Eagle92

As long as the NFL doesn't go after the BSA for copyright infringement, I'd be happy. Oh wait, the BSA was founded before the New Orleans Saints, NEVER MIND oh and a WHO DAT!

How about an episode of Dirty Jobs with 8 Scouts Why not make it more interesting; Dirty Jobs with 8 Arrowman. I bet the National Chief, National VC, 4 Regional Chiefs, and 2 adult OA committee members, or whatever their position is now called, Would be willing to do it. As my old lodge would say, "A clean Arrowman is a lazy Arrowman." But I think Eagle Scout and Arrowman Mike Rowe said it best, " A Scout is clean, but not afraid to get dirty."

Skipper, Any mariner's compass will do. Try Seascout.org for images of nautical compasses.

Some units still have the adults in ties. I know of one unit that has a stash of ties for their leaders to wear at formal events with the field uniform. I got some looks when I showed up at their ECOH with a necker on instead of a tie, with a few folks thinking I was still a youth (don't I wish ).

I am sorry to hear that your son was beat up by another scout, there is NO, repeat NO place in Scouting for that type of behavior. But I strongly object to your negative attitude towards Scouting as I was a Scout from a single parent home. Here are my thoughts on the situation. 1) You need to calm down, sit down with the leaders and your son, and find out exactly what has happened. If the group cannot find out what happened, the older scout may get away with it, and victimize another scout if that was the case. I do not want that to happen. Or it could be that the older scout was assaulted by the younger scout, and defended himself. I know that happened at one summer camp I worked at. Correction the younger scout attacked a brand new ASM, he had just turned 18 about a week or two before camp, in front of the entire troop. I am not saying that happened either, but without a sitdown to get the facts, NO ONE WILL KNOW WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED. (caps for emphasis). 2)I resent the attack on all Scouting leaders. Yes there may be a few who are more into Scouting for themselves than the youth, but the large majority I know are in it for the youth. Some because their kids are in it and they want a great program for their kids and their friends. Some like me have been trying to give back to the youth in Scouting what Scouting gave to us back in the day. Besides my mother and my church, 3 things have made a major impact on my life, and Scouting is one of them. 3) I've served in a variety of positions; assistant scoutmaster, associate adviser, sea scout leader, district committee member, district executive, and currently as a Cub Scout leader, and I will tell you for most volunteers the kids are not numbers, but actual youth they are trying to make a difference in the lives of. I know I lost a few Cubs since May of last year. Some of it was the dissorganization of the pack I was in (and we are working on that), some of it was lack of exciting meetings ( mea culpa), some of it was the scouts interest went towards sports, and in one case the pack didn't camp enough for him and his family(I'm hoping to get this one back in in 4th grade at the eariest, 11y.o. at the latest ) despite 3 overniters in a 7 week period. And every regret losing every single one of those Cubs, and have tried to get every single one re-involved in Scouting, whether back with my pack or in another. 4) Women can serve as leaders in Troops, and that includes camping. One of the best SMs I ever knew was female, and she could backpack with the best of them until her health started failing. The unit's COR ultimately approves/disapproves who can become a leader, but there si nothing stopping form filling out an application. 5) As a kid with an abusive father who walked out on him (which was the best thing he ever did in all honesty) the older scouts and leaders were my positive male role models, and are folks I try to imitate both in scouting, and in my life. Without them as role models, I do not know how I would have turned out. 6) I also know that without the older scouts and leaders above, I would not have grown up. I do have an overprotective mother ( even to this day ) and there were great opportunities I would have missed out on if they would not have talked my mother into me going, telling her exactly what I am capable of when i am on my own. I would not have gone through advance leadership training, some of which I use to this day. I would not have gone on a 64 mile canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness. I would not have joined Sea Scouts, and gone cruising in the Gulf of Mexico. As an adult I would not know how to prepare for a trip to Europe to work on a camp staff. making friends form scouts all over. Again do sit down with your son and leaders and get to the heart of the matter. If the matter doesn't get resolved TO YOUR SON'S SATIFACTION ( stressing that, not shouting), have him look at other troops in the area. Every unit is different. I should know, I was in 2 troops as a youth, and have serves as a leader in 6 different units in 4 different councils. Everyone of them was different.

WE NEED ADULT ARROWMAN AT THE UNIT LEVEL FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Caps is for emphasis, ok maybe a little shouting ) SR gave a VERY big role adults play: Transporters. Trust me it ain't fun squeezing a 4 man ceremony team and regalia in a Geo Metro. Been there, done that, and lost the t-shirt in one of my moves. Adults also serve as an example to the youth. Adults should, stress SHOULD, answer parents questions and ease any concerns and dispel any garbage they read or heard about the OA (trust me this can be a very biggie). Adults can provide specialized skills that may be needed to help with a project at camp. Best example is electricians who updated the wiring in several building. Or the construction folks who built several shelters at camp. Adults can provide advice on how to get things done, have contacts to do activities, etc. best example is the retired USAF col. Who got us a tour of a lcoal base when the PR folks wouldn't do it for us.

Oak, That a big negative, West donations go into the council's endowment fund in which the principle isn't touched, and only the interest is used if needed. They also have the Heritage Society and Founders Circle, I believe $5K and $10K endowment donations. I know that councils use to have to get x number of West Awards per year. One council received a very large estate gift to the endowment, and every single Eagle Scout, SE, DFS and office staff member received the West Award that year. DEs were out of luck though.

A drybag is a bag designed to keep item in it dry. You can buy them, or use the "el cheapo mucho approach" of a garbage bag, twisted shut and goosenecked. Trust me works just as well as a dry bag. Back when I did my 50 miler with my Sea Scout ship, I told folks to always waterproof their gear when going on water, and told them this method. When it came time to unload the boats, the guys were told to be pack mules. Since everyone was instructed to waterproof their gear, those of us on that duty just started putting packs on or carrying gear, some of which was in the water, thinking everythign was protected. WWWWEEEEEELLLLL some folks didn't pay heed of our advice, complained that their gear got wet, and said we wouldn't get our gear wet. Shoulda saw the look on their faces when we put on our packs in the water and started out to shore. Packs got wet, but nylon dries real fast. Clothes and other gear were perfectly dry in their garbage bags. What really concerns me is this comment: I just get to pay for it ... Why is the scout not earning his keep? Why is the scout not earning an allowance, doing unit fundraisers, etc to pay his own way?

While I now personally own 4, I'd learned my lesson about giving gear away, I only use one rated to 15 degrees. , I regulate the zipper and also sleep outside of it as needed. The other three I lend to my kids.

Neckers can tell a variety of things, and which one to wear depends upon what you want to convey. A necker can tell you what unit you are with (usually Boy Scout troops,) what district you belong to, or even council. They can tell you what events you have been to, i.e. jamborees, camporees, scout shows, etc They can tell you what training you have, i.e. WB, BA22, or in one case teh old SM Fundamentals course. They can also tell you where you have been, i.e. camp neckers. As a leader you have a wide range of choices. If you can still find one, I'd recommend the anniversary one. it's the correct size, and looks nice.

Yep I recommend a minimum of 4: one to do first aid and 2 to be runners in case of an accident. Thankfully a hike can be considered a patrol activity and doesn't need adults. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent .... pgs 1-2. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf EDITED: bold in above is my emphasis.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Depends on what neckers you have. Last nite I wore my Finnish National one that I traded. In the past I've worn my OA lodge's necker, my previous lodge's Honor Neckerchief, my 100th anniversary, Eagle Scout Necker, British National I have, 1995 WSJ, etc etc. So if you earned something, and there is a necker for it, wear it. If you traded for it or was gifted a necker, wear it. If you went to an event or a camp and there was a necker for it, wear it. There are only two neckers I would give almost anything for: a Kingsdown International Campsite Service Crew necker and Youlbury International Campsite Service Team necker. They didn't have any in stock when I was over there.

Well when Boy Scouts and their leaders wore the red ones, it was easy to distinguish the Webelos and Cub Scout leaders from Boy Scouts and their leaders. Now with the switch to green, from a distance you cannot tell who's who.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the web, but my understanding is that if someone gives a donation to an endowment fund, that money can only be used to put in the endowment fund as placing it in the operating budge would be fraud. Again I'm not a lawyer, but when I was tasked with getting 4 West Awards as a DE, I was told specifically not to ask any FOS donors who reduce their FOS gift to give out a West Award.

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS! You can PM me as well as I have a bunch ranging from 1 man ceremonies to four man ceremonies. Ideally you want four, but sometimes you use what you have.

The image problem with the BSA that others have noted goes back a long ways. It's mentioned in FOLLOW ME BOYS with Whitey's reluctance to join the troop. The interesting thing is that one you give the youth a taste of the outdoors and independence, most get hooked.

1 hour, Yep, but it is not uncomfortable. Although the "Elvis" collars on the CUs do make it a pain to tuck it under. I have given serious thought to removing the collar.

Alas, some nameless official at national, who hopefully went the way of the CSE at that time, probably never read the memo.

SR, Trust me I understand where you are coming from. When I was CA we did phone trees, emails, and an automatical message reminder, etc. and people still didn't attend. But I was in one chapter that didn't do anything to keep their members informed, and members did not know who chapter officers were. OA woudl show up at district camporee, do an election, call you out, and that was it. No welcoming into the OA, no calls about the Ordeal, not chapter campsites, etc. In a nutshell no communication. Also one possibilty why the DE isn't attending OA events is that he was told he "don't have time to play Indian." Yep My DFS told me not to attend ANY OA events and used those exact words.

Why woudl a scout not take a spare set of clothes on a trip that involves water? That's common sense and being prepared.

Alas, Knee socks and garters, aka Lovet hose, are gone, and twice now national has doen away with knee socks, only to bring them back. Inthe 1990s they did away with the kneesocks with red tops, only to bring them back about 2 years later, and the Centennial Uniform also did away with knee socks, only to bring them back this year sans red top. Don't need the garetrs anymore b/c they have elastic in them. Now PM me is you want an old pair of kneesocks with the red tops; in-laws bought me a dozen when they were getting rid of them for Christmas.

Thought this might interest a few folks. Webcam in a nest with 3 eaglets. http://www.wvec.com/marketplace/microsite-content/eagle-cam.html

Forgot to add, get involved as it is a blast and do those events you can.

SP, I think that may be part of the problem. IMHO the election team does need to talk about some of the responsibilities and obligations as an Arrowman at the election process. I know that when I did elections, and trained teams, that was something I emphasised, and one SM did call me on that saying I was discouraging potential members. Of the 16 Scouts who were eligible and at first wanted to be in the OA, 9 or 10 said they didn't want anythign to do with the OA ocne they found out more about what we did. Out of the the 6 who remained onthe ballot, I think 4 got elected, and 2 went through the Ordeal and were never heard from again, despite repeated phonecalls and emails. 1 backed out at the Pre-Ordeal ceremony, and one we never saw after the Call Out Ceremony. Yes an Arrowman's primary responsibility is to his unit as they are the ones who elected him, they need him. But Arrowman do need to make an effort to be involved. I am not sayin an Arrowman needs to attend every OA event, but do attend what you can. Also it is a two-way street, not only should the Arrowman make attempts to keep in contact with the lodge/chapter, but the lodge/chapter need to keep in contact witht he Arrowman. An Arrowman may want to be invovled, but if no one tells him what is going on, how can he know?

SP, It would depend upon the OA dancers and how they went about it. I know of one group of OA dancers who went so far out there, that the local nation asked the lodge to stop them, and when the team members refused, the lodge disbanded them. Luckily the lodge had a very good relationship, albeit somewhat damaged due to the yahoos, and when we we restarted the dance team a few years later, one of their elders came out to help us, and we were invited to their powwow a few months later. I and others have danced at several Native American powwows with no problems. Now I always ask permission for us to dance the first time I attend an annual powwow, or if we haven't attended in a while, and we are on our best behavior, following all protocols. But again I do know of some OA dancers who do not dothings properly, and it gives all of us a bad name.