's a den chief and is working the event. Campouts as a Cub Scout do not count. OA events, i.e. Ordeals, Fellowships, and Conclaves IF, again stressing IF, they are not held at a college and the scout is sleeping in the dorms by nie and flirting with the cheerleaders during the day Jambo HA bases,both national HA bases like Philmont, Florida Sea Base, and N. Tier, as well as local HA bases like PAMLICO SEA BASE (www.pamlicoseabase.org, sorry I just have to plug it) Venturing camp outs Depending upon the Sea Scout activity I would as well. If they are sleeping on the beach, under the stars or in a tent, yes. Sleeping on the deck of their boat, nope To many creature comforts of home on a boat.

Back in the day, my council awarded every person who completed BA22, and later JLTC, a surplus Smokey Bear. We had to come up with the boot lace for a chin strap. Instead of the leather hat bands, the BA22 crowd left it as is, but the JLTC crowd wore their patrol ribbon around it. I still got pics of me with my white with blue polka dotted ribbon around my hat. But you can get the chin strap and hat band separately from supply.

I'm rather conservative b/c in the area of parents signing off b/c I have seen it abused. It has happened in my pack previously. I know my son got a lot of awards at the last pack meeting as he finally got his Wolf and could get his electives. There were a few eyebrows raised, and I joked saying " This is what happens when you go to day camp," and that got a few chuckles. When the next Cub got his stuff, identical to what my son got, I said, "You can tell he went to day camp too." and more laughter. When the third Wolf got his stuff, a third, I stated " You get Wolf next month, and you'll get get your electives since you also went to day camp." That eased the situation. Again I have seen it abused. But if a relative is the only legitimate MBC, then what choice do you have? We have one Nuclear Science MBC in our district, and of course his son went to him, as did others. But if someone else is available i'd use them.

Angela, WELCOME TO THE FORUMS. In reference o cost of CSDCs, prices vary from as low as $55 from 9 hour days/5 days to $320 for same time span. You get what you pay for, and the more expensive camps usually have paid staff. My camp is $55 and no one gets paid. We also have challenges recruiting staff. We barely, and I do mean barely, had enough staff to run the camp last year.

I've seen some things, and found out some things too. I discovered after the fact that a SM told his troop how to vote so that everyone eligible could get it. This was using the old election process, and he figured out that if you had an odd number of candidates, and an even number of scouts voting, it could be possible to get everyone in. It happened, and I found out at the Ordeal when he talked about what he did. Not happy about it but it was too late. And this was when I was a youth member of the OA Same SM tried to remove an elected candidate that he approved prior to the election. He didn't think the scout was worthy, didn't think the troop would elect him in to begin with, and wanted the team to remove his name once he did get elected. When they refused, he wanted me to do it as chapter adviser. When I refused and stated that he had his chance prior to the election, he cursed me out. I've had it where the troop decided to do their own elections and then turn in the papwork. SM should have known better b/c he was a prior chapter adviser. We rejected the paperwork, and had the team redo the election, with different results. I also had an SM submit names to me. No dice, we sent the election team to do it. Recently we had a unit do their own election and submit the PW directly to the lodge without anyone knowing about it until either the Call Out or the Ordeal, I don't remember which. They went through, but the unit leaders have been informed, and an eye is being kept on the unit for the near future. (This message has been edited by eagle92)

What's a Blue Card? Seriously I had never seen a blue card until I helped the scout shop move. My troop didn't use them. And Council didn't require them for EBORs. Also couldn't that be seen as adding to the requirements, and grounds for an appeal?

That's for Troops, Ships, Teams, and Crews. Packs need the above plus: 1 Tiger DL if there are any Tigers 1 DL if there are any Wolves and Bears and 1 WDL if there are any Webelos.

At the national parade last year, I saw a pack marching in "vintage" CS uniforms. I say "vintage" because they were actually reporductions. They went so far as to get the SE's permission to get a company to make the old yellow and blue numbers, and old wolf, bear, lion, and WeBeLos badges. Looked sharp too I might add. I know that Ebay has been my friend for finding my wife her 1950s Den Mother Uniform dress and insignia. I admit it's a little short on her, and she plans to wear leggings with it.

WOW. If that is true, then I see a real, serious problem. Yes there are some similarities, but there are major, stressing MAJOR, differences between IOLS/OWL and BALOO. Combining OWL and IOLS does make sense, and councils are doing it. But BALOO?!?!?!?!?! Unless you want the Cubs to do more camping in dens like Boy Scout patrols than family camping, this will be a mess. If it's a paradigm shift to get Cub dens camping liek boy scouts, it will be interesting getting buy in.

there was a time in scouting when full uniforms were the norm, and the only guidance most scouts and parents had was the scout handbook...very basic stuff. I agree it was basic, and I never saw an IG until I helped the scout shop move to a new location. BUT I can tell you that even with the information still on the inside back covers, people STILL do not look at the information.

I know that in my neck of the woods, when I talked to the local GS pros about doing joint round ups in the school, they point blank said "NO!" And I reasoned, cajoled, and even begged, yep you heard me BEGGED, them to do joint round ups because the girls wanted the same opportunities as the boys. Now that we have American Heritage Girls in my neck of the woods, they may be doing joint round ups.

I admit I have seen some changes in the OA since I first took the Obligation, some I like, soe I don't. I think part of the decline is that we DID lower standards in the early to mid 1990s when we changed the voting procedure. I also think that yes some lodges became too focuses on self congratulating and money raising. Now I don't mind some, stress SOME self congratualing, in the form of signs stating "Built by XYZ Lodge, # 123, Order of the Arrow," the ceremonies, etc. I've seen what happens when an organization busts butt doign things, and doesn't let out acknowlesdgements. My chapter ran into that problem. In the past 10 years, my chapter raised over $10K for camp improvements, camperships, etc, but no one outside the chapter knew about it. We did have folks who did not know what we do and how we do it because we were "invisible." As for what the OA does and what woudl happen if the OA dissolved? I cannot say what would happen in your council as each lodge is different,a nd focuses on different areas. Are there rooms for improvement in every lodge, you bet, but here are some of the things that would suffer in my council. 1) More money would need to be invested in maintaining the council camps, building buildings at camps, etc. Without my lodge there are structures at the camps that probably would not be built or maintained. One council camp would problably fall apart if not for the OA as some on the council level would like to sell it, and the camp is in the usable shape it is in today only b/c of the OA keeping it up when it was neglected by council. 2)The amount of money raised for campership would dwindle. We raise more money for camperships than anything else. 3) Provide staff for Summer camp. Most, not all, but most of the summer camp staff are Arrowmen who love camping. In my old council, we could have done a better job on helping to expand the camp's faciltiies. But we excelled in camp promotions and getting people to attend summer camp, as well as providing staff members to various district and council events. A huge number of Arrowmen, I'd say almost the entire lodge, were invovled in some way shape or form in providing service for our 12K+ encampments, whether they were working directly at OA run events, or at district run events and exhibits.

(joking on) This is the Uniform Police. Take off that temporary patch on the left pocklet and put it on the right pockiet per IG page....(joking off) In all seriousness, I do use the IG and it's descriptions, and supply numbers. Working for supply, if I couldn't find the item number, I'd use the IG to find it. If a leader needed something, and I could translate teh description from Unit Leaderese to Suppliese, then I'd go to the IG to find the item, and order it, sell it , etc. Today I sometimes cannot find items on SCOUTSTUFF.ORG. But using the IG, I can find the item, it's supply number, and order the stuff. Also I use it to describe the IG what I'm talking about to new leaders. So there is a use for the IG and I would not get rid of it.

John, Then can Cubs and their leaders get a "Cub Scouts BSA" strip to wear on their uniforms?

Bart, That is considered "homemade." Trust me someone from my lodge has been in contact with national about this. He's an engineer, has his own shop and tools, and still cannot make them for us. DL posted the section before I posted.

I agree with Lisa. Part of teh MB program is so that they get use to working with adults, folks, folks they don't know much about other than they are an approved MBC by the council, and the SM approved the use of the family member as an MBC. While there is no, repeat NO, national policy preventing family members serving as MBCs, I am hesitant to recommend the practice. Yes I have seen it abused. Heck I feel uncomfortable signing my son off on his religious award in the DL spot, asking my ADL to sign it.

Calico, While Explorer posts and Sea Scout ships did have elections at one time, it was discontinued by 1993 when I got really invovled in the OA. I think Ships and Posts lost the ability to hold elections sometime in the late 1970s, early 1980s. Where's EMB when we need him, as he's da expert on this matter.

Once upon a time, William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt wrote "Outing is three-fourths of Scouting" * Notice he did not say "Boy Scouting," "Sea Scouting," "Senior Scouting" as Exploring/Venturing was called when he first wrote it, or "Cub Scouting." He wrote "SCOUTING" (caps for emphasis). So who ever "rebranded" the OA in 1996 or thereabouts, clearly was messed up. We should not be called "Scouting National Honor Society" b/c members of only 2 of Scouting's 5 programs, Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts and their leaders, can be inducted into the OA. Sea Scouts, Cub Scouts, and Venturers clearly cannot be inducted, although the ties of brotherhood are lasting, and anyone who has underwent the Ordeal can be a member irregardless of which program they are registered in. *p. 206 of the current BSHB is a misquote. Outing is not 2/3ds of scouting. 6/8 = 3/4, just do the math.

I've been called a Uniform Policeman, you should have read the thread I started on MyScouting.org's forums for a good laugh, and I've been called out for not wearing any scout uniform items on except the belt. I've worn an incomplete uniform, using imitation pants or shorts, 'cause I couldn't afford new ones or find used ones that fit. And of course I now have multiple uniforms. Here are my thoughts. There is a time and a place for the uniform. Meetings and ceremonies, heck yeah you better be in uniform. In the field camping, or better still, at an OA Ordeal where you aresoaking wet in the rain and covered in the mud from doing "cheerful service" creating a firebreak/trail, you'd be insane to wear your uniform. The goal of every scout should be to own his own uniform. If he needs to save up for it, buy it secondhand, etc, then fine let him. Heck I encourage. I made my oldest put some skin in the game by making him put up some of the money for his uniform (ok I admit I took the money in put it into the Philmont/Summit/WSJ 2019 jar), and I didn't get my official pants until I was 14, 3 years into the program. But instead of jeans, I'd go with at least green pants instead of jeans. And there are ways to get used pants: ebay, craigslist, thriftstores, etc.

The "smudge pots" I'm use to are #10 cans with a roll of TP and kerosene in them. Now verboten by the BSA. which makes OA Ordeals interesting now. I actually found a place that sells them for $35/pop. I'm thinking the chapter may be buying some in the near future.

'77, I don't know if it was used the past two years, but my scout camp does have the crosscut saws and I used one at an Ordeal 2 years ago. Had't used one in about 21 years and it was a pain to get started. But once we got our grove, it was a piece of cake cutting the rail road ties. We also had that as an event at camporee last year. The OA chapter wanted that as an event and got it. Everyone loved it, except the OA since they couldn't play. Sometimes being the judge is not fun

Joebob, Depends on the pro. I have seen some pros who gave 110%. Not only doing what they were suppose to be doing, but going the extra mile trying to be a mentor to new units when no UCs existed. I've seen DEs give away their own personal camping gear to new units that needed it, b/c he would not be using it again. I've seen pros who when there was a problem, fix it. I've seen DE's who gave back at camp, doing some rather dirty and irksome tasks sot hat camp will be successful. I have seen pros work with their district committees so well, that the district committee keeps the district running, not growing but running, when that pro leaves and there is a vacancy for several months. But I have also seen the other side. Pros that this is just a job. Pros that focus on just the numbers so much, that they forget that number is a youth wanting to be a member of the greatest youth movement in the world; a unit that will make an impact in the community, a donation that will keep the cost of the program affordable so that more folks can participate in it; and a volunteer trying to make an inpact in someone's life. If you ever visit with other Scout associations, you will find that we are the envy of the world b/c we do have a professional cadre to support us. Whereas in other countries it run mostly by volunteers. I know in the UK, it took one leader 2 months to get a Queen's Scout Badge she promised me b/c she could not catch up with the volunteer who dealt with the ranks. All I would need to do is go to my local scout shop at home, tell the manager "Hi ________, I need replacement Eagle badge, here's the Advancement report." and I would get it in about 5 minutes (OK more like 15-30 minutes since I would probably chat up a storm). If you have a good DE, they are worth their weight in platinum. If you don't, well....