Eagle92

SP, Can undertand your feelings, and that is your choice, although I wish you would get involved, get to know the OA in your area, and be a resource to your unit, and the parents in it. One big challenge as I see it is that folks do view the Ordeal as some type of big hoopla like a COH, graduation, etc, and do things that are not really appropriate, despite being told otherwise. Folks nowadays do not think rules apply to them, hence the incident described by another poster. If done properly, the Ordeal Ceremony is NOT a graduation, but the completion of a day long process that is to allow the individual to reflect and test themselves. The Ceremony explains a good bit about what is done, as well as what is expected. To be honest it really should a calm, dignified moment. I've had something very similar occur, and the incident the other poster described reminded me of something else that happened. My chapter also had a candidate whose parents came and picked him up immediately after the Ordeal Ceremony. IMHO it was fortunate in that Dad was an Arrowman in his youth, and did persuade the mother from going to the ceremony. But mon and dad did pick him up before he had a chance to go through new member orientation, enjoy the celebratory crackerbarrel, and pick up his new member packet of OAHB, new member handouts, and OA dangle.

You need folks who are trained in outdoor climbing. Indoor climbing gyms and rock walls are "controlled environments" and have a lot of safety feature built in. The outdoors doesn't. I've been trained as a BSA COPE and Climbing Director. Even when my cert was current and I was doing that on a regular basis, I would NOT, repeat NOT, do true climbing as there are so many variables involved, that only a properly trained person could handle the situations that may arise. BSA climbing certs only cover the basics, you really need to go outside the BSA for what you plan to do. I was fortunate in that when I was in the UK, I "absailed" off the Cliffs of Dover with some wiht many years of expereince and anyone would consider an expert on the matter. I've heard some of the stories of things he's seen happen, and not only in training and combat, but in the civilian world.

In addition to all the training recommended, I also advise the following, and for those who have been here a while, yes I am echoing KUDU. 1) Geta copy of the 3rd ed. SM handbook, both volumes. Is it dated, yes. Does it have THE foundation to the Patrol Method, YES! ( and that's for emphasis, not shouting). 2) Get yourself a comfortable camp chair and a big thermal coffee mug. 3) Begin training NOW by practicing the two phrases, " Have you asked your patrol leader?" and "Have you asked your senior patrol leader?" That you will respond to all Boy Scouts who ask you questions, except the SPL. 4) Start talkign to your SM and other ASMs to get a feel for your role. You should be there to make sure things are safe, provide transportation to events, and counsel as needed. BOY SCOUTS SHOULD BE DOIGN THINGS FOR THEMSELVES AND ADULT SHOULD NOT INTERVENE SAVE EMERGENCIES ( caps for emphasis again) 5) I've found the hardest folks to transition from a Cub Scouts to a Boy Scouts are the Cub Scout leaders. Resist the urge to get involved. 6) GOOD LUCK!

Ok I cheated and googeld but here it goes, but here it goes.In regards to ceremonies from BSA literature. YES parents, if they have a concern, can attend a ceremony. Youth Protection Guidelines for adult leaders and parents. Irving, Texas: Boy Scouts of America. 2006. "Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity ... The BSA does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program such as Order of the Arrow are open to observation by parents and leaders". BUT here is some additional stuff Order of the Arrow Handbook. Boy Scouts of America. 2008. "If after discussing the ceremony with the lodge advisor, the parent, Scout leader or religious leader continues to have questions about the content of the ceremony, that person will be permitted to read the ceremony text and view the Ordeal's ceremony training DVD. Following this, parents will be in a position to decide whether to allow their son to participate in the ceremony. Nonmembers should not attend the ceremonies." That last bit is new even to me, and probably everyone who doesn't own a 2008 OAHB, because parents, leaders, and clergy with concerns DID have the right to view a live ceremony. Now they want folks with concerns viewing the training DVDs and not attending. Grant you I am cutting and pasting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Arrow#cite_note-YPP-32 So if someone has an new OAHB, could you please verify?

As one of those Eagles who had his EBOR 1 month and 4 days after my 18th Bday, and as someone who had to counsel a scout who had to petition national to allow an EBOR since he missed the council deadline due to boot camp, everything except the letters of recommendation and the EBOR had to be cmpleted by the 18th birthday.

Who said Scouting on the adult level is democratic? In BSA literature, the COR can overrule the SM and CC because the COR represent the charter organization. the only person who can overrule the COR is the IH. The key is to get the COR trained ASAP so that they fully understand their position as COR, which is a weighty one since they vote on both the district and council level, as well as the CC position. Also the members of the committee and direct contact leaders need to be trained so that they fully understand their roles.

Well the council I grew up in was 10 parishes and 1 county large. It had a very metropolitan area, with several districts covering relatively small geographical areas ( one district was the size of a small city, three other districts divided a city), as well some very rural areas in the bayous, and some of those districts comprised 3-5 parishes. While the territory is not as large as the council I'm in now, it could take 4 hours to go from the southernmost point, Grand Isle, to the council office relatively in the center b/c of the roads and bridges. Heck you had to go through another council's territory to get to the council office. Council I'm in now is 20 counties large, and is very low population as it is largely rural. My district is the smallest with 1 county and 2 towns in another county in the district. It can take some time to get to neighboring district's events, and I think that's why we still exist as a district. It's interesting in that I can get to two other council offices faster than I can get to my own.

Base, Understand completely where you are coming from as I too beleive in the KISS principle. I'd rather money being spent on program supplies and the necessary awards than extra awards/gifts. I know my pack's CO was very generous at one time in regards to money, and it got spent. I know I have some concerns b/c our CO has stopped giving the money they use to in order to build a new youth center. But some of the now gone leaders still spent money like the old days, and we are having challenges. One reason why everyone is getting a paracord woggle, costing about $.25 each, instead of the official slides.

I too wondered at why my pack gave out compasses, and neckers and slides for that matter. It's a "tradition" is what I was told.

My pack historically gave out the neckers and slides specific for the new level, i.e. Tigers received their Wolf necker and slide, etc. For the Webelos IIs, we gave them compasses.

Actually for a very brief time, the new Boy Scout shorts/swimsuit advertised on SCOUTSTUFF.ORG did mention that the new shorts were great 'cause you could run from the waterfront in your Class B's, put on your uniform shirt and be in Class A. But that was changed after about a month or so.

Don't know if this will speed it up or not, but here is an idea. 1) After the Call Out team is assembled and start explaining the OA, Let them ask that ALL ARROWMEN come forward and form a line behind the fire. This does a few things, A) gets visibility B) forms an impressive backdrop, and C) Preps for the next step. 2) Instead of having principles get the candidates, get the members form the backdrop to get candidates from their units and present them to the chief. This A) makes sure that no one get's left behind B) speeds up the getting of candidates.

Agree it won't change much, as a new head will come about. Plus AG was a loose conglomeration to begin with. As for the Pakistani response, Lisa is correct, it will get very interesting.

If you are not sent to NCS for training, contact a national scout shop for the book. I know the Occonneechee Scout Shop in Raleigh NC has the First Year Camper book from NCS on the shelf for purchase.

Actually the BSA did have an Activity Uniform consisting of khaki short and a colored polo shirt specific to what you were: red for Boy Scouts in a troop, maroon for Boy Scouts who were members of a venture crew, now called a venture patrol, and khaki for Varsity Scouts. They were not popular and were did away with. BUT once uniform, always uniform. Also if you read current BSA lit, specifically the BSHB if memory serves, there is a description of the activity uniform which is scout socks, shorts or pants, belt, and a scout t-shirt or polo.

In my old troop in order to run for SPL, you had to be First Class or above AND have been a PL for at least 6 months (1 term). You could run for SPL as often as you wanted, so no term limits, although most folks did it for 6 months, with a few doing 12.

Several factors play into when elections are done. My district has a history of doing them in the Fall, just before the district camporee. I like it that way as we combine a camp promo and election in one nite.

Why not bring back time requirements for the T-2-1 ranks like pre-1989 days?

Back in the day, my old council had a MEGA event in which all Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Explorers attended ( I told you it was back in tha day ) my lodge ran a tomahawk toss event for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorers, and adults only, NO CUB SCOUTS. And since Webelos are still Cub Scouts, they could not do it.

In reading the article this comment hit me: Carter said Thursday at a press conference in Seoul that North Korean officials had expressed deep regret for the loss of life from two military attacks against South Korean targets in late 2010. But they did not apologize and suggested that they wouldnt, the former president said. My question is this, why would you send food to a country that has committed an open act of war? Even the Russians stopped their trains to Germany, their #1 trading partner, once it was confirmed that the Nazis invaded the USSR.

The mess we are in today in regards to the Korean Peninsula involves several factors going back over 50 years. I'm probably missing a few, it's been 7 years since I did research on the topic, but here it goes. 1) Sec State, was it Acheson, screwed up by not mentioning Korea in his speech about America's sphere of of influence. This opened the idea of an invasion by the NKs and ChiComs, with Uncle Joe's blessing (we now know via Soviet archives that Mao and Kim il Sung made a personal visit to Stalin in Moscow to discuss an invasion and get his approval although with the caveat that he would not involve combat troops). 2) War, later Defense, Deartment did not want to arm the South Koreans fearing they would try to invade the north. This was in spite of intel saying the NKs were arming themselves with the latest Soviet arms. 3) MacArthur did not train his command to a proper state of readiness. Grant you that there was a massive demand for reducing the post WWII military, but the Marines maintained combat readiness better than the army, and they faced the biggest budget cuts of the military branches. 4)I'll admit MacArthur's choice of Inchon for an amphibious landing is pure genius, but he had to use the Marines to do it. BUT MacArthur screw up royally by focusing on a symbolic target, Seoul, rather than having the Marine's cut off the NK's escape route to the north and provide the anvil to Walker's 8th Army hammer. He had the ability to do that and he wasted it trying to recapture Seoul. 5) MacArthur divided his forces, ignored intel,and made other mistakes someone from War College would know is idiocy.

I know back in the day, the BSHB and BS Field book had lists already made for patrol gear. As to patrol tents, I had the opposite experience in that those tents were taken well care of. Me personally I'd go the backpacking route, i.e. lightweight gear that is easily compacted.

BP, In reference to pros and the OA, it depends on the SE/DFS. In the council I was a youth in, I know one SE fired 2 "Professional Trainees," DEs who hadn't gone to PDL-1 yet, because they walked out of the Ordeal after the Pre-Ordeal Ceremony. He made it a requirement for the job to be a member of the OA. But when I was a DE after going to 2 OA events, I was told by my DFS "you don't need to play Indian" and not to go to any more OA events.

In regards to food shortages in NK, if memory serves we, as well as many other nations, were in fact supplying food to help. However it was discovered that the food was being sent to the NK army, and that folks were still starving as the food was NOT being distributed to the people. That's why we and other stopped the program. That and NK failed in keeping other committments, i.e. not seeking nuclear weapons.

Well my wife got me a Coleman Villa del Mar from wallyworld for a Valentine's day gift. It's a 7 man tent (3.5 with gear) and has nice head room when I stand up. While it is a PITA to put up, esp. with 3 "helpers" under the age of 5 (it does get eaasier as the helpers get older but still a pain), I've had no problems with wind or rain. This past week wind gusts was up to 60mph and there was some rain, but we had no problems. An aside, if you need a great place to camp in the Asheville,NC area, Lake Powhatan in the Pisgah National Forest is AWESOME.